Toyota conversion on S1?

[NDT]

OK, so Honda VTEC might be the engine of choice, but is it easier to do a Toyota conversion on a S1 using S2 111R bits?
I realise that eletrical integration might be tricky, but how difficult is the mechanical stuff?

[Boggy]

NDT said:

OK, so Honda VTEC might be the engine of choice, but is it easier to do a Toyota conversion on a S1 using S2 111R bits?
I realise that eletrical integration might be tricky, but how difficult is the mechanical stuff?

I'm afraid it's a lot of work, a friend of mine considered it

Boggy

[bogie]

even more work thank fitting a Honda ....

[Skyman]

And why even consider it for such a dull engine?

[21TonyK]

Honda or Audi, I wouldn't even think about a Toyota for a conversion (and I've got one!!)

[Skyman]

21TonyK said:

Honda or Audi, I wouldn't even think about a Toyota for a conversion (and I've got one!!)

My same point in a somewhat more helpfully expressed way!

[Gad-Westy]

Ignoring for a second the merits of each conversion, why is the Toyota a particularly difficult installation?

[Alex_S]

Gad-Westy said:

Ignoring for a second the merits of each conversion, why is the Toyota a particularly difficult installation?

I might be wrong but i think its to do with the engine mounts, as in the Honda mounts are similar to the K series whereas the Toyota's are quite a bit different hence the reason Honda conversions arent carried out on 'yota engined cars.

[miro]

Alex_S said:

Gad-Westy said:

Ignoring for a second the merits of each conversion, why is the Toyota a particularly difficult installation?

I might be wrong but i think its to do with the engine mounts, as in the Honda mounts are similar to the K series whereas the Toyota's are quite a bit different hence the reason Honda conversions arent carried out on 'yota engined cars.

The Subframe on the yota elises is different to the K's and i expect if someone was going to go to the effort of swapping out the K why go for a similar(heavier) engine .. bung another K in it its the engine the S1 was designed for or Honda it if you want more

[NDT]

Skyman said:

And why even consider it for such a dull engine?

Because a Honda conversion is 10k for 200+ reliable horsepower.
K-series is seriously stretched to make anywhere near this.
If the 111R engine could go into an S1 for lots less than 10k and make significantly more power than the K (albeit less than a VTEC) then it would be worth looking at.

[miro]

If it were a lot less then perhaps . but the likelyhood is that it will be the same if not more than the Honda. There are less VVTL-I toyotas about than there are Honda engines so i cant see the engine being cheaper to buy and there are more places that do Honda Conversions so more of the potential problems will have been sorted making it an easier job....

all based on no engineering experience and guess work. ... doesnt mean its wrong though

even it it were a couple of grand cheaper youd lose that on resale in an instant imho

[Scuffers]

problem is twofold:

1) the 111R car is nothing like the K version.. the wiring looms, the dash, the subframes, springs/dampers, rear clam, exhausts, drivetrain, gear linkage, fuel tank & pump are all different, plus a mirriad of smaller bits.
2) VVTi is not that big a power step (from a 111S K) to justify the cost (which would be way over the value of the car).

it would work out cheaper to just sell what you have and buy a 111R..

[NDT]

Scuffers said:

problem is twofold:

1) the 111R car is nothing like the K version.. the wiring looms, the dash, the subframes, springs/dampers, rear clam, exhausts, drivetrain, gear linkage, fuel tank & pump are all different, plus a mirriad of smaller bits.
2) VVTi is not that big a power step (from a 111S K) to justify the cost (which would be way over the value of the car).

it would work out cheaper to just sell what you have and buy a 111R..

thanks Scuffers, very helpful.