Discussion
I am in a similar position to this thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Basically at the moment I have a general-purpose car, a 2007 M3. I did my first track day recently, and it made me realise that I want something a bit more economical to run at the track. My plan is to punt the M3, and get a sensible diesel estate car and a track car.
My criteria for the track car:
- Light road use (e.g. driving to work when it's raining)
- Civilised enough for my wife to use if I'm going miles away on business and want the sensible diesel car
- Cheap to run on the track; e.g. brakes, tyres, fuel
- Doesn't need to be able to cover long distances comfortably
I did think about an E36 M3 stripped out, but ultimately I don't think my wife would appreciate bucket seats etc.
As a general rule I prefer tin tops, so this puts me towards the Exige. Am I right in saying the roof is GRP and non-structural? From my reading, there doesn't seem to be much different between the Elise and Exige, just little details like aero. I am making the big assumption here that the Elise is available with the same engines as the Exige!
Finally, closest place to me seems to be Bell & Colvill. Are these the best guys to deal with as someone living in Berks, or is it worth going further afield?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Basically at the moment I have a general-purpose car, a 2007 M3. I did my first track day recently, and it made me realise that I want something a bit more economical to run at the track. My plan is to punt the M3, and get a sensible diesel estate car and a track car.
My criteria for the track car:
- Light road use (e.g. driving to work when it's raining)
- Civilised enough for my wife to use if I'm going miles away on business and want the sensible diesel car
- Cheap to run on the track; e.g. brakes, tyres, fuel
- Doesn't need to be able to cover long distances comfortably
I did think about an E36 M3 stripped out, but ultimately I don't think my wife would appreciate bucket seats etc.
As a general rule I prefer tin tops, so this puts me towards the Exige. Am I right in saying the roof is GRP and non-structural? From my reading, there doesn't seem to be much different between the Elise and Exige, just little details like aero. I am making the big assumption here that the Elise is available with the same engines as the Exige!
Finally, closest place to me seems to be Bell & Colvill. Are these the best guys to deal with as someone living in Berks, or is it worth going further afield?
I bought my Exige through Bell & Colvill as i live in Camberley they were the closest dealer to me - give Richard Dean there a call (01483) 281 000 - he's a top bloke easy to chat to & wont try & sell you something you dont want - will talk through what YOU want and discuss your options from there be it either a new or used car, whether the car will be more for road or track, etc 
Hi edb49,
This time I can help you as you inform me on the M power forum some weeks ago. I am ready to order my M3 it is just a question of weeks and business arrangement
I am coming from where you want to go.
I had a elise 111R track modified wich means Ohlins 3way adjustable suspension, exige wheels with Yokohama a048, Lotus sport brakes pads and lines, stage 1 exhaust, ITG airbox , harnesses, moroso oil pan. Basically it was an elise with the setup of the exige; Car was weighted at 862 kg on the scale of the Nurburgring, very effective on track in my amateur hands (Ok I crashed it under rain with cold tires in Spa but this is another story)
To hit your objective, the Lotus IS the best choice. Excellent chassis, "cheap" to run but "normal prices " for ugrades, almost everyday usable. Other choice could be caterham (but less usable) and errhh???
IF you plan to do Big (fast) track, the basic Elise is too short in top speed, you need a compressor exige or the new SC elise or the top choice Honda'ed powered S2 variant;
IF you plan to stay on small tracks where corners and bends are the fun (no long straights), every Elise/exige model is good. In Abbeville for exemple, a S1, my R and a hondaS2 are turning together because differences in power is negativated by set-up, weihts of the car and ability of driver.
Regarding the S vs R question, I was happy to have the more powerfull plant BUT I always tought taht the way the power was delivered was not pleasant, the kick at 6200 is very addictive and the game to stay the sweet zone (6200-8200) was Ok but in comparaison with the M3 (I tried one last WE) the powerband is quite narrow. So I would suggest to try a R and a SC before to decide.
This time I can help you as you inform me on the M power forum some weeks ago. I am ready to order my M3 it is just a question of weeks and business arrangement
I am coming from where you want to go.
I had a elise 111R track modified wich means Ohlins 3way adjustable suspension, exige wheels with Yokohama a048, Lotus sport brakes pads and lines, stage 1 exhaust, ITG airbox , harnesses, moroso oil pan. Basically it was an elise with the setup of the exige; Car was weighted at 862 kg on the scale of the Nurburgring, very effective on track in my amateur hands (Ok I crashed it under rain with cold tires in Spa but this is another story)
To hit your objective, the Lotus IS the best choice. Excellent chassis, "cheap" to run but "normal prices " for ugrades, almost everyday usable. Other choice could be caterham (but less usable) and errhh???
IF you plan to do Big (fast) track, the basic Elise is too short in top speed, you need a compressor exige or the new SC elise or the top choice Honda'ed powered S2 variant;
IF you plan to stay on small tracks where corners and bends are the fun (no long straights), every Elise/exige model is good. In Abbeville for exemple, a S1, my R and a hondaS2 are turning together because differences in power is negativated by set-up, weihts of the car and ability of driver.
Regarding the S vs R question, I was happy to have the more powerfull plant BUT I always tought taht the way the power was delivered was not pleasant, the kick at 6200 is very addictive and the game to stay the sweet zone (6200-8200) was Ok but in comparaison with the M3 (I tried one last WE) the powerband is quite narrow. So I would suggest to try a R and a SC before to decide.
21TonyK said:
I assume you mean light road use when "NOT" raining?
Don't mean to be stupid - any reason why you can't/shouldn't use an Exige in the wet as a pootling around car? I think Yoko 048s are a track focussed tyre and I assume no T/C, but that's just a case of being careful?bher said:
IF you plan to do Big (fast) track, the basic Elise is too short in top speed, you need a compressor exige or the new SC elise or the top choice Honda'ed powered S2 variant;
IF you plan to stay on small tracks where corners and bends are the fun (no long straights), every Elise/exige model is good. Regarding the S vs R question, I was happy to have the more powerfull plant BUT I always tought taht the way the power was delivered was not pleasant, the kick at 6200 is very addictive and the game to stay the sweet zone (6200-8200) was Ok but in comparaison with the M3 (I tried one last WE) the powerband is quite narrow. So I would suggest to try a R and a SC before to decide.
I had sort of set my sights on the 190bhp Exige. The 220bhp doesn't give a huge amount of extra power, so I assume the big advantage is torque.IF you plan to stay on small tracks where corners and bends are the fun (no long straights), every Elise/exige model is good. Regarding the S vs R question, I was happy to have the more powerfull plant BUT I always tought taht the way the power was delivered was not pleasant, the kick at 6200 is very addictive and the game to stay the sweet zone (6200-8200) was Ok but in comparaison with the M3 (I tried one last WE) the powerband is quite narrow. So I would suggest to try a R and a SC before to decide.
Got a few other questions that have popped into mind:
Are LSDs fairly normal?
What kind of discounts are there on new cars?
How do the brakes cope with track punishment? Will they warp etc?
How has depreciation been on Exiges historically?
I'd get a nice S1 111S, Sport 135 or Sport 160 to be honest. Good value, cheaper to have as a track car than an S2 Elise or Exige, and will fulfill all your criteria. You will get bitten by the upgrade bug, so get one that's had a lot done already if you can (suspension, brakes, induction, exhaust, tyres etc.) and save a bunch of cash.
If you are keen on buying new, what's your budget?
If you are keen on buying new, what's your budget?
S Works said:
If you are keen on buying new, what's your budget?
I am pretty open-minded. I don't want a dog, and I don't want to get something right at the top of the pile. If a new car is "right" then I'd consider one; e.g. if there are significant improvements to the 08MY cars.Out of interest, why is an older Elise cheaper to track?
If I were going by that criteria I'd be looking at an Elise - the Yokohama AD07 or Bridgestone Potenzas are a better all-round tyre plus you'd still get plenty of fun on track. You can get a hard top for them too, so you have the choice of roadster and FHC. Look at both S1 and S2 but the latter has the practical considerations that you've listed (and the hard top suits it much better IMHO)
I bought mine from Scott Walker at B&C and I can heartily recommend them for sales. Scott's a true enthusiast of the marque and will listen to what you're after rather than try to sell you whatever's not shifting at the moment.
I bought mine from Scott Walker at B&C and I can heartily recommend them for sales. Scott's a true enthusiast of the marque and will listen to what you're after rather than try to sell you whatever's not shifting at the moment.
edb49 said:
Are LSDs fairly normal?
What kind of discounts are there on new cars?
How do the brakes cope with track punishment? Will they warp etc?
How has depreciation been on Exiges historically?
1, No and not very important unless you like to track under waterWhat kind of discounts are there on new cars?
How do the brakes cope with track punishment? Will they warp etc?
How has depreciation been on Exiges historically?
2, approx 2000 euros for 50000euros car in Belgium
3, very well in standard but better pad give you a psychological advantage (
)4, They drop quickly (more than before because new models are popping every year) but never saw a good one for less than 25000 euros
The 190 bhp exige S1 is know for being a bit fragile; If you mean the 192 exige S2,you will feel slow in comparaison to other (and slower than a 192 elise)
Listen to Sworks, he knows the Lotus stuff and his english is far beter than mine
Hopefully you won't all lynch me for including a griff in this:
S1 Elise: 720kg, 150bhp
S2 Elise: 860kg, 134bhp
S2 Exige: 875kg, 190bhp
S2 Exige S: 935kg, 220bhp
VXR220: 930kg, 220bhp
From the looks of that, the S2 Elise has no benefit over the Exige for my liking. I just prefer hard tops, I think it's a psychological "what if I roll" thing, although I know fiberglass won't help me much!
Performance-wise, I really want something that is say 220bhp/tonne or more. Trying to keep an open mind, having a look through the classifieds there's some serious quick machines. E.G.:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/333403.htm
S1 Elise: 720kg, 150bhp
S2 Elise: 860kg, 134bhp
S2 Exige: 875kg, 190bhp
S2 Exige S: 935kg, 220bhp
VXR220: 930kg, 220bhp
From the looks of that, the S2 Elise has no benefit over the Exige for my liking. I just prefer hard tops, I think it's a psychological "what if I roll" thing, although I know fiberglass won't help me much!
Performance-wise, I really want something that is say 220bhp/tonne or more. Trying to keep an open mind, having a look through the classifieds there's some serious quick machines. E.G.:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/333403.htm
S Works said:
I'd get a nice S1 111S, Sport 135 or Sport 160 to be honest. Good value, cheaper to have as a track car than an S2 Elise or Exige, and will fulfill all your criteria. You will get bitten by the upgrade bug, so get one that's had a lot done already if you can (suspension, brakes, induction, exhaust, tyres etc.) and save a bunch of cash.
If you are keen on buying new, what's your budget?
The man knows his Lotus.If you are keen on buying new, what's your budget?
To put a bit of clarity, I am not looking for a car that is purely driver enjoyment and crawls around (e.g. Westfield XI) although that is some people's cup of tea. I want a car that as a base is comparable/faster than the M3 around a track.
I think I need to make a decision as to whether to go for a standard S2 Exige, or modified Honda S1 Elise. I am a bit worried if I buy a modified car it will be all too easy to keep on spending the pennies on it, but a standard car I can resist that temptation!
I think I need to make a decision as to whether to go for a standard S2 Exige, or modified Honda S1 Elise. I am a bit worried if I buy a modified car it will be all too easy to keep on spending the pennies on it, but a standard car I can resist that temptation!
It has to be said that a modified high-power S1 will probably sh1t all over a standard S2 Exige. I'm not 'giving it large', because I fully admit to not being a trackday driver. BUT it seems to me that if trackdays are your thing then you are much better going for a lighter S1 and upgrading it for a few thousand pounds. You won't get a decent Honda'd S1 for shy of £21K. I would have thought a 111S or Sport 160 on nitrons would beat an M3 on any decent twisty track? Maybe I'm talking out my arse..........I'm sure some trackday dudes will be along to correct me shortly!!!!!
Getting round a track at the same rate as an M3 really starts with your current driving style, your appetite to invest in improving and intrest in making track modifications.
Out of the box and unmodified the best track Elise I have driven is the S2 135R. I find the Exige S and S2 Exige are just too heavy even with the power and the aero can be a hinderance (e.g. wings and spitters removed for racing on faster circuits). I'm not talking power - to - weight, but real world experience and laptimes.
If your willing to make some changes e.g. adjustable dampers and semi slick tyres then the S1 Sport 160 and 111S also become interesting with their light weight, and the S2 111S is a good road/track compromise (which is why I started with one). These are extremly fast cars on track if your willing to invest the time.
Starting with a Honda Elise is an approach, but I would suggest you may spend more time managing the power than learning to maxmimise cornering (unless your already handy in mid/rear cars).
For a summary of the sort of investments you can make in handling see my article http://wiki.seloc.org/a/S2_Track_Modifications
Out of the box and unmodified the best track Elise I have driven is the S2 135R. I find the Exige S and S2 Exige are just too heavy even with the power and the aero can be a hinderance (e.g. wings and spitters removed for racing on faster circuits). I'm not talking power - to - weight, but real world experience and laptimes.
If your willing to make some changes e.g. adjustable dampers and semi slick tyres then the S1 Sport 160 and 111S also become interesting with their light weight, and the S2 111S is a good road/track compromise (which is why I started with one). These are extremly fast cars on track if your willing to invest the time.
Starting with a Honda Elise is an approach, but I would suggest you may spend more time managing the power than learning to maxmimise cornering (unless your already handy in mid/rear cars).
For a summary of the sort of investments you can make in handling see my article http://wiki.seloc.org/a/S2_Track_Modifications
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