VW 914 / Elise Coming
Discussion
Gad-Westy said:
I quite like the idea in principa. 1.4 TSFI engine sounds ideal for this sort of car, High mpg, low Co2. Don't like the sound of DSG much though. And I'm very suspicious about how much this is likely to weigh.
if this goes the way I think, then Lotus will have a very real problem...think about it, an R4 with a 280-300Bhp engine, under 1000Kg's, DSG, etc etc, where does that leave an Elise/Exige?
even worse the 1.4TSFI one will go heads up with a Elise S (and likley kill it on CO2/perfomenace/etc)
no dodgy build quality, proper 3 year warentee's, very decent engines and gearbox's, aimed at the mainstream market, and likley somewhat cheaper...
TTwiggy said:
Don't worry - it'll be turned into an understeering pile of junk by the safety bods at VAG...
Sounds rather complacent and i seriously doubt it old chum. Its likely to wear a porker badge in some forms to drop P´s average CO2 in their vehicle matrix. Lotus has gone the route of bringing out more and more models and giving themselves more and more production headaches, when really they should be concentrating on the Elise first and developing higher volume.
10 year (exterior) model cycles is why the volume is low. Still this aint out for 3 years yet.
bencollins said:
TTwiggy said:
Don't worry - it'll be turned into an understeering pile of junk by the safety bods at VAG...
Sounds rather complacent and i seriously doubt it old chum. Its likely to wear a porker badge in some forms to drop P´s average CO2 in their vehicle matrix. Lotus has gone the route of bringing out more and more models and giving themselves more and more production headaches, when really they should be concentrating on the Elise first and developing higher volume.
10 year (exterior) model cycles is why the volume is low. Still this aint out for 3 years yet.
TTwiggy said:
bencollins said:
TTwiggy said:
Don't worry - it'll be turned into an understeering pile of junk by the safety bods at VAG...
Sounds rather complacent and i seriously doubt it old chum. Its likely to wear a porker badge in some forms to drop P´s average CO2 in their vehicle matrix. Lotus has gone the route of bringing out more and more models and giving themselves more and more production headaches, when really they should be concentrating on the Elise first and developing higher volume.
10 year (exterior) model cycles is why the volume is low. Still this aint out for 3 years yet.
the current VX Polo (you know, a 4 seat car in steel etc etc) is listed as 1016Kg's, all the previous versions were well under 1,000Kg's, the Fox is down as 978Kg's, the Seat Ibiza is 1040Kg's etc etc etc...
consider these are not exactly designed as lightweight sports cars and then compare them with the current Exige S's kerb weight...
Scuffers said:
TTwiggy said:
bencollins said:
TTwiggy said:
Don't worry - it'll be turned into an understeering pile of junk by the safety bods at VAG...
Sounds rather complacent and i seriously doubt it old chum. Its likely to wear a porker badge in some forms to drop P´s average CO2 in their vehicle matrix. Lotus has gone the route of bringing out more and more models and giving themselves more and more production headaches, when really they should be concentrating on the Elise first and developing higher volume.
10 year (exterior) model cycles is why the volume is low. Still this aint out for 3 years yet.
the current VX Polo (you know, a 4 seat car in steel etc etc) is listed as 1016Kg's, all the previous versions were well under 1,000Kg's, the Fox is down as 978Kg's, the Seat Ibiza is 1040Kg's etc etc etc...
consider these are not exactly designed as lightweight sports cars and then compare them with the current Exige S's kerb weight...
The original Elise was less than 800kg because it was very very basic, but as we know, when a wider market starts to think about handing over more than £25k for a car, they start demanding a few toys, and that means weight...
TTwiggy said:
fair point, but i'd imagine that those quoted figures are for small-engined 'poverty-spec' models.
The original Elise was less than 800kg because it was very very basic, but as we know, when a wider market starts to think about handing over more than £25k for a car, they start demanding a few toys, and that means weight...
All true enough, but consider that VAG are the company that gave the world the Veron, do you really think it would be hard for them to come up with a light, open top sports car?The original Elise was less than 800kg because it was very very basic, but as we know, when a wider market starts to think about handing over more than £25k for a car, they start demanding a few toys, and that means weight...
This is why Lotus are focusing on the Evora and Esprit, The elise opened up a whole new market segment for lotus, (90s elan sort of led the way), and while the elise has been very good for Lotus it's a niche product and while lotus have had the market all to themselves the current drive for eco friendly cars mean bigger car makers are now taking note.
While i think lotus will always have a presence in this segment, i think it's important lotus don't neglect there traditional market of supercars and sports cars, the 90s Elan & subsequent Elise opened lotus up to whole new market with price tags considerablely lower than previous Lotus cars, but it's important that they develope that market in addition to and not at the expense of there other cars.
While i think lotus will always have a presence in this segment, i think it's important lotus don't neglect there traditional market of supercars and sports cars, the 90s Elan & subsequent Elise opened lotus up to whole new market with price tags considerablely lower than previous Lotus cars, but it's important that they develope that market in addition to and not at the expense of there other cars.
TTwiggy said:
Scuffers said:
TTwiggy said:
bencollins said:
TTwiggy said:
Don't worry - it'll be turned into an understeering pile of junk by the safety bods at VAG...
Sounds rather complacent and i seriously doubt it old chum. Its likely to wear a porker badge in some forms to drop P´s average CO2 in their vehicle matrix. Lotus has gone the route of bringing out more and more models and giving themselves more and more production headaches, when really they should be concentrating on the Elise first and developing higher volume.
10 year (exterior) model cycles is why the volume is low. Still this aint out for 3 years yet.
the current VX Polo (you know, a 4 seat car in steel etc etc) is listed as 1016Kg's, all the previous versions were well under 1,000Kg's, the Fox is down as 978Kg's, the Seat Ibiza is 1040Kg's etc etc etc...
consider these are not exactly designed as lightweight sports cars and then compare them with the current Exige S's kerb weight...
The original Elise was less than 800kg because it was very very basic, but as we know, when a wider market starts to think about handing over more than £25k for a car, they start demanding a few toys, and that means weight...
Look at the Scirocco I drive in my profile.
900kgs.
Steel shell
Iron engine block
Steel beam rear axle with drum brakes
15" steel wheels with a steel spare
HEAVY front seats
How the hell have we ended up where an Elise with an alloy chassis and fibreglass bodywork is the same weight as that old thing?
I think the Toyota engines aren't helping. Yes, they may have improved warranty claims and offered 190hp from a stock engine but they're very heavy. The subframe holding them is twice the weight as a K series subframe but not as stiff and the Toyota exhausts are a ridiculous weight.
TTwiggy said:
well maybe, but personally i'd be surprised if the VAG group could actually bring a vehicle in under the magic 1000kg mark while still offering all the creature comforts and driving aids that their customers expect (whether they be VW/Audi/Porsche customers...)
dont see why - merc did it with the smart roadster. OK they didnt use a good gearbox system and the engine could have done with another cylinder and 400 more cc, but the car handled well and power apart was just as much fun to drive on a windey road as an elise. we've got both of them so can compare.10 or more years on and vw could do a better job without doubt. but its unlikely to be a competitor for the elise any more than the mr2 really was.
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