RS Performance V8 in an Elise

[boomerkk]

Hi,

We've seen that the RS Performance V8 (formerly RST-V8) is going into the Caterham and also the Ariel Atom. It was going into the Caparo until recently.

Any chance of some wealthy bloke plonking it into an Elise or Exige?

Just wondering.

[Gad-Westy]

I thought it had already been done in the early days of development.

[Scuffers]

Gad-Westy said:

I thought it had already been done in the early days of development.

simple answer, no, and why bother?

there is a very good reason it's not in the Caparo...

[Silent1]

There's a good reason it's not in race cars either any more.

[shangani]

All that aside from the cost of the gearbox you would need.

A very expensive way of getting 360 odd bhp which you could do in several other ways for a lot less.

[boomerkk]

i thought it made 500+ horsies?

anyway, agreed. must be a good reason caparo dropped it.
perhaps too good to be true for such a superlight engine to make all that big power.

[Scuffers]

boomerkk said:

i thought it made 500+ horsies?

anyway, agreed. must be a good reason caparo dropped it.
perhaps too good to be true for such a superlight engine to make all that big power.

in their dreams...

in all the years it's been touted about, I have yet to see a single credible dyno plot from one (and consider it's been well over 3 years since the caterham was done).

at the end of the day, it's a great idea, and some people have got the concept to work (radical etc), but they all fall down in two key area's

1) cost - on paper they should be quite cheap, lot of commom components from OEM bins, the reality is they are well over £20K (actaully pushing £30K by the time you have finnished).
2) they are just not making the power prommised.

now, at this kind of money, you might as well go buy a proper race bread engine, like the DFV (as Caparo have done), even Radical with the LMP car went with Judd for the engine rather than their own V8.

[shangani]

The over 500 bhp figure was for a supercharged version of the RST which as far as I am aware was never really made to work properly / reliably. At the end of the day, as scuffers said, the Cosworth DFV isn't much heavier and is about the most tried and tested solution of a V8 engine if that was what someone wanted (someone with lots of money to throw at the idea)

I wonder what that one-off lotus sport Exige 300RR that went to Malaysia would have been like with a serious DFV variant in the back.

/Goes out to buy lotto ticket.

[boomerkk]

cheers guys.

while we're (or is it just me) talking about fairies, i've been a follower of the Le Mans series on both sides of the ditch and have always been a fan of the 2.0 turbo 4-pot engine of the LMP2s built by AER.

it's the smallest engine in the series but seriously punches far above its weight. makes big power but reliably and looks to have a good delivery curve.
it also looks fairly simple for a race engine.

now i'm not mechanically-trained but i've previously enquired at AER on how much would their engine be for a privateer racing team and they responded with something like 60k or something, far above the engine budget.

but 3-4 years on now, i just wonder whether someone with deep pockets and the right connection can source a used one from some racing team, recondition it and put it in a road car.... maybe a racing elise... just because it's there, to quote Hillary

[nsm3]

boomerkk said:

... just because it's there, to quote Hillary

I think it was George Leigh Mallory

[RobM77]

It'd be great to see such an engine in an Elise. The Caterham R400 and R500 have 440 and 521bhp/tonne respectively, and give great performance. It'd be wonderful to see that sort of performance in the more modern and capable mid engined chassis of an Elise or Exige. I'm not sure how the RST's probable lack of torque would get on hefting a 900kg car around, but still, the Elise platform would be superb with such an engine I think

I thought I heard rumours a few years ago that Andy Walsh was putting one in an Elise?

[Scuffers]

boomerkk said:

cheers guys.

while we're (or is it just me) talking about fairies, i've been a follower of the Le Mans series on both sides of the ditch and have always been a fan of the 2.0 turbo 4-pot engine of the LMP2s built by AER.

it's the smallest engine in the series but seriously punches far above its weight. makes big power but reliably and looks to have a good delivery curve.
it also looks fairly simple for a race engine.

now i'm not mechanically-trained but i've previously enquired at AER on how much would their engine be for a privateer racing team and they responded with something like 60k or something, far above the engine budget.

but 3-4 years on now, i just wonder whether someone with deep pockets and the right connection can source a used one from some racing team, recondition it and put it in a road car.... maybe a racing elise... just because it's there, to quote Hillary

the AER engine will cost you somewhat more than £60K - I think that's the cost of a lease on one for the 24H (LMP engines tend to be leased not brought).

the reason the AER does well is not to do with power or weight, it's down to fuel efficency, for the restrictors it's given (compared with the NA engines) it is more economical over the stint times at Le-Mans.

also, consider this is a race engine, about as much use in a road car as a chocolate kettle.

RobM77 said:

I thought I heard rumours a few years ago that Andy Walsh was putting one in an Elise?

it was a pipe dream, Sinclares got suckered into putting some money out to do this, but it never got any further than a dummy engine mock up.

in reality, there is noting wrong with the idea, a 2.5-3L V8 would be great, the issues are costs, gearbox, and space (unless you do a 300RR and drag the wheelbase out, turn the engine round and fit a transaxle).

then we get to the sticky subject of what engine?

DFV/DFR/XB's are all well and good, but they are hardly road car stuff, assumign you build one with more mild cams etc, then it's not goign to make the power, and also it's service life will be interesting.

if you look at production stuff, there are very few high reving V8's out there, and none of them can make big BHP/l becuase to do so somewhat limit's their life and use.

[Gooby]

boomerkk said:

Hi,

We've seen that the RS Performance V8 (formerly RST-V8) is going into the Caterham and also the Ariel Atom. It was going into the Caparo until recently.

Any chance of some wealthy bloke plonking it into an Elise or Exige?

Just wondering.

Walshy did it. The supercharged version. It was never put on the track because of "sponsorship problems". He had one in a caterham which a few BoLOCs got to PAX. He was no longer racing the beast because the chassis would flex under acceleration and the tyres would deform so much they would damage the mud guards.

Walshy is currently racing a 2-11...

[Scuffers]

Gooby said:

Walshy did it. The supercharged version. It was never put on the track because of "sponsorship problems".

that's rubbish, it never happened, as in did not exsist, as in fiction.

as I said above, the nearest it got was a mock-up in Sinclares camel car.

[Gooby]

Scuffers said:

Gooby said:

Walshy did it. The supercharged version. It was never put on the track because of "sponsorship problems".

that's rubbish, it never happened, as in did not exsist, as in fiction.

as I said above, the nearest it got was a mock-up in Sinclares camel car.

... Ookay. ..

Not what we were told but youre the pro...

[bogie]

hes right - it never happened...Walshy drove the Caterham with it in, and apparently, even that was undriveable without the traction control on

I was waiting to see it in an Elise too, as were many others, but it never happened

there are other 500bhp Elises in the world though, if thats what you so desire

[piooly]

bogie said:

hes right - it never happened...Walshy drove the Caterham with it in, and apparently, even that was undriveable without the traction control on

I was waiting to see it in an Elise too, as were many others, but it never happened

there are other 500bhp Elises in the world though, if thats what you so desire

I was lucky to be taken out in that caterham and it was the like being strapped to a bolt of lightning. Dont think I will go in anything quicker in my life. Its was rediculous and totally un controlable ....... I still love on though lol

[anonymous-user]

piooly said:

bogie said:

hes right - it never happened...Walshy drove the Caterham with it in, and apparently, even that was undriveable without the traction control on

I was waiting to see it in an Elise too, as were many others, but it never happened

there are other 500bhp Elises in the world though, if thats what you so desire

I was lucky to be taken out in that caterham and it was the like being strapped to a bolt of lightning. Dont think I will go in anything quicker in my life. Its was rediculous and totally un controlable ....... I still love on though lol

I was marshalling at North Weald when he competed it in the SELOC sprint on a damp course. Bloody scary watching Walshy fighting to keep it straight as it rapidly squirmed its way towards the turn. Felt like the lightning was wobbily aimed at us on the post. =:-0

[RobM77]

It's worth pointing out that in 1967 Formula 1 cars had 400bhp from high revving V8s and weighed about 500kg. The tyres were also not a patch on what we have nowadays.

[Foolish Dave]

RobM77 said:

It's worth pointing out that in 1967 Formula 1 cars had 400bhp from high revving V8s and weighed about 500kg. The tyres were also not a patch on what we have nowadays.

And they had one for practice, one qualifying and one for the race - all were rebuilt after a weekend of use... Oh, and a fatalities were a lot more common.

I was talking to RSV about getting one of their engines a couple of years ago - 13k for a stock 2l engine running 350bhp on carbs. They were looking at ECUs etc for full fuel mapping and getting 400bhp.
I was looking at a supercharger for it but the compression ratio is pretty high and the engine fail rate was quite high so really didn't need any extra pressure.

Edited by Foolish Dave on Monday 19th May 11:13