Exige S2 with aftermarket Supercharger vs. Exige R
Discussion
Forgive me if this has already been discussed before, but recent market turmoil has affected used Lotus prices somewhat.
I have driven a stage 2 VX220 turbo for the last two years. I swapped the wheels for Exige sized wheels with Toyo 888s and it was absolutely awesome fun (before the flames, I have owned a B&C S1 Super 160 and an Elan M100, I love em all). The biggest thing that winds me up is that I don't like convertibles, I don't have a garage and waterproofing is essential. My first S1 Elise had a B&C carbon hardtop but that didn't do the job, and it also was noisy as hell. The M100 leaked like a sieve. The VXT, with hardtop and judicious use of silicone sealant, was waterproof parked outside during the winter.
I also prefer supercharged engines (check my history, supercharged 993 porker and my current MG ZT 400 (4.6 Mustang engine with twin-screw supercharger...). The Exige put me off (although being the perfect car, being a hardtop, and without needing suspension / wheel adjustments to keep up with the Lotuses) due to the screamer engine. Some low-down torque is what I want.
So happily Lotus sell a factory supercharged Exige. I want one. But they're still overpriced IMO. The non-supercharged versions sell for a LOT less. And I've heard that a couple of Swiss companies sell aftermarket supercharger conversions for the N/A Exiges.
Can anyone give objective advice on what would suit me? An N/A Exige with an aftermarket blower sounds like it may be cheaper than the factory S/C cars in the classifieds (the dealer prices seem preposterously ambitious... are they really shifting them at these prices?). And I've got no fear about aftermarket conversions, unless everyone knows they blow up.
Due to a phenomenally idiotic mistake on my part (going out for a mad drive in the VXT in the damp on 888s when in a suicidally emotional state - long, long, long story - all resolved now) I sadly only half-caught a spin and dented the rear clam. Due to the rareness of VXT clams, the insurance company wrote it off - I'm getting a generous £15k settlement figure. Very sad about it because it was bright yellow and irreplaceable really, and I loved it (it was quick, not as quick as my old Noble, but kept up with two Elises, one mk1 and one mk2 on the A23... so what you say, but the S1 had an Audi turbo in it, and the S2 had a Honda Type-R engine installed... heh). Ideally I'd want an Exige with an Audi engine (flame me as much as you will, I've had enough from the anti-Vauxhall crowd...) but that's a project car and a large cost.
However I can stretch to £25-£30k and I *need* forced induction. I don't want a dog of an Exige that's been some SELOC guy's track s
g and been thrashed to buggery - that's what I'm going to do 
So a tidy N/A Exige that is £10-15k cheaper than a supercharged one, and then a Bemani kit?
Open to the hive mind. I'm open minded about this - as long as things like K-series, mk1 Exiges, or soft-top Elises are Not mentioned. The VXT did 450 mile round trips in one day and I reckon the Exige mk2 would be just as good, plus almost certainly better handling (and *definitely* better braking!) than the VXT.
Badge means nothing to me - the engineering does. I've seen how the Lotus bonded ally tub holds up to stacks and I utterly love the way they drive. I just don't want to be broken-hearted by yet another unreliable, constantly breaking down Lotus. My Elise S1 and Elan M100 were nightmares, however gorgeous they were when working. The VXT was rock-solid reliable, and from sitting in a few Exiges it appears that Lotus have moved the game on from the VXT without compromising weight - hey the Exige has air-con, the VXT didn't. Couldn't give a st about ICE but the Exige I saw had 4 speakers (will remove them pretty sharpish, unless the engine sounds like st).
I don't want a pure track sg, it has to be my 'pleasure' car and I'll choose it for the 450 mile round trip to my sister's in the west country - but also perform on my local, favourite circuit (Brands). I don't need to ask about that, I've tried to keep up with Exiges in my VXT and had to work *very* hard. But can I leave it outdoors all year and it be totally reliable with just regular oil changes and scheduled servicing? I'm not a polisher, just a driver...
I have driven a stage 2 VX220 turbo for the last two years. I swapped the wheels for Exige sized wheels with Toyo 888s and it was absolutely awesome fun (before the flames, I have owned a B&C S1 Super 160 and an Elan M100, I love em all). The biggest thing that winds me up is that I don't like convertibles, I don't have a garage and waterproofing is essential. My first S1 Elise had a B&C carbon hardtop but that didn't do the job, and it also was noisy as hell. The M100 leaked like a sieve. The VXT, with hardtop and judicious use of silicone sealant, was waterproof parked outside during the winter.
I also prefer supercharged engines (check my history, supercharged 993 porker and my current MG ZT 400 (4.6 Mustang engine with twin-screw supercharger...). The Exige put me off (although being the perfect car, being a hardtop, and without needing suspension / wheel adjustments to keep up with the Lotuses) due to the screamer engine. Some low-down torque is what I want.
So happily Lotus sell a factory supercharged Exige. I want one. But they're still overpriced IMO. The non-supercharged versions sell for a LOT less. And I've heard that a couple of Swiss companies sell aftermarket supercharger conversions for the N/A Exiges.
Can anyone give objective advice on what would suit me? An N/A Exige with an aftermarket blower sounds like it may be cheaper than the factory S/C cars in the classifieds (the dealer prices seem preposterously ambitious... are they really shifting them at these prices?). And I've got no fear about aftermarket conversions, unless everyone knows they blow up.
Due to a phenomenally idiotic mistake on my part (going out for a mad drive in the VXT in the damp on 888s when in a suicidally emotional state - long, long, long story - all resolved now) I sadly only half-caught a spin and dented the rear clam. Due to the rareness of VXT clams, the insurance company wrote it off - I'm getting a generous £15k settlement figure. Very sad about it because it was bright yellow and irreplaceable really, and I loved it (it was quick, not as quick as my old Noble, but kept up with two Elises, one mk1 and one mk2 on the A23... so what you say, but the S1 had an Audi turbo in it, and the S2 had a Honda Type-R engine installed... heh). Ideally I'd want an Exige with an Audi engine (flame me as much as you will, I've had enough from the anti-Vauxhall crowd...) but that's a project car and a large cost.
However I can stretch to £25-£30k and I *need* forced induction. I don't want a dog of an Exige that's been some SELOC guy's track s
g and been thrashed to buggery - that's what I'm going to do So a tidy N/A Exige that is £10-15k cheaper than a supercharged one, and then a Bemani kit?Open to the hive mind. I'm open minded about this - as long as things like K-series, mk1 Exiges, or soft-top Elises are Not mentioned. The VXT did 450 mile round trips in one day and I reckon the Exige mk2 would be just as good, plus almost certainly better handling (and *definitely* better braking!) than the VXT.
Badge means nothing to me - the engineering does. I've seen how the Lotus bonded ally tub holds up to stacks and I utterly love the way they drive. I just don't want to be broken-hearted by yet another unreliable, constantly breaking down Lotus. My Elise S1 and Elan M100 were nightmares, however gorgeous they were when working. The VXT was rock-solid reliable, and from sitting in a few Exiges it appears that Lotus have moved the game on from the VXT without compromising weight - hey the Exige has air-con, the VXT didn't. Couldn't give a s
t about ICE but the Exige I saw had 4 speakers (will remove them pretty sharpish, unless the engine sounds like st).I don't want a pure track s
g, it has to be my 'pleasure' car and I'll choose it for the 450 mile round trip to my sister's in the west country - but also perform on my local, favourite circuit (Brands). I don't need to ask about that, I've tried to keep up with Exiges in my VXT and had to work *very* hard. But can I leave it outdoors all year and it be totally reliable with just regular oil changes and scheduled servicing? I'm not a polisher, just a driver...Hi 
I purchased my Exige S from Ben - L100NYY - he's at Castle Lotus and a nice genuine enthusiast to deal with if you want a factory car from a dealership - recommended if you want something with a lotus warranty, finance etc
It's been; and in my opinion; is a great car ... never missed a beat, easy to live with and I've had some great adventures driving Brands, Silverstone, Abbeville and Spa etc. It's comfy and fast and looks fabulous in my eyes
Not tried the komotec or Bemani conversions so someone else will need to provide some feedback on those but I have tried the Katana conversion from Sinclaires which I rate highly. If you already have an n/a exige with some bits and bobs then it's a powerful rival for a factory s/c exige. It feels slightly quicker than the factory s/c to me but ultimately there probably isn't much in it.
Prices in this current market have equalised things a bit and there's now a price band which your budget covers where you could acquire either a second hand factory s/c or a cheaper n/a car and add something like the katana.
Why not give Ben or Sinclaires a call and try their demo cars and see what you like and which one fits your personal financial position more comfortably? What a great dilemna to have ... good luck
I purchased my Exige S from Ben - L100NYY - he's at Castle Lotus and a nice genuine enthusiast to deal with if you want a factory car from a dealership - recommended if you want something with a lotus warranty, finance etc
It's been; and in my opinion; is a great car ... never missed a beat, easy to live with and I've had some great adventures driving Brands, Silverstone, Abbeville and Spa etc. It's comfy and fast and looks fabulous in my eyes
Not tried the komotec or Bemani conversions so someone else will need to provide some feedback on those but I have tried the Katana conversion from Sinclaires which I rate highly. If you already have an n/a exige with some bits and bobs then it's a powerful rival for a factory s/c exige. It feels slightly quicker than the factory s/c to me but ultimately there probably isn't much in it.
Prices in this current market have equalised things a bit and there's now a price band which your budget covers where you could acquire either a second hand factory s/c or a cheaper n/a car and add something like the katana.
Why not give Ben or Sinclaires a call and try their demo cars and see what you like and which one fits your personal financial position more comfortably? What a great dilemna to have ... good luck
So the mk2 Exige is reliable and doesn't miss a beat (lemons excluded?) That's it, I have to have one 
Any trouble with water ingress? That's pretty much the only 'niggle' that I can't put up with.
Knowing my preference for torque delivery, the N/A version may very well be slightly quicker in the right hands round a circuit, but in my hands, I'm faster with low down torque. A good example of this was me in my old originally-272-bhp 993 with Dunlop SSRs and an Eaton M90 charger (no more than 310 bhp but 320 lb ft) against a mate in a 993 RS (proper suspension, better brakes, lightweight, 300 bhp, the real deal) at a trackday at Brands GP a while back. The RS *should* be quicker, but it has to be driven *just so*, whereas with 50 lb ft more torque I could adjust the attitude round corners without fear of snapping back into line on the exit and fishtailing into the barriers (i.e. I could slide the 911 around comfortably). I got past him in 3 laps (yeah, trackdays aren't races, but they're a good way of comparing cars and drivers)... And I'm hardly the Lewis Hamilton of car control.
Equally a proper driver in a N/A Exige may be faster than the supercharged car, but I bet I'll be faster in the S/C car than the N/A car because of the way I like to drive. Like the S1 Elise I had, I'm assuming the N/A Exige (esp. on 48Rs) doesn't have the grunt to slide the tail on its own... so when the back does come round, it's momentum oversteer and you're in a whole world of pain.
So.... do you really think I can get a supercharged Exige that's not at the bottom of the pile for £25k? There appear to be plenty from £30k to £45k (who the hell is going to may £45k for an Exige in today's climate, I have no idea). And, I have the suspicion that the sticker prices that are on the dealer cars (which seem to be plentiful in the PH classifieds) may be negotiable... how much do you reckon can be knocked off in the current market?
Any trouble with water ingress? That's pretty much the only 'niggle' that I can't put up with.Knowing my preference for torque delivery, the N/A version may very well be slightly quicker in the right hands round a circuit, but in my hands, I'm faster with low down torque. A good example of this was me in my old originally-272-bhp 993 with Dunlop SSRs and an Eaton M90 charger (no more than 310 bhp but 320 lb ft) against a mate in a 993 RS (proper suspension, better brakes, lightweight, 300 bhp, the real deal) at a trackday at Brands GP a while back. The RS *should* be quicker, but it has to be driven *just so*, whereas with 50 lb ft more torque I could adjust the attitude round corners without fear of snapping back into line on the exit and fishtailing into the barriers (i.e. I could slide the 911 around comfortably). I got past him in 3 laps (yeah, trackdays aren't races, but they're a good way of comparing cars and drivers)... And I'm hardly the Lewis Hamilton of car control.
Equally a proper driver in a N/A Exige may be faster than the supercharged car, but I bet I'll be faster in the S/C car than the N/A car because of the way I like to drive. Like the S1 Elise I had, I'm assuming the N/A Exige (esp. on 48Rs) doesn't have the grunt to slide the tail on its own... so when the back does come round, it's momentum oversteer and you're in a whole world of pain.
So.... do you really think I can get a supercharged Exige that's not at the bottom of the pile for £25k? There appear to be plenty from £30k to £45k (who the hell is going to may £45k for an Exige in today's climate, I have no idea). And, I have the suspicion that the sticker prices that are on the dealer cars (which seem to be plentiful in the PH classifieds) may be negotiable... how much do you reckon can be knocked off in the current market?
Sorry to hear about your car, did look like a nice one 
I changed from a (standard) VXT to an NA Exige about 18 months ago, and haven't looked back since. On track there's not a great deal of difference between an S and an NA, but I'd imagine the extra torque will make life a lot easier on the road. I'm quite tempted at the moment to go down the Katana upgrade route, as my car is the perfect spec for me and I'd struggle to buy an S with the exact spec I'd like. For around £5K fitted (do a search on SELOC for specifics) it would probably work out cheaper than upgrading to an S, and should give comparable performance to the new 240 performance pack cars.
My car has been very reliable (touch wood), the only real water ingress issue is the one where it kills the resistor pack for the heater fan - clam off job to fix
I changed from a (standard) VXT to an NA Exige about 18 months ago, and haven't looked back since. On track there's not a great deal of difference between an S and an NA, but I'd imagine the extra torque will make life a lot easier on the road. I'm quite tempted at the moment to go down the Katana upgrade route, as my car is the perfect spec for me and I'd struggle to buy an S with the exact spec I'd like. For around £5K fitted (do a search on SELOC for specifics) it would probably work out cheaper than upgrading to an S, and should give comparable performance to the new 240 performance pack cars.
My car has been very reliable (touch wood), the only real water ingress issue is the one where it kills the resistor pack for the heater fan - clam off job to fix
Digital said:
Sorry to hear about your car, did look like a nice one
I changed from a (standard) VXT to an NA Exige about 18 months ago, and haven't looked back since. On track there's not a great deal of difference between an S and an NA, but I'd imagine the extra torque will make life a lot easier on the road. I'm quite tempted at the moment to go down the Katana upgrade route, as my car is the perfect spec for me and I'd struggle to buy an S with the exact spec I'd like. For around £5K fitted (do a search on SELOC for specifics) it would probably work out cheaper than upgrading to an S, and should give comparable performance to the new 240 performance pack cars.
My car has been very reliable (touch wood), the only real water ingress issue is the one where it kills the resistor pack for the heater fan - clam off job to fix
Thanks for that - it was a damn excellent VXT - the insurance guys will get a fair amount back by stripping it - only the rear clam was damaged in one corner, the TD wheels and 888 tyres were undamaged, the engine was fine, all the interior and hardtop was fine - just an arbitrary decision by the underwriters (who still haven't sent the cheque, 3 months later).I changed from a (standard) VXT to an NA Exige about 18 months ago, and haven't looked back since. On track there's not a great deal of difference between an S and an NA, but I'd imagine the extra torque will make life a lot easier on the road. I'm quite tempted at the moment to go down the Katana upgrade route, as my car is the perfect spec for me and I'd struggle to buy an S with the exact spec I'd like. For around £5K fitted (do a search on SELOC for specifics) it would probably work out cheaper than upgrading to an S, and should give comparable performance to the new 240 performance pack cars.
My car has been very reliable (touch wood), the only real water ingress issue is the one where it kills the resistor pack for the heater fan - clam off job to fix
I've just discovered the Katana kit and posted on the thread. If that's really only £5k fitted then it sounds like a decent deal - I've seen £25k Exige S private sales on the classifieds, but the N/A cars are cheaper and, hell, I have a long history of doing aftermarket supercharger conversions (well, a 911 and a V8 MG ZT so far). That Katana looks like an Eaton M45 to me and those things are pretty much bulletproof (BMW Mini fitment) so I'd only be concerned about the CR of the Toyota motor and whether the ECU mods add enough fuel / retard ignition under overheating conditions (always a problem with Roots-type chargers, especially on trackdays in the summer) to prevent det.
Will do a bit of searching about this Katana modification...
Regarding the heater resistor pack issue - I thought Lotus sorted that ages ago? It was a problem for VXTs as well, wasn't it (didn't affect mine, thankfully, though 'heater' was an optimistic word with my VXT). If I'm buying from a dealer, is there a Lotus-approved recall / kit to permanently fix the problem that I can insist is fitted before purchase, or is it a recurring problem? I will be leaving the car outside in all weathers as I have no garage, and if it's a clam-off repair every year then it's going to be damned expensive. I never got the hang of taking the clam off the VXT myself because Lotus used chocolate fasteners which were all rusted solid. I suppose if the Exige uses stainless fasteners on the clam attachments then clam-removal will be a much quicker job (couple of hours) but I don't have faith in the Lotus bean-counters...
ETA - just found a bright yellow N/A Exige with black wheels for £18.5k in the classifieds... same colour combo as my VXT...
Edited by cyberface on Saturday 15th November 16:38
You could wait a bit and get one of these:
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f160/next-generati...
Could you not buy back the car from the insurance company?
If you're going to track it I think you'd have to budget for some nitrons as the std stuff's too soft, especially on an S as it's heavier. Don't be fooled by the lotus performance pack adjustable ones cos they're almost as bad. I'd also check if it has uprated tie rods at the back (should be obvious, it has a big bar between em), and for any play in the toe links at the back as they're £160 a throw and can last as little as 7k. S's have this as std, early n/a's didn't.
On mine, apart from a small wiring prob at first that took a while to track down, it's been completely reliable/watertight so far. I think over 18 months i've done 20k miles, ~40 trackdays, 8 sets of front pads, 2 rears, 2 sets of discs F&R, just bought 3rd set of front tires (heat cycling, not wear), 4 rear tires, an oil cooler from when some gravel went through it, and one set of toe links.
Oh yeah, also look for ones with twin oil coolers and the seats with harness holes in as they cost a bit to retro fit.
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f160/next-generati...
Could you not buy back the car from the insurance company?
If you're going to track it I think you'd have to budget for some nitrons as the std stuff's too soft, especially on an S as it's heavier. Don't be fooled by the lotus performance pack adjustable ones cos they're almost as bad. I'd also check if it has uprated tie rods at the back (should be obvious, it has a big bar between em), and for any play in the toe links at the back as they're £160 a throw and can last as little as 7k. S's have this as std, early n/a's didn't.
On mine, apart from a small wiring prob at first that took a while to track down, it's been completely reliable/watertight so far. I think over 18 months i've done 20k miles, ~40 trackdays, 8 sets of front pads, 2 rears, 2 sets of discs F&R, just bought 3rd set of front tires (heat cycling, not wear), 4 rear tires, an oil cooler from when some gravel went through it, and one set of toe links.
Oh yeah, also look for ones with twin oil coolers and the seats with harness holes in as they cost a bit to retro fit.
abarber said:
Hi Cyberface,
Recognise your login from the Porker forum, used to have a 993C2 and miss it dearly.
The Katana conversion is an MP62 charger, using a Greddy manifold by the looks of things. Should do what you wish!
Best of luck with it!
Heya Recognise your login from the Porker forum, used to have a 993C2 and miss it dearly.
The Katana conversion is an MP62 charger, using a Greddy manifold by the looks of things. Should do what you wish!
Best of luck with it!
Yup been around PH a while, since 2002!!! How the time flies by, eh?Still miss the charged 993 - that was a great do-everything car, but I now have a 400 bhp 'sensible' family saloon
so my toy can be more focused. I was considering a Boxster with a boosted engine but have no desire for a soft-top - the Cayman with a boosted engine would be great but too expensive. Besides, I got addicted to the light weight of the VXT and the steering (with the right Lotus sized wheels on) is even more feelsome than a 993's. The VXT was great and made up for all the disappointments with the S1 Elise I had - I'm expecting an S2 Exige to be even better!S Works said:
A quick look in the classifieds shows several Exige S's at under £25k. As an alternative, there are also a few Europa S's with the 225 upgrade done which might be worth a look. Especially if you've managed to keep the wheels/tyres from the Astra
No more FFS. I really miss that car, yeah it's got a Vauxhall engine, no, fk it, I'm not rising to the bait.I've sat in a Europa, I'm assuming it drives like a VXT but with proper aerodynamics (according to John Thorne, haven't driven one myself) - which means that I'd have to immediately send it to Thorney to remap the engine to get rid of the standard Astra flatspot and also swap the wheels to Exige size to make it handle. I don't have the same prejudices some have about the Europa, nor do I have too much of a problem with the looks.
However I also have no problem flinging myself in and out of even an S1 Elise with a B&C carbon hardtop, so the lower sills and the other creature comforts aren't really a requirement for me. The Exige S2 is like a Merc limo inside compared to the VXT and my old Elise anyway
Lovely, comfy and alcantara everywhere. And presumably slightly better ventilation than the VXT.As to Nitrons - if they're significantly harder or offer too much adjustment (which I'm not expert enough to do properly, therefore I'm likely to make the handling worse rather than better), then I'd probably be better off with the standard dampers. I actually like a compliant ride and have no problem with weight transfer on track (all that time in 911s) - the VXT was compromised but I actually rather liked it
Perhaps I have weird taste but I know what I enjoy driving and I don't care for 'accepted dogma' - and given I'm not going to be racing, the last couple of seconds per lap are of little consequence. It'll be mostly road miles with (hopefully) 5-10 trackdays per year.What is tempting is the N/A Exiges (esp. yellow with black wheels, like my old VXT) at less than £20k (two around £19k, presumably possible to haggle down a bit). That way I can try the car in its 'pure' lighter form, and if the high-rev nature of the engine winds me up then I can then supercharge it, without having to go the whole hog up front. After all, I may find the N/A Exige absolutely fine for my taste. Personally I think that's unlikely but for only £5k for the charger upgrade I can always do that in a couple of months when I have more cash.
I know that with Lotuses it's usually a good idea to buy the newest car you can afford, due to improvements made on the production line from experience and feedback from owners. Are there any obvious issues that were ironed out in later models, so, for example, a 2004 car would be a bad idea? The two yellow 2004 cars below £19k in the classifieds are very tempting, but if there are known issues with them then I'd like to get my research straight first.
The 2006 MY cars have a pedal box (from the VX I think) that's better setup for heel and toe, and the sports pack cars (the spec you really want ) come with traction control. Can't say the addition of LED rear lights would make much difference to me, but the older pedal box is definitely worse than the newer one. I think some of the early cars may not have even one oil cooler and again it'll be a clam off job to fit them...
ETA I'd go for the blue sports pack car in the classifieds in preference to either of the yellow ones, purely because of the sports pack
) come with traction control. Can't say the addition of LED rear lights would make much difference to me, but the older pedal box is definitely worse than the newer one. I think some of the early cars may not have even one oil cooler and again it'll be a clam off job to fit them...ETA I'd go for the blue sports pack car in the classifieds in preference to either of the yellow ones, purely because of the sports pack
Edited by Digital on Saturday 15th November 23:30
Coming from a tuned VXT to an NA exige, the exige will feel gutless. I done exactly that, and after the 'honeymoon' period worn off, I got rid of the Exige.
I dare say I could drive the Exige quicker, the handling was near perfect, and felt light, and crisp, but I just missed the low down torque. Shame really. (Also the practical side of things got to me)
Saying that, I will own another exige one day, but it will definately be an S.
I dare say I could drive the Exige quicker, the handling was near perfect, and felt light, and crisp, but I just missed the low down torque. Shame really. (Also the practical side of things got to me)
Saying that, I will own another exige one day, but it will definately be an S.
If you're keeping it for a long time then buying a S/H NA Exige and sticking a Katana on it would be a great choice - I hear a chargecooler is in the pipeline too, so that gives you more options.
The market's low at the moment so you have plenty of cars to choose from and plenty of offers to make. At the same time I'd personally want to get a baffled sump fitted if you are doing the odd trackday.
The market's low at the moment so you have plenty of cars to choose from and plenty of offers to make. At the same time I'd personally want to get a baffled sump fitted if you are doing the odd trackday.
Thanks for the advice all.
Definitely a N/A car will feel gutless compared to a VXT but anything short of an Elise / Exige with an Audi transplant will 'feel' gutless due to turbo torque (2 litre chipped turbo vs. 1.8 supercharged? I'd put the VXT ahead at 3000 rpm but I'm bored stless of VXT vs. Lotus arguments... AFAIAC they're the same car with different engines and badges, which is why I've had both and will be buying another ). The question is how long I can live with the lack of torque, but there's no way I'll get rid of it because the Katana charger exists and unless there's some ridiculous waiting list, or the price is crazy, that is definitely the way I'm going to go. The price is more than acceptable so it's really a question of how busy Sinclaires are - and if it only takes a day (as opposed to the 2 weeks the chargers on my 911 and MG ZT took) then I'm sure that won't be a problem either. Kit supply is presumably the only holdup.
As to pedal box... well I'm guessing the pre-2006 pedal box is like the early S2 Elise, with the elongated D-shaped throttle? I've driven both - I prefer the VXT pedal setup but the VXT 2-channel ABS was bloody dangerous. The Exige has 4-channel ABS doesn't it? It wouldn't be difficult for any car to have better standard brakes than the VXT, as long as my new Exige doesn't come supplied with Greenduff pads (like many I've seen) then it should be fine. If I buy from a dealer and it's got Greenduff then that's the first thing I'll ask them to change...
The other thing is tyres. The two yellow / black Exiges in the classifieds appear to be running 'normal' looking tyres. I ran Toyo 888s on the VXT and I absolutely loved them in anything other than standing water. Given I don't need to do long motorway journeys in it (but will if I can) and can take the Growler if the weather is foul (not that the ZT400 is sensible in the wet with 400 lb ft and no traction control...) then I would want to have the sticky tyres. Lotus recommend Yoko A048Rs don't they? They're good too, but more expensive than the Toyos. Am I likely to find any second hand cars with these fitted as standard, I seem to recall that some Exiges had 48Rs as standard fitment.
Lastly - traction control. I hate it - is it switchable in the Exige?
Definitely a N/A car will feel gutless compared to a VXT but anything short of an Elise / Exige with an Audi transplant will 'feel' gutless due to turbo torque (2 litre chipped turbo vs. 1.8 supercharged? I'd put the VXT ahead at 3000 rpm but I'm bored s
tless of VXT vs. Lotus arguments... AFAIAC they're the same car with different engines and badges, which is why I've had both and will be buying another ). The question is how long I can live with the lack of torque, but there's no way I'll get rid of it because the Katana charger exists and unless there's some ridiculous waiting list, or the price is crazy, that is definitely the way I'm going to go. The price is more than acceptable so it's really a question of how busy Sinclaires are - and if it only takes a day (as opposed to the 2 weeks the chargers on my 911 and MG ZT took) then I'm sure that won't be a problem either. Kit supply is presumably the only holdup.As to pedal box... well I'm guessing the pre-2006 pedal box is like the early S2 Elise, with the elongated D-shaped throttle? I've driven both - I prefer the VXT pedal setup but the VXT 2-channel ABS was bloody dangerous. The Exige has 4-channel ABS doesn't it? It wouldn't be difficult for any car to have better standard brakes than the VXT, as long as my new Exige doesn't come supplied with Greenduff pads (like many I've seen) then it should be fine. If I buy from a dealer and it's got Greenduff then that's the first thing I'll ask them to change...
The other thing is tyres. The two yellow / black Exiges in the classifieds appear to be running 'normal' looking tyres. I ran Toyo 888s on the VXT and I absolutely loved them in anything other than standing water. Given I don't need to do long motorway journeys in it (but will if I can) and can take the Growler if the weather is foul (not that the ZT400 is sensible in the wet with 400 lb ft and no traction control...) then I would want to have the sticky tyres. Lotus recommend Yoko A048Rs don't they? They're good too, but more expensive than the Toyos. Am I likely to find any second hand cars with these fitted as standard, I seem to recall that some Exiges had 48Rs as standard fitment.
Lastly - traction control. I hate it - is it switchable in the Exige?
cyberface said:
S Works said:
A quick look in the classifieds shows several Exige S's at under £25k. As an alternative, there are also a few Europa S's with the 225 upgrade done which might be worth a look. Especially if you've managed to keep the wheels/tyres from the Astra
No more FFS. I really miss that car, yeah it's got a Vauxhall engine, no, fk it, I'm not rising to the bait. Let me explain further...cyberface said:
I've sat in a Europa, I'm assuming it drives like a VXT but with proper aerodynamics (according to John Thorne, haven't driven one myself) - which means that I'd have to immediately send it to Thorney to remap the engine to get rid of the standard Astra flatspot and also swap the wheels to Exige size to make it handle. I don't have the same prejudices some have about the Europa, nor do I have too much of a problem with the looks.
However I also have no problem flinging myself in and out of even an S1 Elise with a B&C carbon hardtop, so the lower sills and the other creature comforts aren't really a requirement for me. The Exige S2 is like a Merc limo inside compared to the VXT and my old Elise anyway Lovely, comfy and alcantara everywhere. And presumably slightly better ventilation than the VXT.
OK, lets start with your first para. I concur with most of what you note there. I think it's a good car which just needs a little help. Have you had a chat to Thorney to see what they could do with one for you, or to talk about the 225 version with them? I hear it's MUCH better than the initial map.However I also have no problem flinging myself in and out of even an S1 Elise with a B&C carbon hardtop, so the lower sills and the other creature comforts aren't really a requirement for me. The Exige S2 is like a Merc limo inside compared to the VXT and my old Elise anyway
Lovely, comfy and alcantara everywhere. And presumably slightly better ventilation than the VXT.Regarding the 'limo' comment, I take your point vs. an S1, but I'm pretty sure that a Europa will ride much more like a limo than the banging, crashy ride of an Exige with standard suspension. It's bad, very bad.
cyberface said:
As to Nitrons - if they're significantly harder or offer too much adjustment (which I'm not expert enough to do properly, therefore I'm likely to make the handling worse rather than better), then I'd probably be better off with the standard dampers. I actually like a compliant ride and have no problem with weight transfer on track (all that time in 911s) - the VXT was compromised but I actually rather liked it Perhaps I have weird taste but I know what I enjoy driving and I don't care for 'accepted dogma' - and given I'm not going to be racing, the last couple of seconds per lap are of little consequence. It'll be mostly road miles with (hopefully) 5-10 trackdays per year.
Don't dismiss the comment about Nitrons. Whilst the std suspension on the Europa should be fine for your intended use, the OEM kit on the Exige is rubbish. Good quality adjustables, with well thought out spring rates will make for a very compliant ride in whatever application you specify them for. I had Nitrons on very stiff springs, and they were without fail better than standard Exige ones. With people like Chris Randalls around offering help with getting them 'just right' for a very small premium, if and when you do need to change, it would seem sensible to spec the best you can for your money, taking advice from people who really know how to get the best for your requirements, road or track biased. Perhaps I have weird taste but I know what I enjoy driving and I don't care for 'accepted dogma' - and given I'm not going to be racing, the last couple of seconds per lap are of little consequence. It'll be mostly road miles with (hopefully) 5-10 trackdays per year.cyberface said:
What is tempting is the N/A Exiges (esp. yellow with black wheels, like my old VXT) at less than £20k (two around £19k, presumably possible to haggle down a bit). That way I can try the car in its 'pure' lighter form, and if the high-rev nature of the engine winds me up then I can then supercharge it, without having to go the whole hog up front. After all, I may find the N/A Exige absolutely fine for my taste. Personally I think that's unlikely but for only £5k for the charger upgrade I can always do that in a couple of months when I have more cash.
I know that with Lotuses it's usually a good idea to buy the newest car you can afford, due to improvements made on the production line from experience and feedback from owners. Are there any obvious issues that were ironed out in later models, so, for example, a 2004 car would be a bad idea? The two yellow 2004 cars below £19k in the classifieds are very tempting, but if there are known issues with them then I'd like to get my research straight first.
I understand your thoughts, having been there earlier this year when I bought my 4th Elise (I considered getting an NA Exige with remap, and drove one to see how I felt about it, 2 years down the line with the new map). I didn't buy one for a number of reasons, largely because it just didn't feel quick enough, combined with all the gripes that I had the first time I drove one a couple of years back (poorly sprung/damped, terrible rear view, horrible long throw of the gearbox, awful pedal feel placement, inability to heel/toe effectively...). As for lighter form, you've gotta be joking, surely?I know that with Lotuses it's usually a good idea to buy the newest car you can afford, due to improvements made on the production line from experience and feedback from owners. Are there any obvious issues that were ironed out in later models, so, for example, a 2004 car would be a bad idea? The two yellow 2004 cars below £19k in the classifieds are very tempting, but if there are known issues with them then I'd like to get my research straight first.
If you do go that route though, I'd budget a bit more than the charger cost. You'll probably want to uprate the brakes, so if they've not been done remember to add in cash for braided lines and some meatier pads. Also I'd recommend trying to get test drives in cars with both the regular map, and the revised one. The latter I found much more appealing, but it's very "horses for courses" I think.
Re: earlier cars. I've been warned off the very earliest Toyota engined cars (first year of production, which I think was 2004)) because of fears of them being prone to oil cavitation issues and bearings going bang. I believe modifcations were made to the oil distribution channels in the engine to improve this, but I've never had any firm evidence of 'fact' around that. Might be worth talking to some specialists and those who've had 'yota engines go bang to find out more before making a final choice. Obviously if you're going to consider forced induction down the line, it would pay to get an expert opinion on suitability now.
You seem very keen on this Katana set-up, but for similar money you'll probably be able to get an Exige S where you're not running the risk of having a bolt-on which is still (to my mind), being proven.
Best of luck with finding the new steed.
Edited by S Works on Sunday 16th November 23:04
If you want a s1 with a honda, look in the classified as there is an black S1 at Pure Lotus for about £25 with a supercharged honda in it.
If you want a S2 go for a cup car. I drove all the varients and the cup240 is the one I went home with as it felt so much faster than the others. Its also got uprated brakes, suspension, acusump and a limited slip diff etc and traction control which can be switched off. There is one for sale on Exiges.com for about 26-27k. I sold mine recently and would buy another one of these when Im out of the credit crunch!
If you want a S2 go for a cup car. I drove all the varients and the cup240 is the one I went home with as it felt so much faster than the others. Its also got uprated brakes, suspension, acusump and a limited slip diff etc and traction control which can be switched off. There is one for sale on Exiges.com for about 26-27k. I sold mine recently and would buy another one of these when Im out of the credit crunch!
Tim - no worries - just the inbuilt defensiveness of anyone who has owned a VXT, thoroughly enjoyed it, and then got relentlessly flamed on Elise forums due to the behaviour of some called GerryM who gave us all a bad name...
Cheers for the info about the suspension. Is it really *that* bad or only bad when compared to perfectly set up track cars? My use is B road blasting, any drive that doesn't include taking the girlfriend (including 450 mile round trips to see my sister) and track days, in that order (number of miles). Track sg it ain't - I loved the VXT on the road (even more so than the Noble) and part of this was due to the compliant suspension. Yes, this made weight transfer an issue that needed active control (much like a 911, which I have loads of experience with sliding around!) but even though it lost out to rock-hard Elise S1s and Exiges on the track, I preferred the handling. I guess I'll need to just find an unmodified Exige S2 and take it for a good hard thrash. Hopefully some friendly dealer (B&C certainly didn't mind me hooning two of their S1s when I bought the Super 160 off them) will let me actually lean on the suspension round some bends and find out...
The thing is that given the much higher initial purchase price compared to another VXT, I don't want to buy a Lotus to find that I need to immediately spend cash on it. Firstly, because rates are low and buying a car from a dealer allows a finance deal for the main amount, in today's climate liquidity is king and I have very little intention of putting down huge deposits or spending large quantities of 'real' cash. The supercharger kit is £5k factored into the planned purchase - new suspension, tyres (still not sure whether they come as standard with stickies, the cars in the classifieds have a motley crew of tyres) and suspension setup (which I'm not skilled enough to do myself, and I know how much the specialists charge to set up suspension since I'd need to tell them my driving style, which after lots of 911 driving is perhaps a bit different to your average Elise trackdayer) are all additional costs that I'm trying to avoid.
The really funny thing is that I immediately assumed that, after all the sgging the VXT gets on Lotus forums, the Exige would be immeasurably better in every respect, and coming (very happily) from a VXT to an Exige, I'd not need to make any modifications at all. To be told that the Exige OEM kit is 'crap' got me chuckling, for sure. Is the gearshift *that* bad? I know the engine and box are completely different but the VXT shift was excellent (compared to the S1 Elise). That's not the easiest thing to change...
And there's always my natural itch to modify cars to worry about... the only car I didn't arse about with was the Noble and if I'd kept it any longer I'd probably have started messing about with that. I'm rather contradicting myself here since I'm seriously talking about getting an N/A car and bunging a supercharger on it, but the endless tinkering with adjustable dampers, spring rates, etc. sounds like race territory (or obsessive trackday nerds who should, in fact, bite the bullet and go racing).
Apart from this, the Exige sounds absolutely perfect for me - the S1 with hardtop and stupidly loud induction kit was simply too uncomfortable for me (30 miles and I wished I was wearing earplugs and my arse was numb), but the VXT was lovely even for 450 mile drives. And given that the VXT is sort-of an S1.5 car, I'm expecting the Exige to be as uncomfortable and noisy as my mate's S2 Elise with an unlined hardtop, but no worse. Correct me if I'm wrong!
I suppose I need to get out there and do some test drives.
called GerryM who gave us all a bad name...Cheers for the info about the suspension. Is it really *that* bad or only bad when compared to perfectly set up track cars? My use is B road blasting, any drive that doesn't include taking the girlfriend (including 450 mile round trips to see my sister) and track days, in that order (number of miles). Track s
g it ain't - I loved the VXT on the road (even more so than the Noble) and part of this was due to the compliant suspension. Yes, this made weight transfer an issue that needed active control (much like a 911, which I have loads of experience with sliding around!) but even though it lost out to rock-hard Elise S1s and Exiges on the track, I preferred the handling. I guess I'll need to just find an unmodified Exige S2 and take it for a good hard thrash. Hopefully some friendly dealer (B&C certainly didn't mind me hooning two of their S1s when I bought the Super 160 off them) will let me actually lean on the suspension round some bends and find out...The thing is that given the much higher initial purchase price compared to another VXT, I don't want to buy a Lotus to find that I need to immediately spend cash on it. Firstly, because rates are low and buying a car from a dealer allows a finance deal for the main amount, in today's climate liquidity is king and I have very little intention of putting down huge deposits or spending large quantities of 'real' cash. The supercharger kit is £5k factored into the planned purchase - new suspension, tyres (still not sure whether they come as standard with stickies, the cars in the classifieds have a motley crew of tyres) and suspension setup (which I'm not skilled enough to do myself, and I know how much the specialists charge to set up suspension since I'd need to tell them my driving style, which after lots of 911 driving is perhaps a bit different to your average Elise trackdayer) are all additional costs that I'm trying to avoid.
The really funny thing is that I immediately assumed that, after all the s
gging the VXT gets on Lotus forums, the Exige would be immeasurably better in every respect, and coming (very happily) from a VXT to an Exige, I'd not need to make any modifications at all. To be told that the Exige OEM kit is 'crap' got me chuckling, for sure. Is the gearshift *that* bad? I know the engine and box are completely different but the VXT shift was excellent (compared to the S1 Elise). That's not the easiest thing to change...And there's always my natural itch to modify cars to worry about... the only car I didn't arse about with was the Noble and if I'd kept it any longer I'd probably have started messing about with that. I'm rather contradicting myself here since I'm seriously talking about getting an N/A car and bunging a supercharger on it, but the endless tinkering with adjustable dampers, spring rates, etc. sounds like race territory (or obsessive trackday nerds who should, in fact, bite the bullet and go racing).
Apart from this, the Exige sounds absolutely perfect for me - the S1 with hardtop and stupidly loud induction kit was simply too uncomfortable for me (30 miles and I wished I was wearing earplugs and my arse was numb), but the VXT was lovely even for 450 mile drives. And given that the VXT is sort-of an S1.5 car, I'm expecting the Exige to be as uncomfortable and noisy as my mate's S2 Elise with an unlined hardtop, but no worse. Correct me if I'm wrong!
I suppose I need to get out there and do some test drives.
I've just moved from 993 (supercharged for part of its life) to a S2 Exige, which to be honest I bought on an impulse. I fancied something lightweight and raw and in the main I got it.
I don't find the suspension a problem at all, it crashes a bit on poor roads, but I guessed it would and overall its quite comfortable.
I am used to more powerful cars, particularly with more torque and whilst I probably would not say no to a bit more midrange the N/A engine is all about revs and life beyond 6,200 when it really comes to life. Its not brutal and, but it is lots of fun.
I am thinking of testing an S just to see what its like and who knows what I’ll think then…..
I don't find the suspension a problem at all, it crashes a bit on poor roads, but I guessed it would and overall its quite comfortable.
I am used to more powerful cars, particularly with more torque and whilst I probably would not say no to a bit more midrange the N/A engine is all about revs and life beyond 6,200 when it really comes to life. Its not brutal and, but it is lots of fun.
I am thinking of testing an S just to see what its like and who knows what I’ll think then…..
james S said:
whilst I probably would not say no to a bit more midrange the N/A engine is all about revs and life beyond 6,200 when it really comes to life
Yep, that's the problem... my current car redlines well below that and produces around 420 lb ft at 2000 rpm... I like that sort of motor... however it weighs as much as an entire S1 Elise and wouldn't fit in the back of an Exige 
It's looking like the best bet financially is to buy an N/A car, put up with the engine for a couple of months whilst I see how the fund management market shakes out (will be out of contract in late December, perhaps), then bung on the supercharger, any other bits (brake pads, still need to try the cars before thinking about Tim's suspension idea), then if things go well mid next year can go for chargecoolers and then will have the best of all worlds.
The VXT was crashy and raw - not so much as a N/A VX220, nowhere near as bad as an S1 Elise, but around the same type of rawness as an S2 Elise with a K-series. Handling with 888s on Exige size wheels was sharp and neutral-to-tail-happy - drove *very* much like a 911 with the heavy tail and really needed trail braking into corners to nail the front and come out with a whiff of oppo.
With all the comfy fittings inside an S2 Exige (compared to the VXT!) I can only imagine it being loud and uncomfortable due to needing to spin the motor past 6k rpm and if Lotus have bunged some stupid cone filter right next to the bulkhead. Air filters I can swap around, but an engine that only works at 6k+ rpm will make for noisy, frantic progress. OK on track with a lid on, but will be irritating on road (but a 6-speed gearbox may make long cruises acceptable). That's my main reason for liking superchargers - low-down and midrange torque... especially if the gearbox in the Lotus isn't exactly up to MX-5 / S2000 quality
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