Yota ECU cracked?

[21TonyK]

If you've not already seen it elsewhere it looks like the start of good news for R's and Exiges.

200hp with mods

[Scuffers]

how is this different from what Lotus have been offereing for a while?

we all know the ECU is re-flashable, the question you want to ask is this, unless you can have it re-mapped to suit a specific setup, what's the point?

the real question is where whoever is doing this stands legally. The interface software to 'talk' to the ECU is Lotus's IP.....

[Anatol]

Scuffers said:

the real question is where whoever is doing this stands legally. The interface software to 'talk' to the ECU is Lotus's IP.....

Perfectly legal if they've reverse-engineered a protocol to reprogram the ECU's themselves...

Tol

[21TonyK]

Scuffers said:

the question you want to ask is this, unless you can have it re-mapped to suit a specific setup, what's the point?

I agree, as I said, this could be the "start" of good news. From what I can gather (and this is only 3rd hand info) the main point is that the self-learn element of the ECU is disabled. So, in theory, exhausts, induction, manifolds etc could start to have real effect rather than just make more noise.

Combined with the change in cam switch point this ECU flash would make more sense that the Lotus own version. If, and its a big "if", the for the mapping for the ITG and 4-2-1 is okay on a standard car. If it only works with ITG, 4-2-1 etc then it becomes an expensive option.

Be interesting to see what develops from this.

[Scuffers]

Anatol said:

Scuffers said:

the real question is where whoever is doing this stands legally. The interface software to 'talk' to the ECU is Lotus's IP.....

Perfectly legal if they've reverse-engineered a protocol to reprogram the ECU's themselves...

Tol

there's the rub.... it's not just a protocol, it's encrypted etc...
even *if* it was reverse-engineered, you are still using Lotus's IP to communicate with the ECU...

21TonyK said:

Scuffers said:

the question you want to ask is this, unless you can have it re-mapped to suit a specific setup, what's the point?

I agree, as I said, this could be the "start" of good news. From what I can gather (and this is only 3rd hand info) the main point is that the self-learn element of the ECU is disabled. So, in theory, exhausts, induction, manifolds etc could start to have real effect rather than just make more noise.

Combined with the change in cam switch point this ECU flash would make more sense that the Lotus own version. If, and its a big "if", the for the mapping for the ITG and 4-2-1 is okay on a standard car. If it only works with ITG, 4-2-1 etc then it becomes an expensive option.

Be interesting to see what develops from this.

turning off 'learning' as you put it is NOT a clever thing to do, at a simplictic level, try getting it though an MOT without closed loop running....

personally, I would want to be asking a shed load more questions about what has been done before parting with my cash.

[Gooby]

Scuffers said:

The interface software to 'talk' to the ECU is Lotus's IP.....

I have heard service centres winge that the motorsport ECU is "grumpy" and sometimes doesnt respond to interrogation from the ECU download tools.

[Gooby]

Scuffers said:

turning off 'learning' as you put it is NOT a clever thing to do, at a simplictic level, try getting it though an MOT without closed loop running....

personally, I would want to be asking a shed load more questions about what has been done before parting with my cash.

It was my understanding that the "learning aspect" was turned on by the servicing engineer, this then examins how to tune the ECU profile to the car and the style of driving. This modified profile is then applied to the engine managent. In normal engine running mode it is a reactive to the various sensors within the profile it has learnt / modified.

[Anatol]

My IP law is a little out of date, but even with DMCA-style recent changes, I don't believe there is copyright in an encryption key or algorithm. IIRC lacks the essential element of creativity. A computer program itself qualifies, and cannot be copied without consent, but it remains perfectly legal to reverse-engineer and then independently code a piece of software that does the same job, provided you don't use the original as your working source...

Tol

[Scuffers]

Anatol said:

My IP law is a little out of date, but even with DMCA-style recent changes, I don't believe there is copyright in an encryption key or algorithm. IIRC lacks the essential element of creativity. A computer program itself qualifies, and cannot be copied without consent, but it remains perfectly legal to reverse-engineer and then independently code a piece of software that does the same job, provided you don't use the original as your working source...

Tol

that's the point...

you *cannot* talk to the ECU without using this bit of software.... (it's in the ECU)

now, if you could wipe the ECU and start with new software, then fine, but how are you going to do that when you can't talk to it?

[macca77]

Is anyone actually running one of these (200bhp ECU), if so with what setup (exhaust/induction) and have they noticed any difference or even had their car on a dyno?

I'm wanting to upgrade my exhaust in the next few weeks, current favourite is a 2Bular, after that would consider induction and this ECU. I know the spiel claims that it would/should work with a number of upgraded exhaust/induction combinations but am keen to hear from people in the know and with 1st hand experience.

Thanks in advance, Mark

[bordseye]

By the time you've bought this, plus the exhaust / manifold and induction kit you will be part way to the cost of bolting on a supercharger - and just for 10bhp rather than the 30 of the SC.

Its not unreasonable to expect a modern naturally aspirated 1800 cc engine to produce 125bhp /litre or 225 in total. After all, 100 bhp/litre wasnt unknown in Colin Chapmans day. So why is the yota engine so difficult to get power out of?

[macca77]

Bordseye, I am aware that the biggest performance gain would be made using forced induction, which has already been discussed at length in this thread.

I want to purchase a different exhaust/induction system purely for the acoustics, but would then also consider an ECU upgrade to change the 2nd cam point. If I am doing this I might as well plan and get the 200bhp ECU.

The cost of all this amounts to ~£1200, significantly short of the cost of a supercharger upgrade, which would also require a new exhaust/induction system to be fitted.

[R.P.M]

I thought that the two ecu options have been available for at least 8 months on hangers website, so I don't think it's anything new.

For me, I would never consider bolting on a S/C to my car. If I had wanted a supercharged exige I would have bought one.
This ecu mod appeals to me for the same reasons the exhaust and induction mods I have had done did. It's not always purely about power increases (how much more pace do you need for the road ffs), but it's about improving the whole experience. For that reason alone I think it's good value and well worth doing.

Rpm

[coxy79]

I've had px lap round snet in an exige with this remap, to be honest I couldn't tell that much difference from my old exige which had the motorsport ECU.

[stringthing]

Don't suppose Lotus offer more than one level of re-map ?

[marshalla]

Anatol said:

My IP law is a little out of date, but even with DMCA-style recent changes, I don't believe there is copyright in an encryption key or algorithm. IIRC lacks the essential element of creativity. A computer program itself qualifies, and cannot be copied without consent, but it remains perfectly legal to reverse-engineer and then independently code a piece of software that does the same job, provided you don't use the original as your working source...

Tol

Mmmm - might be worth following up on this :
http://www.openrightsgroup.org/orgwiki/index.php/P...

[Phil-CH]

What's so new about this? The ECU from the Yota Elises/Exiges have been cracked successfully since as early as beginning of 2005. Even the more challenging MY06 and newer models (with drive-by-wire) have been cracked since soon after their release.