Track and Road Exige advise please.
Discussion
Hi
First the confession, I have tracked a Radical SR3 for the last three years and I am now thinking of moving on to something I can tack and road. Still looking for some speed and exhilaration but reducing the budget / cost per track day.
So what about an Exige 240?
I see lots of posts asking all the basic questions when guys are thinking about a Radical for the first time so now I’m looking for the same in the Lotus forum.
So any help / experiences you have had with tacking an Exige would be welcome including running costs.
Also anyone who track days with Lotus on Track comments
Thanks
First the confession, I have tracked a Radical SR3 for the last three years and I am now thinking of moving on to something I can tack and road. Still looking for some speed and exhilaration but reducing the budget / cost per track day.
So what about an Exige 240?
I see lots of posts asking all the basic questions when guys are thinking about a Radical for the first time so now I’m looking for the same in the Lotus forum.
So any help / experiences you have had with tacking an Exige would be welcome including running costs.
Also anyone who track days with Lotus on Track comments
Thanks
RedRad said:
Hi
First the confession, I have tracked a Radical SR3 for the last three years and I am now thinking of moving on to something I can tack and road. Still looking for some speed and exhilaration but reducing the budget / cost per track day.
So what about an Exige 240?
I see lots of posts asking all the basic questions when guys are thinking about a Radical for the first time so now I’m looking for the same in the Lotus forum.
So any help / experiences you have had with tacking an Exige would be welcome including running costs.
Also anyone who track days with Lotus on Track comments
Thanks
Well, for starters, 240 is not going to be anything like as fast as an SR3, it's over twice the wieght, has a way higher COG etc.First the confession, I have tracked a Radical SR3 for the last three years and I am now thinking of moving on to something I can tack and road. Still looking for some speed and exhilaration but reducing the budget / cost per track day.
So what about an Exige 240?
I see lots of posts asking all the basic questions when guys are thinking about a Radical for the first time so now I’m looking for the same in the Lotus forum.
So any help / experiences you have had with tacking an Exige would be welcome including running costs.
Also anyone who track days with Lotus on Track comments
Thanks
I know radnails are not exactly cheap, but tracking an Exige heavily is not exactly going to be peanuts either, the only real saving grace is that you can drive it to the cct (and back if you don't bend it!)
if your looking to cut costs, I would suggest a older Elise/Exige that's already been 'track-ised', else the initial outlay is going to hurt.
LOT are probably the best days to start with as you will be with a Lotus orientated guys in simmilar cars, and they are probably about as economic as you can get without cutting corners.
Hi , I have a Radical SR4 , and also an Exige S, both of which get used on track.
re the Exige after the Radical, things to think about...
you have to get past the fact that the Exige is a road car , playing at being a track car. campared to the likes of a Caterham, which you can treat like a race car, it needs a little bit of looking after.
You realy do need the big AP brakes (which you get on a 240), but even with these , you can't beast it till you run out of fuel like a Caterham, it needs looking after so 25 min track stints are about it in one go.
upgraded shocks are nice , with a lower ride hight & stiffer springs & anti roll bars (again most of which you get with a 240)
but even with upgraded power it will not be a similar experience.
I have a little under 300bhp from a Komotec 280 kit , + replaced manifolds , sports cat , exhaust , inlet system etc.
Oh and the AO48's are it , the R888 are a reasonable replacement , but just not quite as good IMHO just steer clear of the standing water
However, if you want something trackable , but useable on the road (even in miserable weather, rules out a Caterham) then in order to get a similar experience you would need to step up to a GT3 or similar.
I recently took mine on a great trip Circuit Days Euro Enduro, that I couldn't imagine doing in a Caterham or a road legal Radical and although it was a little on the cramped and noisy side it was just perfect on the various alpine passes (and re this trip , no I didn't get it confiscated)
re the Exige after the Radical, things to think about...
you have to get past the fact that the Exige is a road car , playing at being a track car. campared to the likes of a Caterham, which you can treat like a race car, it needs a little bit of looking after.
You realy do need the big AP brakes (which you get on a 240), but even with these , you can't beast it till you run out of fuel like a Caterham, it needs looking after so 25 min track stints are about it in one go.
upgraded shocks are nice , with a lower ride hight & stiffer springs & anti roll bars (again most of which you get with a 240)
but even with upgraded power it will not be a similar experience.
I have a little under 300bhp from a Komotec 280 kit , + replaced manifolds , sports cat , exhaust , inlet system etc.
Oh and the AO48's are it , the R888 are a reasonable replacement , but just not quite as good IMHO just steer clear of the standing water
However, if you want something trackable , but useable on the road (even in miserable weather, rules out a Caterham) then in order to get a similar experience you would need to step up to a GT3 or similar.
I recently took mine on a great trip Circuit Days Euro Enduro, that I couldn't imagine doing in a Caterham or a road legal Radical and although it was a little on the cramped and noisy side it was just perfect on the various alpine passes (and re this trip , no I didn't get it confiscated)
I'll be the first to say "consider a Honda converted Elise" if you're going down this route. If you take Simon Scuffer's advice and get a pre-converted car with decent spec, you will save thousands and end up with a much quicker package, plus you can see out the back and have the roof off without hassle.
If you don't like the idea of a converted car, look at Elise SC's and 2-Elevens, both a better all-round package than an Exige IMO.
As for tyres - I disagree that 888's are less good than 48's, personally I found them to be a better tyre in all cases, particularly in the wet, plus you don't have to pay a stupid dealer premium to purchase something which (with hard use) will only last you one or two trackdays.
If you don't like the idea of a converted car, look at Elise SC's and 2-Elevens, both a better all-round package than an Exige IMO.
As for tyres - I disagree that 888's are less good than 48's, personally I found them to be a better tyre in all cases, particularly in the wet, plus you don't have to pay a stupid dealer premium to purchase something which (with hard use) will only last you one or two trackdays.
I guess it just depends how track focused you want to be.
in my experience as a std lotus product , the exige is superior around the track than the elise, but I will conceed that the elise is a far more flexible solution if you want to do a lot of road miles.
I have to agree re the honda converted S1 elise , a great peice of kit if done well.
As to the 48 v 888 the stop watch doesn't lie , with the car set up I have the 48's are quicker , with better turn in.
But on the road there is nothing to choose between them , and the 888's are significantly cheaper
in my experience as a std lotus product , the exige is superior around the track than the elise, but I will conceed that the elise is a far more flexible solution if you want to do a lot of road miles.
I have to agree re the honda converted S1 elise , a great peice of kit if done well.
As to the 48 v 888 the stop watch doesn't lie , with the car set up I have the 48's are quicker , with better turn in.
But on the road there is nothing to choose between them , and the 888's are significantly cheaper
I think properly heat cycled 48's will last a lot longer than 2 trackdays...
My last set of rears lasted 2.5K miles including 4 trackdays (car is Exige 240 Cup spec). Fronts roughly double that.
Brake pads on my car (relatively fresh when I bought the car) have done 6K miles including 8 trackdays and a weekend at the 'ring - OK they're getting low now...
I agree an Exige S won't be a patch on your Radical but it's a good compromise in terms of track ability vs touring fun and comfort.
My last set of rears lasted 2.5K miles including 4 trackdays (car is Exige 240 Cup spec). Fronts roughly double that.
Brake pads on my car (relatively fresh when I bought the car) have done 6K miles including 8 trackdays and a weekend at the 'ring - OK they're getting low now...
I agree an Exige S won't be a patch on your Radical but it's a good compromise in terms of track ability vs touring fun and comfort.
RedRad said:
Thanks for all the advise.
Is it right to budget for a set of tyres every one / Two track days ?
How long do brake pads last on track ?
Depends on how hard you drive, and very much on which tracks. On average the quote above for ~4 TD's inside of 2,500-5,000mls was my norm on a c.240bhp, c815kg NA Honda'd S2.Is it right to budget for a set of tyres every one / Two track days ?
How long do brake pads last on track ?
Can't offer any advice on the car front (I own a sort of boggo S1) but LoT days are great. Mostly Elises/Exiges with the odd Porker and a few Caterhams. Great manners/courtesy on track and good bunch all round. As you'd expect ability varies from the like of me (not very good!) to some firly decent drivers, everyone seemws to rub along OK though.
RedRad said:
Thanks for all the advise.
Is it right to budget for a set of tyres every one / Two track days ?
How long do brake pads last on track ?
that's largely dependant on how hard you drive it and how well setup it is...Is it right to budget for a set of tyres every one / Two track days ?
How long do brake pads last on track ?
realistically, LTS A048's should last a few days unless your an animal.
decent pads (like Padgid RS14's)will last ~1-2,000 track miles
but this is really down to the car/driver combo.
Hi Red rad,
I have just been through a similar process to you. I went from a caterham to an elise S2 (same performance but you get a heater and can always drive it home from a trackday).
Got fed up with being held up in corners by GT3's then left for dead on the straight so bought a GT3. Hated the whole cachet of Porsche ownership and was scared ****less in case i damaged it, plus wife hated it, I didnt feel safe leaving it anywhere and worst of all every time i looked in the mirror when cornering there was a Lotus up my ****.
So I bought a 240 and can honestly say it ticks all the boxes for me and it leaves GT3's for dead on the straight (generally but not nescesarily everytime but usually if you are in front!) and you can do more laps without worrying if you are going to boil the fluid.
So whats a radical like then?
I have just been through a similar process to you. I went from a caterham to an elise S2 (same performance but you get a heater and can always drive it home from a trackday).
Got fed up with being held up in corners by GT3's then left for dead on the straight so bought a GT3. Hated the whole cachet of Porsche ownership and was scared ****less in case i damaged it, plus wife hated it, I didnt feel safe leaving it anywhere and worst of all every time i looked in the mirror when cornering there was a Lotus up my ****.
So I bought a 240 and can honestly say it ticks all the boxes for me and it leaves GT3's for dead on the straight (generally but not nescesarily everytime but usually if you are in front!) and you can do more laps without worrying if you are going to boil the fluid.
So whats a radical like then?
TIPPER said:
Can't offer any advice on the car front (I own a sort of boggo S1) but LoT days are great. Mostly Elises/Exiges with the odd Porker and a few Caterhams. Great manners/courtesy on track and good bunch all round. As you'd expect ability varies from the like of me (not very good!) to some firly decent drivers, everyone seemws to rub along OK though.
So LOT is not solely a Lotus owners/drivers club?IGM said:
So LOT is not solely a Lotus owners/drivers club?
Lotus on Track website FAQ said:
Is my car suitable? (don't have a Lotus - read on!)
If you don't have a Lotus don't worry we are happy to accept other 2 seater road going sports car' owners if they have a similar attitude to driving their cars on track but will exclude people we think are joining just to get cheap days. A variety of cars on track makes for a much more interesting and fun day. We particularly welcome VX220's, Caterham's, Porsche & MX5's as we have a large number of members with these marques. We do not accept saloon cars that have been modified to have 2 seats. We do however, expect all cars to be able to meet safety and noise emission requirements. All cars need to be to MOT standards, seatbelts, brakes, indicators and lights all need to work and tyres must be in good condition. Single seaters are not allowed. If you are unsure if Lotus-on-Track is suitable for you please get in touch...
TolIf you don't have a Lotus don't worry we are happy to accept other 2 seater road going sports car' owners if they have a similar attitude to driving their cars on track but will exclude people we think are joining just to get cheap days. A variety of cars on track makes for a much more interesting and fun day. We particularly welcome VX220's, Caterham's, Porsche & MX5's as we have a large number of members with these marques. We do not accept saloon cars that have been modified to have 2 seats. We do however, expect all cars to be able to meet safety and noise emission requirements. All cars need to be to MOT standards, seatbelts, brakes, indicators and lights all need to work and tyres must be in good condition. Single seaters are not allowed. If you are unsure if Lotus-on-Track is suitable for you please get in touch...
Type 49 Hi
Thanks for the info from your experience with the GT3 v Exige.
The SR3 is phenomenal, cornering and braking is fantastic. It is a great bit of kit and with two seats you can share the excitement with others. I am reluctant to move away from it.
If you get a sunny day at Spa there is nothing better.
Even though my car has been very reliable the down side is the running costs, for me it’s a summer only car, it’s not much fun it the winter so lots of time wrapped up in the garage.
Nice problem to have though
Thanks for the info from your experience with the GT3 v Exige.
The SR3 is phenomenal, cornering and braking is fantastic. It is a great bit of kit and with two seats you can share the excitement with others. I am reluctant to move away from it.
If you get a sunny day at Spa there is nothing better.
Even though my car has been very reliable the down side is the running costs, for me it’s a summer only car, it’s not much fun it the winter so lots of time wrapped up in the garage.
Nice problem to have though
Pesky said:
Rich S said:
As to the 48 v 888 the stop watch doesn't lie
I presume that this was on test day (which circuit?), with the back to back testing of newly scrubbed in 48s & 888s, being the only change to the car? What difference in the times did you record?TIA
Any chance of a reply?
I have been in a similar situation, owned a caterham, a lotus 340r, a 968 CS as track day cars but more recently running one car only - there's no such think as one size fits all, sports cars are not track cars as you are doubtless well aware. I have had a lotus 240R for 12mths (essentially like today's exige S PP, has upgraded brakes, suspension, accusump etc compared to more usual road spec) which is a weekend / trackday toy. I enjoy driving it more on track than all the others - it's challenging yet fluid, especially in the wet.
Costs over 12mths circa 4k off the top of my head which includes about 1k uprating the brakes and frequent oil changes. Tyres last 3-4 days on the rears, slightly longer on the fronts but of course that depends on so many factors in weather, tyres are 600-750 quid a set or thereabouts. Rear dampers were replaced under warranty, otherwise apart from wear and tear it's been faultless. I think it's important to have the power os an 'S' or similar on real circuits with some lenghty straights.
I have done 3 long european weekend in mine too inc spa, nurburgring and it's perfectly happy blatting along the m-ways of europe.
I keep toying with the idea of a 211 or a caterham R500 but can't do it to myself - after all the exige has a windscreen, roof, heater and in my case, aircon. On which note - excellen on the road keeping cabin perfectly cool in heat of european summer pointless on track.
Someone else suggested buying a 'ready to track' car that someone else has done the work on. There are many around and it's a good idea esp if you are more interested than how it drives, than it appearing showroom fresh.
Costs over 12mths circa 4k off the top of my head which includes about 1k uprating the brakes and frequent oil changes. Tyres last 3-4 days on the rears, slightly longer on the fronts but of course that depends on so many factors in weather, tyres are 600-750 quid a set or thereabouts. Rear dampers were replaced under warranty, otherwise apart from wear and tear it's been faultless. I think it's important to have the power os an 'S' or similar on real circuits with some lenghty straights.
I have done 3 long european weekend in mine too inc spa, nurburgring and it's perfectly happy blatting along the m-ways of europe.
I keep toying with the idea of a 211 or a caterham R500 but can't do it to myself - after all the exige has a windscreen, roof, heater and in my case, aircon. On which note - excellen on the road keeping cabin perfectly cool in heat of european summer pointless on track.
Someone else suggested buying a 'ready to track' car that someone else has done the work on. There are many around and it's a good idea esp if you are more interested than how it drives, than it appearing showroom fresh.
Hi Pesky,
sorry for the delay
If you want to drill down to the detail , then it wasn't done scientifically
the AO48's were heavily worn in (not quite worn out, still road legal, just) and the 888's were scrubbed in but possibly not jet buffed down to their best
also if you are looking for a reference to a standard exige S, my suspension is far from , being considerably stiffer (not always convinced this is a good thing)
Personally (and this has been born out on subsequent track days) for my driving style , in my car , I don't feel that the 888's give the same confidence on turn in, though it may be possible to overcome this with a softer front suspension set up.
break away , and tyre wear I find very similar , and as I mentioned , on the road there is nothing to choose between them , with a considerable cost saving with the 888's
I did this on the ring where confidence on turn in tends to be important (well it is to me), and was averaging just under 7 seconds a lap (BtoG) quicker on the AO48's
( I hope you weren't implying I would try & time laps on a UK track day )
Interestingly , my experience was mirrored by a friend's experience testing a 240R race car in the UK, though I don't have the details of when & where they tested.
If someone had the time and inclination , and the services of a driver of sufficient talent that we could remove the individual from the equation , I too would love to see the results of a scientifically done test , if only to see if my impressions are mirrored.
until that time I will have to make do with my own experience.
Hope this is useful to you
Rich
sorry for the delay
If you want to drill down to the detail , then it wasn't done scientifically
the AO48's were heavily worn in (not quite worn out, still road legal, just) and the 888's were scrubbed in but possibly not jet buffed down to their best
also if you are looking for a reference to a standard exige S, my suspension is far from , being considerably stiffer (not always convinced this is a good thing)
Personally (and this has been born out on subsequent track days) for my driving style , in my car , I don't feel that the 888's give the same confidence on turn in, though it may be possible to overcome this with a softer front suspension set up.
break away , and tyre wear I find very similar , and as I mentioned , on the road there is nothing to choose between them , with a considerable cost saving with the 888's
I did this on the ring where confidence on turn in tends to be important (well it is to me), and was averaging just under 7 seconds a lap (BtoG) quicker on the AO48's
( I hope you weren't implying I would try & time laps on a UK track day )
Interestingly , my experience was mirrored by a friend's experience testing a 240R race car in the UK, though I don't have the details of when & where they tested.
If someone had the time and inclination , and the services of a driver of sufficient talent that we could remove the individual from the equation , I too would love to see the results of a scientifically done test , if only to see if my impressions are mirrored.
until that time I will have to make do with my own experience.
Hope this is useful to you
Rich
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