More power for an Europa S ? Need advice pls.
Discussion
Hello,
my name is Frank and I´m a german PH and british car fanatic .
Actually I drive a TVR but
curing the last weeks I felt in love with the
Europa S.
But after a testdrive I think it
needs more power in any case.
The problem is, nobody here is able to modifiy the car
so please help me to find a good garage in GB.
Thank you again
cheers
Frank
my name is Frank and I´m a german PH and british car fanatic .
Actually I drive a TVR but
curing the last weeks I felt in love with the
Europa S.
But after a testdrive I think it
needs more power in any case.
The problem is, nobody here is able to modifiy the car
so please help me to find a good garage in GB.
Thank you again
cheers
Frank
Hi Frank
there are a couple of points. Firstly there are two specs of ECU mapping. The first give under 200hp, the second over 225 hp which is a useful step. Make sure the car you drove had the 225 upgrade.
Secondly the engines loosen up with age. Mine has done over 8000 miles and seems to be getting quicker all the time.
Thirdly the engines do vary on when the boost comes in. There should be a step in power ~ 3500rpm so for really rapid progress you will need to keep the revs above this.
And forthly the Miltek exhaust is a good upgrade. Here is a link for a supplier
http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/Lotus_Eu... This should give another 25hp.
You could also chip the car to up the boost but the power curve will start to look pretty lumpy which wont be great in the wet.
Also any tuning on the Vauxhall VX220 turbo will work on the Europa so do a search on this one on the net. If you really go mad and fit a chargecooler you could get over 300hp, but it will cost.
have fun
C43
there are a couple of points. Firstly there are two specs of ECU mapping. The first give under 200hp, the second over 225 hp which is a useful step. Make sure the car you drove had the 225 upgrade.
Secondly the engines loosen up with age. Mine has done over 8000 miles and seems to be getting quicker all the time.
Thirdly the engines do vary on when the boost comes in. There should be a step in power ~ 3500rpm so for really rapid progress you will need to keep the revs above this.
And forthly the Miltek exhaust is a good upgrade. Here is a link for a supplier
http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/Lotus_Eu... This should give another 25hp.
You could also chip the car to up the boost but the power curve will start to look pretty lumpy which wont be great in the wet.
Also any tuning on the Vauxhall VX220 turbo will work on the Europa so do a search on this one on the net. If you really go mad and fit a chargecooler you could get over 300hp, but it will cost.
have fun
C43
Hi again,
first thanks a lot for your help.
I already spoke to a few "tuners" here which are doing the vx220 turbo.
The problem is, the Europa has a different engine ecu.
The technicians said, it has a special encoded lotus software on
and they are not able to access or even read it out.
Maybe you can tell me somebody in GB who offers those chip updates.
Bye
Frank
first thanks a lot for your help.
I already spoke to a few "tuners" here which are doing the vx220 turbo.
The problem is, the Europa has a different engine ecu.
The technicians said, it has a special encoded lotus software on
and they are not able to access or even read it out.
Maybe you can tell me somebody in GB who offers those chip updates.
Bye
Frank
FrankS. said:
Oh yes,
thought Thorney only sells exhausts.
Greatings
Frank
The only ECU upgrade around at the moment for the Europa is the Lotus one (Thorney don't offer this any more), taking the car up to 225bhp. I'll let you know how much difference it makes subjectively tomorrow evening - as mine is being done by Stratton Motor Company tomorrow :-)thought Thorney only sells exhausts.
Greatings
Frank
Thorney will supply and fit the Milltek exhaust which, on top of the Lotus ECU upgrade, is supposed to make around 250bhp. The car should feel pretty rapid with 250bhp... but still is unlikely to match your TVR (assuming it is one of the Speed 6 cars or an AJP8). I went from T350 to Europa, and although the TVR is clearly quicker (350bhp vs 200bhp and only 100Kg heavier...) I would say the Europa is more fun as you can really work the engine and 'get into the groove' more easily, and more often, than in the TVR. Handles better too. Do miss my Speed 6 on occasion though...
Hope this helps you with your decision... personally, I can't recommend the Europa highly enough.
Cheers,
Jerry
Yes it´s a really good going RHD T350
and that´s
where the problem begins.
I heared about those really fast vx220 whith around and even more
than 300HP. I hoped, that I´ll be able to get the same power out of the
Europe ;(
I allready have a supplier for a colplete new exhaust,a new turbo, an larger
intercooler and etc. but no one for the ECU part.
Maybe I´ll ask the lotus guys if they´ll send me a copy of the engine software
so my garage can convert it. Later on I will send them the ecu and the finish custom software and they fit it on the ecu.
In my opinion the are not willing to do this
Cheers
Frank
and that´s where the problem begins.
I heared about those really fast vx220 whith around and even more
than 300HP. I hoped, that I´ll be able to get the same power out of the
Europe ;(
I allready have a supplier for a colplete new exhaust,a new turbo, an larger
intercooler and etc. but no one for the ECU part.
Maybe I´ll ask the lotus guys if they´ll send me a copy of the engine software
so my garage can convert it. Later on I will send them the ecu and the finish custom software and they fit it on the ecu.
In my opinion the are not willing to do this
Cheers
Frank
FrankS
only my opinion by I always think Lotus cars are about how easy they are to drive fast and slide around corners due to chassis balance rather than outright power. Unless you are going to race then 250hp in a Europa should be more than fun. I have 225hp and on twisty roads it will keep up with anything. Even in Germany against M3 or 996 the little Lotus will give a good battle. If you want a car for straight line performance then the Lotus wont be the best.
cheers
Christian
only my opinion by I always think Lotus cars are about how easy they are to drive fast and slide around corners due to chassis balance rather than outright power. Unless you are going to race then 250hp in a Europa should be more than fun. I have 225hp and on twisty roads it will keep up with anything. Even in Germany against M3 or 996 the little Lotus will give a good battle. If you want a car for straight line performance then the Lotus wont be the best.
cheers
Christian
FrankS. said:
Yes it´s a really good going RHD T350 and that´s
where the problem begins.
I heared about those really fast vx220 whith around and even more
than 300HP. I hoped, that I´ll be able to get the same power out of the
Europe ;(
I allready have a supplier for a colplete new exhaust,a new turbo, an larger
intercooler and etc. but no one for the ECU part.
Maybe I´ll ask the lotus guys if they´ll send me a copy of the engine software
so my garage can convert it. Later on I will send them the ecu and the finish custom software and they fit it on the ecu.
In my opinion the are not willing to do this
Cheers
Frank
Picked up the upgraded Europa today - there is a huge difference! The car feels much livelier with a very pleasant surge in power at around 3.5K. Not really driven it in anger yet due to the lousy weather but I'm looking forward to trying it out a bit more on some dry roads... Only down side of the upgrade seems to be a bit more lag at low revs, but this problem should never really manifest itself if the car is driven properly! and that´s where the problem begins.
I heared about those really fast vx220 whith around and even more
than 300HP. I hoped, that I´ll be able to get the same power out of the
Europe ;(
I allready have a supplier for a colplete new exhaust,a new turbo, an larger
intercooler and etc. but no one for the ECU part.
Maybe I´ll ask the lotus guys if they´ll send me a copy of the engine software
so my garage can convert it. Later on I will send them the ecu and the finish custom software and they fit it on the ecu.
In my opinion the are not willing to do this
Cheers
Frank
The upgraded discs look cool too, but seem to offer no discernible improvement in braking feel or force. The brakes remain one of the more disappointing aspects of the Europa IMO.
HTH
Cheers
Jerry
FYI if thorney have stopped mapping ECUs I know certain lotus dealers can do the "superchips" map which i beleive Thorneys was based on (mentioned on their tuning europa webpage). As I was offered it.
Allegedly it gives more top end than the lotus 225bhp ecu. without a back to back comparison on a RR its subjective.
Allegedly it gives more top end than the lotus 225bhp ecu. without a back to back comparison on a RR its subjective.
I owned the origional Thorney development car which the map was worked on. Over 275 was obtained, HOWEVER the big issue which is probebly why John has stopped doing it is intake heat. The engine is the same as the VX and they have been tuned to 350bhp on std internals you can get 320.
The intercooler though is way too small for that power, mine was fine at 250bhp in UK weather however too hot and the safety on the ECU cuts in and backs the boast off as the intake got too hot. So If you want to reliably go over 225 then you must look at a chargecooler. We had the clams off mine and believed it would be possible using Johns VX kit with a couple of bespoke hoses. This should give 275 all day long with a miltek exhaust... The only other issues were the Lamba setting the ECU light off.
All in all a good car I would also suggest removing the tray under the engine bay top grill as this aids engine bay cooling and you can see the engine better plus rear view improves.
Hope that helps.
The intercooler though is way too small for that power, mine was fine at 250bhp in UK weather however too hot and the safety on the ECU cuts in and backs the boast off as the intake got too hot. So If you want to reliably go over 225 then you must look at a chargecooler. We had the clams off mine and believed it would be possible using Johns VX kit with a couple of bespoke hoses. This should give 275 all day long with a miltek exhaust... The only other issues were the Lamba setting the ECU light off.
All in all a good car I would also suggest removing the tray under the engine bay top grill as this aids engine bay cooling and you can see the engine better plus rear view improves.
Hope that helps.
Cant disagree with these posts.
In simple terms the engine is an oxygen pump.
It also has to bring in lots Nitrogen which doesnt do much (N 80% O 20%).
If you want bigger power you need more oxygen.
Using a turbo you can raise the virtual engine volume but without the negatives of high mechanical friction or dead engine weight seen on V6´s and esp V8´s.
Great so far!! But this only works if the air u r bringing in is cool and dense and can be compressed, plus it also heats up when compressed.
Hence why folks above talk about importance of cooling and chargecooling.
The better this stuff is, the better the turbo "oxygen gain" effect and power.
Fuel injection means that side of the equation is almost unlimited (with the right FI system) so it is just a case of getting the oxygen in cold as poss.
Bitte sehr
In simple terms the engine is an oxygen pump.
It also has to bring in lots Nitrogen which doesnt do much (N 80% O 20%).
If you want bigger power you need more oxygen.
Using a turbo you can raise the virtual engine volume but without the negatives of high mechanical friction or dead engine weight seen on V6´s and esp V8´s.
Great so far!! But this only works if the air u r bringing in is cool and dense and can be compressed, plus it also heats up when compressed.
Hence why folks above talk about importance of cooling and chargecooling.
The better this stuff is, the better the turbo "oxygen gain" effect and power.
Fuel injection means that side of the equation is almost unlimited (with the right FI system) so it is just a case of getting the oxygen in cold as poss.
Bitte sehr
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