elise r - toyota engine version.

[bordseye]

On the cusp of buying one and would like some idea of running costs and reliability. Specifically:
how many mpg on average?
service costs and frequency. do you use a lotus dealer or a specialist
what do the tyres cost?
what repairs has your car needed?

I'm hoping that the Toyota engine - even one that revs to 8k - will be totally reliable. Is that realistic?

Incidentally, whats the voting for the r against the s in every day use. I've tried both and love the rush that the r gives, but being realistic there isnt that much use for the extra power on our roads and planning on keeping my license. Or to put it another way, the r comes into its own when you get well above 70mph and into ban territory.

[Beachbum]

bordseye said:

On the cusp of buying one and would like some idea of running costs and reliability. Specifically:
how many mpg on average?
service costs and frequency. do you use a lotus dealer or a specialist
what do the tyres cost?
what repairs has your car needed?

I'm hoping that the Toyota engine - even one that revs to 8k - will be totally reliable. Is that realistic?

Incidentally, whats the voting for the r against the s in every day use. I've tried both and love the rush that the r gives, but being realistic there isnt that much use for the extra power on our roads and planning on keeping my license. Or to put it another way, the r comes into its own when you get well above 70mph and into ban territory.

Running costs in comparision to most cars are low and stupidly low in comparison to cars of the same ilk and/or performance
Around town I get approx 32-34mpg, open road sedate driving I have manged over 40. Driven hard it can drop below 20.
Servicing can be stupid prices at Main Dealers, independents can vary greatly, but still cheaper than Main dealers. Lowest A service cost from an independent is about £115.
Tyres as ever vary. Bridgestones were the original fitted tyres to the earlier models and I think cost about £120 each. Yoko Advans have been fitted to the later models and are tad more expensive I beleive. Bridgestones last longer, Yok's give more grip. Your choice.
Repairs vary. So far mine has had a new steering rack and needs the central locking fixed and it 3.5yrs old

Engine is pretty reliable, some horror stories around, but I doubt you could say more than any other car really, similar to the HGF paranoia, that goes with the K-Series. Most issues with the Yota engine seem to be overcome by ensuring that the Oil level never drops below about 80% full

[dubsey]

i went for the S based on the fact that for my budget I could have a much younger model, lower miles and cheaper insurance.

Also like you say the 150mph against the 131mph of the S is niether here nor there on public roads. I love the acceleration side of things (S = 5.1, R = 4.9) also 1 second difference 0 - 100 so again not alot in it. As for the handling the R was amazing but then again my S does the exact same thing!!

I am far less knowledgeable than most on this site, I'm sure, but those are my opinions based on my recent buying and testing experiences.

Hope that helps a little...

[bordseye]

thanks both. where did you get the 0 to 100 figs from dubsey. i would have thought that the difference was much greater but I suppose that if the s is lower geared then they could be close.

whats the story on the oil level then? is it people neglecting the car, or is the baffling in the sump not sufficient? either way the rack should be cheap since its not power assisited but then it shouldnt go wrong for the same reason.

[Beachbum]

I think it is something do do with cavitation, but I'll leave it upto the experts to explain the details
The steering rack sheered a tooth and it was left floating in the oil. Got caught once and that was enough, to the Dealers and they wouldnt let me drive away in it, not that I was going to.

[Phil-CH]

bordseye said:

thanks both. where did you get the 0 to 100 figs from dubsey. i would have thought that the difference was much greater but I suppose that if the s is lower geared then they could be close.

I'm guessing directly from Lotus PR devision.

bordseye said:

whats the story on the oil level then? is it people neglecting the car, or is the baffling in the sump not sufficient? either way the rack should be cheap since its not power assisited but then it shouldnt go wrong for the same reason.

With sticky tyres, it's easily possible to starv the engine from oil in very tight corners, especially when the oil isn't filled to the max. If you intend to track the car on sticky tyres, getting a baffled oil sump is highly recommended. For road use, you shouldn't have any problems, unless you happen to drive with low levels of oil and pushing it through very tight corners.

Apart from that, the Toyota is very reliable. Just don't buzz the engine (mechanical over-revving of the car by a down shift into a lower gear at very high rpm).

[Cino]

dubsey said:

i went for the S based on the fact that for my budget I could have a much younger model, lower miles and cheaper insurance.

Also like you say the 150mph against the 131mph of the S is niether here nor there on public roads. I love the acceleration side of things (S = 5.1, R = 4.9) also 1 second difference 0 - 100 so again not alot in it.

True that the top end speed is mostly irrelevant, but that figure for the S 0-60 is for the K series 111S. The Toyota engined S does it in 5.8, so almost a second's difference. The R is just over a second slower than a Ferrari F430 to 60, to put it in perspective. The R is also over 4 seconds quicker to 100 - 13.2 secs as opposed to 17.4. Figures are official from Lotus. The S is like the R below 6000 rpm - still a quick capable car but without that crazy side at high revs. Anyone who says that you can't use the second cam much on the road hasn't spent much time in one is all I can say

Edited by Cino on Wednesday 21st May 20:57

[NathanE]

The Toyota 134hp car takes 18 sec to 100.

Not sure where the 14 sec came from.

111R with 189hp motor does it in 13 sec.

[dubsey]

Sorry if I was unclear. I was talking about the 111S K series agains the 111r Toyota.

Those were my options and I tested both. As I said performance figures very similar. I think I am right in saying the 111s does 0 - 100 in 14 (0.8 secs slower than the R)

If you are only interested in a Yota though I would have to go the R as the difference in power between the R and S as others have stated is quite a bit.

[kambites]

Yeah the 111S isn't much slower than the 111R; if you compare the power to weight ratios rather than outright power, there's only 15bhp/tonne in it and the 111S has a far flatter torque curve. The 111R feels quicker though because it gives you a bigger shove in the back when it's on the high lift cam.

Personally I chose the K-series over the Toyota because I didn't like the power delivery of the Toyota - the 111S is a much easier car to drive fast.

[dubsey]

Totally agree.

[S Works]

Forget the numbers which Lotus puts out (none has ever been proven to be anywhere near reality). On track, and on road, a well driven 111S vs. a 111R will be very close as the power/weight ratio's are very similar (197bhp/ton vs. 223bhp/ton).

On track, again they are very similar. On a novice track day at Brands Hatch in my Sport 160, I was almost exactly the same pace as an S2 111S and an S2 111R.

[peter450]

Lotus official figures are normally fair, in the case of the 111r i've seen independant quoted figures from differant magazines ranging from 4.6 to 5.5 and 12.8 to 14.1 to 60 and 100 respectively

Lotus did initially totaly over egg the 0 - 60 on there supercharged exiges, 240r/S/Cup, with sub 4 sec times quoted, but aside from this blip there normally fair indicators

But as always it's relative and on the road you can probably add at least 1 or 2 seconds to those times, best indicator of performance is usually the time through the gears, 30 - 70 or 30 - 90 even better, since thats readily by anyone and shows just how much overtaking shove the car has

[dubsey]

I would say the 111S is a pretty car to 60. What are the opinions on it say for the above mentioned 30- 90. Would more run of the mill cars start beating it - say Leon Cupra, ST focus etc??

[bogie]

I would say an S2111S with 160bhp etc is ok up to the ton on the motorway, with hot hatches etc. Where you start to notice it is when you are in the ELise and revving the nuts off it...but the gar in the German auto repmobile with big engine has just twitched his foot and gone quite easily. The Elise isnt about big speeds from say 90mph upwards - if you do want an ELise that can hold its own at motorway speeds (in Gerrmany of course!) then you need a Honda or Audi conversion and 300bhp+

[bordseye]

dubsey said:

I would say the 111S is a pretty car to 60. What are the opinions on it say for the above mentioned 30- 90. Would more run of the mill cars start beating it - say Leon Cupra, ST focus etc??

What do you mean "beating it"? If you mean faster in a straight line, then no doubt there are lots of cars faster. But who wants a Seat or (god forbid) a Ford?

If you mean round a windey track, then few cars short of the supercars will do so. But again does that matter? Roads arent for racing on, except for those who are a bit unsure of themselves.

Worrying about the speed of your car is like worrying about the size of your ......... For children.

[dubsey]

True. I certainly did not buy mine for high speeds. My thrill comes from the acceleration of a car which for the money the Elise does very well.

Just wondered if something like an ST Focus would embarass me if I tried to beat it up to 70 say.

Not been out in mine for two weeks now!! So annoying, good thing is not driving it often means the thrill feels new every time!

[jollygreen]

dubsey said:

True. I certainly did not buy mine for high speeds. My thrill comes from the acceleration of a car which for the money the Elise does very well.

Just wondered if something like an ST Focus would embarass me if I tried to beat it up to 70 say.

Not been out in mine for two weeks now!! So annoying, good thing is not driving it often means the thrill feels new every time!

Mate, no Elise driver will ever feel embarassed by a Focus - even if your car is slower in a straight line...

[peter450]

dubsey said:

True. I certainly did not buy mine for high speeds. My thrill comes from the acceleration of a car which for the money the Elise does very well.

Just wondered if something like an ST Focus would embarass me if I tried to beat it up to 70 say.

Not been out in mine for two weeks now!! So annoying, good thing is not driving it often means the thrill feels new every time!

I doubt very much you will be beaten to 70, accelerating from lower speeds the elise picks up momentum very quickly, past 70/80 i think the ST would likely be = or faster and past 100 you can forget it

[LivinLaVidaLotus]

I dropped an ASBO from 25 up to 70-err-ish a few weeks ago, it wasn't very far behind though - in my defence, I was in 3rd, didn't drop it to 2nd, if I had, then it wouldn't have kept as close.