Elise - Why is the S2 so much heavier? Will S3 be a porker?
Discussion
kambites said:
M030ef00 said:
Why is the S2, even stripped down, so much heavier? I can't see that it's dynamically better and it's no bigger inside. (I know they messed with the sills tho')
What does this mean for the S3 - 1500kgs? :-)
The S2 is only about 50kg heavier than the S1 in standard form. What does this mean for the S3 - 1500kgs? :-)
a late S1 111S was 760Kg ish and an Early S2 K series was 780Kg ish
it was the toyota engine, with its heavier subframe, engine,gearbox, ABS and other gizmos that took it up to 860Kg ...then of course put the touring pack in with that nice sound deadening etc and thats another 35Kg
so if you want the S2 looks but S1 weight, stick to a Rover engined one ...even the S2 111S with aircon and leccy bits was "only" 815Kg
Anyway, theres no need for the S3 to be heavier, although it is supposed to be having those 5mph impact bumpers for the US market, so unless they offer more engine options that are heavier (cant see a V6 Elise myself, not with the Evora on the way) or want to pack in more safety kit I cant see it having to break the 1000Kg limit ...which is near where a fully specced S2 Exige is now.
This "heavy subframe", also reffered as a negative of the VX, is an opportunity for small workshops to build a CF lighter version. Its not part of crash so just a case of making it stiff/strong enough. swap in swap out. (or?)
Much better than CF bodywork or nick nacks which cost a fortune with little to gain.
Maybe Lotus could build them as official upgrades, and make a few bob if their GRP people are thumb twiddling, whilst sweetening their dealer franshises and workshops. Theres a lot of legacy models and customers with oft described "heavy" subframes.
The main down size is it would cost a fortune to fit!!, maybe only worthwhile during major prangs/mech work.
edited to make more sense
Much better than CF bodywork or nick nacks which cost a fortune with little to gain.
Maybe Lotus could build them as official upgrades, and make a few bob if their GRP people are thumb twiddling, whilst sweetening their dealer franshises and workshops. Theres a lot of legacy models and customers with oft described "heavy" subframes.
The main down size is it would cost a fortune to fit!!, maybe only worthwhile during major prangs/mech work.
edited to make more sense
Edited by bencollins on Sunday 14th December 14:17
bencollins said:
This heavy subframe, also reffed for the VX is an opportunity for small workshops to build a CF lighter version. Its not part of crash so just a case of making it stiff/strong enough. swap in swap out. (or?)
Much better than CF bodywork which would cost a fortune with little to gain.
Maybe Lotus could build em if their GRP people are thumb twiddling.
I doubt the subframe is not part of the rear crash structure. If Lotus couldn't make an alloy subframe work, I'm not sure I'd trust one made of Carbon fibre from an after-market company. The cost to weight saving would mean you would be better off spending the money on other weight savings which can also double as an improvemnt; like lighter brakes which work better and save unsprung weight. But I'm no car engineer,so that could all be complete crap.Much better than CF bodywork which would cost a fortune with little to gain.
Maybe Lotus could build em if their GRP people are thumb twiddling.
haha, fair comment, tho i do try to be a car engineer, the odd bit of crap comes out from time to time! It was more a suggestion worm for people to nibble on. The much requested carbon fibre bodywork option by the unwitting punter is particularly. pointless IMO for weight saving/cost yield. Its more a question of;
Frame kg now, potential CF frame weight saving, extra cost, worthwhile yield?
Frame kg now, potential CF frame weight saving, extra cost, worthwhile yield?
eowen said:
Depends on the spec ;-)
My one off factory special S2 "X" R is apparently bang on 700kgs. No AC, Reverie Carbon fibre seats, lightweight racing battery, lightweight forged wheels.
LOL ...a Toyota engined one under 800Kg would be a sight to see so I think you must be at least errrr 100kg out there My one off factory special S2 "X" R is apparently bang on 700kgs. No AC, Reverie Carbon fibre seats, lightweight racing battery, lightweight forged wheels.
ETA: as for carbon subframes and such like - if you have tens of thousands to spend, why not build the whole thing from CF, everything...as with anything given enough money Lotus could indeed "keep with weight down" ...but might not sell many £100K Elises
Edited by bogie on Sunday 14th December 18:59
bogie said:
eowen said:
Depends on the spec ;-)
My one off factory special S2 "X" R is apparently bang on 700kgs. No AC, Reverie Carbon fibre seats, lightweight racing battery, lightweight forged wheels.
LOL ...a Toyota engined one under 800Kg would be a sight to see so I think you must be at least errrr 100kg out there My one off factory special S2 "X" R is apparently bang on 700kgs. No AC, Reverie Carbon fibre seats, lightweight racing battery, lightweight forged wheels.
Esprit said:
bogie said:
eowen said:
Depends on the spec ;-)
My one off factory special S2 "X" R is apparently bang on 700kgs. No AC, Reverie Carbon fibre seats, lightweight racing battery, lightweight forged wheels.
LOL ...a Toyota engined one under 800Kg would be a sight to see so I think you must be at least errrr 100kg out there My one off factory special S2 "X" R is apparently bang on 700kgs. No AC, Reverie Carbon fibre seats, lightweight racing battery, lightweight forged wheels.
No need for them to do anything other than re-body the Elise at some point IMO. Why spend money redeveloping something that is already a proven design. They would do well to further improve quality, add some more power, come up with some truly great specials (a la the 135R's of old), perhaps a truly 'lightweight' version for track enthusiasts... an S3 isn't required if you ask me.
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