HELP! ELISE OR VX220?

[cheese_chaser]

Now I know this has been much debated before but the money is sat there, track days are waiting and I just cannot make up my mind between S1 Elise and a N/A VX220.

I am tempted by the VX because...
Newer vehicle AND lower mileage for the money.
More torque and BHP.
No K-series head gasket worries.
Better drive train.
16" Wheels as std.
Interior looks a bit sharper/racier to me.

I am reluctant to buy a VX because...
Tighter driver space (so I am led to believe? Not driven one yet but I'm 6'2 with a few too many pies on board)
Likely to depriciate further(?)
Road tests say VX understeers more (175 tyres on the front?)
Poor ABS
Less aftermarket/reproduction spares support, therefore more expensive to mod/replace parts(?)
Horrible airbag steering wheel (is this changeable?)

I will be using the car mostly for track days and don't want to spend more than £8k if possible.
I also want something honest as I need it to hold it's value as I've promised the wife I'd sell it if we need the money for something more important* (* What could ever be more important? But it's a provision of the permission to purchase I'm afraid!).

I know the 'telling the chicks in a pub what you drive' arguement will come out, but when you're as ugly as I am it takes a lot more than a Lotus keyring to get yourself laid. (not that I'm in that game anyway being blissfully married!). So the badge is not too much of an issue (but a Lotus is a Lotus after all).

I've driven Elises before and loved them, I just think that pretty soon after purchase, I'll be wanting more than the standard 118bhp.

So please help me PHers.
All tips, experience and views welcomed!

[crackthatoff]

lotus with 135 hp then.... sorted ... next !

[TonyHetherington]

for £8k I wonder if an S1 Elise that you'd get - quite early, relatively high mileage, especially for use on the track may frustrate you with the work you'd have to do to it to keep it in tip top shape. A relatively speaking newer VX220 may not be quite so potentially off the road.

[Grinnders]

You've answered your own question really.
"I also want something honest as I need it to hold it's value " but admitted the VX offers a "Newer vehicle AND lower mileage for the money". That must tell you something about depreciation.

[cheese_chaser]

Really good point Grinnders. My theory on Elises is that now you can get a fairly good S1 for £8k and top Elans still go for (or are advertised for/valued at) upto £6k I kind of hoped Elises had pretty much hit their bottom. Anything less than that sort of money for such a legendary car seems criminal to me. I've just sold an MX5 and they seem to have done the same thing, with even some of the really early models still fetching £2-3k and have been for a couple of years.
I just feel future values of the VX may be a bit more of a gamble.

[cheese_chaser]

Crack - like your thinking! I think a good S1 with a B&C 160 or a PTP170 conversion would swing it for me. I've missed a few recently while waiting to shift my old car to make room in the garage.

[Esprit]

You forgot:

cheese_chaser said:

I am reluctant to buy a VX because...
It's lardy (when compared to an S1)

Which surely, in a car to be used on track is an important consideration.

[cheese_chaser]

Tony - good point I was thinking the same, 4 years newer in some cases with half the milage and number of owners. God I'm sounding like a politician here, agreeing with everyone!

...I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure...

[cheese_chaser]

Esprit - I don't like the sound of 'lardy' at all. Can you embellish, have you driven both on a track?

[Gad-Westy]

I'm a big fan of the VX but if your budget is £8k tops, I'd go for a well looked after early high mileage Elise. £8k is not the very bottom rung of Elises so you should be able to find a good, well looked after car at this price. This is the very bottom of VX220 prices as far as I can tell, which might mean you'll be looking at tattier cars. The thing to bear in mind with S1 is that it isn't HGF (its a cheap fix) that you should be concerned about, it is the cost of suspension refreshment. At 50,000 miles ish the dampers in particular will be in need of replacement. The ideal thing would be to find an early S1 that's had all this done and S2 replacement dampers.

[Esprit]

cheese_chaser said:

Esprit - I don't like the sound of 'lardy' at all. Can you embellish, have you driven both on a track?

THe VX220 is noticeably heavier than an S1 in all reality. Early S1s (with MMC discs etc) come in at about 700kg dry with the later post-MMC cars being about 725kg dry (the 111S and very late cars, around '99 on, are heavier again at around 760+). Most VX220s carry more weight and I believe the lightest of these is around the 800kg mark dry?

As for having driven both on track, I had a pretty stock early S1 (exhaust/intake mods which took it to about 130bhp tops) and I never found a VX/Later Elise that could keep within a mile of me on track. The Elise's advantage is light weight, so to me if you're looking for a "toy" car and you're not too concerned over refinement and practicality, then surely it makes sense to pick the variant that has the strongest advantage in its "trump" attribute

Edited by Esprit on Monday 31st March 11:33

[cheese_chaser]

See if this helps.

Let's compare this (now advertised on Autotrader and VX220.org.uk at £8750);
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/422345.htm

to this;
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/438920.htm
(really don't want tan/cream leather if I can help it but car looks nice but std with hard top inc).

to this;
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/429383.htm
has the S2 suspension upgrade and in nice colour combo.

Which comes out on top?!

[cheese_chaser]

And thanks to Esprit, the Elise comes up the inside to steal the lead...!
Will the VX fight back???

[crackthatoff]

cheese_chaser said:

See if this helps.

Let's compare this (now advertised on Autotrader and VX220.org.uk at £8750);
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/422345.htm

to this;
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/438920.htm
(really don't want tan/cream leather if I can help it but car looks nice but std with hard top inc).

to this;
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/429383.htm
has the S2 suspension upgrade and in nice colour combo.

Which comes out on top?!

that last one looks sweet to me, good mileage (better to be used a bit than stood for years) and already has the suspension upgrade, go take a look bet you a fiver you buy it if its in good nick !

[cheese_chaser]

Cheers crack, others please note, my budget has just gone down to £7995...!

[clarencegi77]

QUOTE- I also want something honest as I need it to hold it's value as I've promised the wife I'd sell it if we need the money for something more important* (* What could ever be more important? But it's a provision of the permission to purchase I'm afraid!).
yes, yes... what could possibly BE more important? can't believe i'm saying this but its the VX220 for you then? it's gonna be way easier to sell that, selling the elise is just impossible!

[Gad-Westy]

cheese_chaser said:

Cheers crack, others please note, my budget has just gone down to £7995...!

£8,005

That Azure car looks great value. The only thing you may find dissapointing on S1's is seat comfort but this is easily sorted so don't let it put you off.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 31st March 12:17

[cheese_chaser]

I drive about 60-70k per year in a 5 series with Chesterfield-like armchair seats.
I want a weekend toy that makes me feel like I'm doing all the work so seat comfort is not an issue!
Thanks for your advice on suspension refreshment by the way. I had factored it in as a 'desirable' but on your advice upgraded it to 'must have' status!

[Gad-Westy]

cheese_chaser said:

I drive about 60-70k per year in a 5 series with Chesterfield-like armchair seats.
I want a weekend toy that makes me feel like I'm doing all the work so seat comfort is not an issue!
Thanks for your advice on suspension refreshment by the way. I had factored it in as a 'desirable' but on your advice upgraded it to 'must have' status!

The thing about the seats is that the 111s and the standard seat are of exactly the same construction, shell etc... but the 111s seat has a small amount of padding in the lower back and arse area which makes the difference between chronic back ache and a genuinely comfortable seat. You'd never beleive the difference it makes until you try it for yourself.

[Cuzza]

Buy a Caterham like this one http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/431766.htm

Faster than any £8k Elise or VX on track and road
You can't get more driver involvement
You could probably sell it in a years time and lose virtually nothing