is an elise a more useable caterham?
Discussion
have looked at caterhams for at least 12 months now and have been so close to buying , i have had 2 on hire and last time took the wife for final approval.she hated it ! probably my driving so i am now back to drawing board ,an elise could be an alternative so we had a look at and took out a series 1 , i thought it was quite good not as raw or quick as a caterham but i think it would be a fair and more useable compromise, done a bit of research and k series HGF is on most forums my questions are how common a problem is it , my budget could run to series 2 are these better or should i just wait till toyota power is more affordable.
If you like caterhams you will arguably be better off with a series 1 (which are generally cheaper too) as they are more raw, slightly lighter and more basic. HGF is normally a £500ish fix at a garage and only happens to a small number of cars so in the grand scheme of buying one this should not put you off.
An Elise is a big step below most day-to-day cars in practicality and general comfort, but a Caterham is the same difference again. I've owned my S1 for about 5 months now, done nearly 7k as my daily drive and it's currently coming up to 72,000 miles on its original head gasket. Genuinely, if you let it warm up before booting it, look out for the warning signs and keep the oil fresh it shouldn't let you down more than any other car.
A friend of mine's had a Westfield as a weekend car for about three years now and he's thinking of chopping it in for an Elise because it doesn't get enough use, you really can only use Caterhams for driving in the sun when you're not planning on carrying any luggage. You can take an Elise to the shops, if you can put up with the exhaust you can even do long drives in it, I imagine a Caterham would be a lot less comfortable for big journeys...
A friend of mine's had a Westfield as a weekend car for about three years now and he's thinking of chopping it in for an Elise because it doesn't get enough use, you really can only use Caterhams for driving in the sun when you're not planning on carrying any luggage. You can take an Elise to the shops, if you can put up with the exhaust you can even do long drives in it, I imagine a Caterham would be a lot less comfortable for big journeys...
I had a Dax Rush before the Elise- similar to caterham. Good fun but just not in any way practical, ok for drives out but thats it!
The Elise beats it hands down,it can easily handle commuting- getting a bit of shopping in and plenty of people including myself have loaded it up and gone on a weeks driving holiday (inc wife + shoes) without any complaints.
I've had mine over six years now and haven't had any trouble with it at all. The main thing with the K is to warm it up properly before giving it any stick.
Let it get to 86 degrees -give it another few minutes, and off you go.
K versus Yota engine is another issue,I've not driven the later but am reliably informed they drive quite differently, probably best to try both if the budget is not an issue.
If you get a well loved S1 from an enthusiast with a few extras on it (exhaust ect) i'm sure you wouldn't regret it.
Dunx.
The Elise beats it hands down,it can easily handle commuting- getting a bit of shopping in and plenty of people including myself have loaded it up and gone on a weeks driving holiday (inc wife + shoes) without any complaints.
I've had mine over six years now and haven't had any trouble with it at all. The main thing with the K is to warm it up properly before giving it any stick.
Let it get to 86 degrees -give it another few minutes, and off you go.
K versus Yota engine is another issue,I've not driven the later but am reliably informed they drive quite differently, probably best to try both if the budget is not an issue.
If you get a well loved S1 from an enthusiast with a few extras on it (exhaust ect) i'm sure you wouldn't regret it.
Dunx.
dunxS1 said:
I had a Dax Rush before the Elise- similar to caterham. Good fun but just not in any way practical, ok for drives out but thats it!
The Elise beats it hands down,it can easily handle commuting- getting a bit of shopping in and plenty of people including myself have loaded it up and gone on a weeks driving holiday (inc wife + shoes) without any complaints.
I've had mine over six years now and haven't had any trouble with it at all. The main thing with the K is to warm it up properly before giving it any stick.
Let it get to 86 degrees -give it another few minutes, and off you go.
K versus Yota engine is another issue,I've not driven the later but am reliably informed they drive quite differently, probably best to try both if the budget is not an issue.
If you get a well loved S1 from an enthusiast with a few extras on it (exhaust ect) i'm sure you wouldn't regret it.
Dunx.
Ding a ling... I used to have a Sylva Striker, again similar to a Caterham. I used to commute 700 miles a week in it, filling it with petrol at least once a day, if not twice..The Elise beats it hands down,it can easily handle commuting- getting a bit of shopping in and plenty of people including myself have loaded it up and gone on a weeks driving holiday (inc wife + shoes) without any complaints.
I've had mine over six years now and haven't had any trouble with it at all. The main thing with the K is to warm it up properly before giving it any stick.
Let it get to 86 degrees -give it another few minutes, and off you go.
K versus Yota engine is another issue,I've not driven the later but am reliably informed they drive quite differently, probably best to try both if the budget is not an issue.
If you get a well loved S1 from an enthusiast with a few extras on it (exhaust ect) i'm sure you wouldn't regret it.
Dunx.
I wouldn't change my Elise for a Caterham unless if I could honestly say it was a track day car only, with the occasional road blast about. My personal circumstance is, young family, single income and the Elise is now enjoying it's 2nd winter parked away in the garage, before that it was my everyday transport. So, what I am saying is, I don't have the time very often to just go out and enjoy a fun car for me only, hence a Caterham would be way way down on my list. The Elise is perfect, holidays, weekend breaks, track days, road blasts the lot are easily achieved and I use it in the summer for the commute, the long way to work
My wife also enjoys the Elise, she would happily go out with a girlfriend to a local pub after a day looking after the kids, which can be somewhat challenging.
Much of a repeat of everything above. There are a fair few elise owners that have changed (note, not up/down graded) from caterhams, sylva's, westfields and for myself from a bike-engined Fisher Fury.
I don't use a car day-to-day but I was finding that there were journeys where I just couldn't be arsed to spend the extra effort dragging the Fury out the garage and fiddling with harnesses, etc. Or where I knew that where I was going I'd be paranoid about parking it, etc.
The elise replacement then is probably used twice as much then more through just being a far more practical proposition. Just jump in and use it like a normal car.
There's no way it's going to match the Fury for pure excitement and raw thrills but I'd say it's at least 80% there. And despite being slower on paper I'm now beating my previous tracktimes in the elise over the Fury...
I don't use a car day-to-day but I was finding that there were journeys where I just couldn't be arsed to spend the extra effort dragging the Fury out the garage and fiddling with harnesses, etc. Or where I knew that where I was going I'd be paranoid about parking it, etc.
The elise replacement then is probably used twice as much then more through just being a far more practical proposition. Just jump in and use it like a normal car.
There's no way it's going to match the Fury for pure excitement and raw thrills but I'd say it's at least 80% there. And despite being slower on paper I'm now beating my previous tracktimes in the elise over the Fury...
As I'm in the fortunate position of having an S2 Exige and an R500 in garage I'm pretty well qualified to pass comment.
In my opinion there chalk and chese: my last Elise I used as a daily driver and did 30k miles in three years with no issues. The Exige has done around 3k this year as its more than usable when the weathers touch and go where as the R500's done around 1k miles, most of it on track.
My misses hates both but hates the Caterham more
As anything other than a toy I'd have to say that Caterhams are pretty poor.
Mark
In my opinion there chalk and chese: my last Elise I used as a daily driver and did 30k miles in three years with no issues. The Exige has done around 3k this year as its more than usable when the weathers touch and go where as the R500's done around 1k miles, most of it on track.
My misses hates both but hates the Caterham more
As anything other than a toy I'd have to say that Caterhams are pretty poor.
Mark
well a bit more info to this is we already have an 2001 mx5 and my wife uses it as a daily driver and i must admit i ilke it as well i have a mk3 gti, originally i thought we would replace mx5 but after driving elise i think we will have elise as additional and use as a toy , thats what i would have done with a caterham , however wife liked ! elise so decision is almost made.
What model then is next question remembering i would like a little bit of go ,series 1 i tried was 120bhp and and didnt seem over quick but would probably be enough, but what model would be the best blend of speed but still a little bit reliable , another question is with the sort of use i have in mind would i get cheap limited mileage insurance as i would with a caterham , i am over 40, garage, clean license etc .
What model then is next question remembering i would like a little bit of go ,series 1 i tried was 120bhp and and didnt seem over quick but would probably be enough, but what model would be the best blend of speed but still a little bit reliable , another question is with the sort of use i have in mind would i get cheap limited mileage insurance as i would with a caterham , i am over 40, garage, clean license etc .
I have a 111r and just this week used it in a snow storm, not out of choice but was actually fine. I dont use it as a daily drive but i have every faith it would be excellent.
With the right tyres I can see no reason why you cannot use it everyday. I have a 08 118d oil burner and the elise is way more comfortable on long jouneys. if you get a s2 upgrade to probax seats and it will be a joy to use
With the right tyres I can see no reason why you cannot use it everyday. I have a 08 118d oil burner and the elise is way more comfortable on long jouneys. if you get a s2 upgrade to probax seats and it will be a joy to use
I've owned one of each and each one was my only car for a while (I'm lucky enough to live close to work!).
I started with a Caterham. Fantastic car, obviously but I would not go back to one unless I had a trailer and could use it purely as a toy. Long journeys give you a head-ache, in the rain you have to be super-alert at all times (which can be difficult when you're peering through a steamed-up screen with rain running down the back of your neck from the leaky hood), other drivers just don’t see you (even if it’s yellow & has the loudest exhaust in the world).
In the Elise I can drive all the way to the Nurburgring in the pouring rain & arrive fresh as a daisy. There’s also a bit of me that thinks the Elise actually handles better too. The Caterham is pretty much always either understeering or oversteering when you’re driving it hard whereas the Elise feels much more poised and classy to me.
For 30 minutes of hooliganism on a track or a quick B road blat the Caterham is the best car in the world. For anything more than that I’d take the Elise any day.
Cheers
Jim
(biased S2 owner)
I started with a Caterham. Fantastic car, obviously but I would not go back to one unless I had a trailer and could use it purely as a toy. Long journeys give you a head-ache, in the rain you have to be super-alert at all times (which can be difficult when you're peering through a steamed-up screen with rain running down the back of your neck from the leaky hood), other drivers just don’t see you (even if it’s yellow & has the loudest exhaust in the world).
In the Elise I can drive all the way to the Nurburgring in the pouring rain & arrive fresh as a daisy. There’s also a bit of me that thinks the Elise actually handles better too. The Caterham is pretty much always either understeering or oversteering when you’re driving it hard whereas the Elise feels much more poised and classy to me.
For 30 minutes of hooliganism on a track or a quick B road blat the Caterham is the best car in the world. For anything more than that I’d take the Elise any day.
Cheers
Jim
(biased S2 owner)
I got rid of my 911 in July and wanted something much more hardcore. I had pretty much decided on a Caterham, as I wanted something raw and inexpensive to run. A colleague bought an R300 and let me have a drive. I loved it and found it quite civilised to drive, but realised I could quickly tire of the hassle of not being able to park it anywhere, having to rely on the weather etc etc.
A couple of people also pointed out to me that on the road thay are hard to see and if someone hits you you've got little more protection than a on bike!
On a whim I looked at an Exige and bought it. It is fantastic, docile in trafic, but wild(ish) on second cam. I could drive it to work everyday if I wanted - very usable indeed.
I bet we won't see the Caterham at work until April and then only once a month. Mine will make a visit most weeks I guess
They are very very different however
A couple of people also pointed out to me that on the road thay are hard to see and if someone hits you you've got little more protection than a on bike!
On a whim I looked at an Exige and bought it. It is fantastic, docile in trafic, but wild(ish) on second cam. I could drive it to work everyday if I wanted - very usable indeed.
I bet we won't see the Caterham at work until April and then only once a month. Mine will make a visit most weeks I guess
They are very very different however
The 'best' all round S1 is generally regarded as the 111S (143bhp VVC) engine. The sport 160 gives as near as dammit 160 bhp but is a more track focused car, being a bit grumpy around town and at low revs but comes alive as the tacho climbs.
Have a look at the DVA power website for an idea of what can be done with the K engine.
Rather than worry about hgf I'd be more concerned about the suspension (see current thread running on rebuilds).
FWIW I wouldn't want to drive 300+ miles to a hotel in the evening, do a track the next day and drive 300+ miles home in any form of Caterham. I happily do it in the Elise and even have audible music
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how usable an Elise is and how upgradeable it is too.
Have a look at the DVA power website for an idea of what can be done with the K engine.
Rather than worry about hgf I'd be more concerned about the suspension (see current thread running on rebuilds).
FWIW I wouldn't want to drive 300+ miles to a hotel in the evening, do a track the next day and drive 300+ miles home in any form of Caterham. I happily do it in the Elise and even have audible music
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how usable an Elise is and how upgradeable it is too.
http://www.elises.co.uk/ lots of info on models ect,
insurace, i'm with flux,
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Dunx.
insurace, i'm with flux,
Admiral 0800 600 800
Adrian Flux (10% discount SELOC) - 0870 0777888
Arian flux 01533774477
Aplan 01494 677776
Argos 0800 015 4835
ASDA 0845 300 2310
Auto Torque 0161 278 5226
Bell Direct / Admiral 0800 140 180
budget
CCI / EggerLawson 0115 941 5255
cheam
Chris Knott 0800 917 2274
Direct Line 0845 246 8701
Egger Lawson / CCI 0115 941 5255
Elephant 0870 0401 140
Footman James - 0121 561 4196
Frizzel
Insurance world 01604 615415
Liverpool Victoria 01202 292 333
Lotus / AON / Esteem (Official) 01483 706 051
More Than / Hastings 0800 072 4186
Norwich Union Direct 0800 092 9564
Priviledge 0845 246 0275
Quoteline Direct 0870 442 9049
Tesco 0845 300 4400
Dunx.
I wrote quite a long winded reply to this and then Internet Explorer crashed before I posted it. I love Microsoft!
Anyway, back on topic. I've had a couple of Westfields and now have a S1 111s. I admire people who use Sevens everyday but my tolerance levels couldn't stretch that far. I loved having a car like that tucked in the garage waiting for the weather to be right and I loved the occassional commute in it and even the odd long journey but I could never put up with using one every single day. I'd love another but only when I can afford one as a total toy and have another nice car to use daily.
I'm sure some people even on the Elise Forum will agree that a Seven of some kind is capable of putting a bigger smile on your face than an Elise when the conditons are right but my Elise is doing five times the annual mileage my Westfields ever did and putting lots more smiles on my face!
Areas where I think a Seven is better:
Sense of occassion
Running costs as a track car
Sheer fun
Carrying capacity (you can get loads in or on a Caterham)
Rarity, you'll not see another on your way to work
Simple to work on
Areas where the Elise is better:
Steering
Looks (subjective, but I love the curves)
Security, i.e. things can be left in an Elise
They have a radio, which can be heard at any speed one might conside appropriate for the road.
An analogue heater, i.e not one that has two settings; arctic or burnt leg.
Its waterproof (or at least should be and can be with careful adjustment)
You can treat it like a car, i.e. just get in and drive
Ultimately it all comes down to personal tolerance levels though, not one of my colleagues considers my Elise to be an acceptable form of transport but I love it. Maybe others have a higher tolerance and would love a seven as everyday transport.
Anyway, back on topic. I've had a couple of Westfields and now have a S1 111s. I admire people who use Sevens everyday but my tolerance levels couldn't stretch that far. I loved having a car like that tucked in the garage waiting for the weather to be right and I loved the occassional commute in it and even the odd long journey but I could never put up with using one every single day. I'd love another but only when I can afford one as a total toy and have another nice car to use daily.
I'm sure some people even on the Elise Forum will agree that a Seven of some kind is capable of putting a bigger smile on your face than an Elise when the conditons are right but my Elise is doing five times the annual mileage my Westfields ever did and putting lots more smiles on my face!
Areas where I think a Seven is better:
Sense of occassion
Running costs as a track car
Sheer fun
Carrying capacity (you can get loads in or on a Caterham)
Rarity, you'll not see another on your way to work
Simple to work on
Areas where the Elise is better:
Steering
Looks (subjective, but I love the curves)
Security, i.e. things can be left in an Elise
They have a radio, which can be heard at any speed one might conside appropriate for the road.
An analogue heater, i.e not one that has two settings; arctic or burnt leg.
Its waterproof (or at least should be and can be with careful adjustment)
You can treat it like a car, i.e. just get in and drive
Ultimately it all comes down to personal tolerance levels though, not one of my colleagues considers my Elise to be an acceptable form of transport but I love it. Maybe others have a higher tolerance and would love a seven as everyday transport.
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