Discussion
I've always fancied a bike, and after years of persistant low grade nagging, the wife has finally said I can get one, assuming all my life insurance is up to date....
My Exige is only really for weekends and track days so hard(er) to justify keeping it and adding a £5k sportsbike to the garage. So I'm debating whether to relinquish lotus ownership for a while and have some fun on two wheels.
So I'm wondering... anyone out there gone from lotus to bike, or has both? Obviouslly its not really that comparable, but on a smiles per mile basis, which do you enjoy more? If it's a sunny day, which would you climb into/onto first? How do track days on a bike compare to the car? (more dangerous, clearly. And it would be a while before I'd do one on a bike)
My Exige is only really for weekends and track days so hard(er) to justify keeping it and adding a £5k sportsbike to the garage. So I'm debating whether to relinquish lotus ownership for a while and have some fun on two wheels.
So I'm wondering... anyone out there gone from lotus to bike, or has both? Obviouslly its not really that comparable, but on a smiles per mile basis, which do you enjoy more? If it's a sunny day, which would you climb into/onto first? How do track days on a bike compare to the car? (more dangerous, clearly. And it would be a while before I'd do one on a bike)
mrh3113 said:
I've always fancied a bike, and after years of persistant low grade nagging, the wife has finally said I can get one, assuming all my life insurance is up to date....
My Exige is only really for weekends and track days so hard(er) to justify keeping it and adding a £5k sportsbike to the garage. So I'm debating whether to relinquish lotus ownership for a while and have some fun on two wheels.
So I'm wondering... anyone out there gone from lotus to bike, or has both? Obviouslly its not really that comparable, but on a smiles per mile basis, which do you enjoy more? If it's a sunny day, which would you climb into/onto first? How do track days on a bike compare to the car? (more dangerous, clearly. And it would be a while before I'd do one on a bike)
Chalk and cheese.My Exige is only really for weekends and track days so hard(er) to justify keeping it and adding a £5k sportsbike to the garage. So I'm debating whether to relinquish lotus ownership for a while and have some fun on two wheels.
So I'm wondering... anyone out there gone from lotus to bike, or has both? Obviouslly its not really that comparable, but on a smiles per mile basis, which do you enjoy more? If it's a sunny day, which would you climb into/onto first? How do track days on a bike compare to the car? (more dangerous, clearly. And it would be a while before I'd do one on a bike)
Nothing like the open road on bike.
That said if i was only going to do a 5 - 10 mile trip I'd take the Lotus, I would be there before I could put all my leathers boots on etc, then there's the 10 minutes of getting the bike out of the garage and checking it over / warming it up before the off.
Track days on a bike are a hoot so long as the idiots are reigned in from the start (there's always one).
All in all I prefer a bike for long trips to france for bike endurance races Le Mans Spa Etc, bikes are cheaper to get across the water
I bought a bike for some thrills whilst the insurance company were messing me about with the VXT. Now the claim is settled I've got a nice yellow Exige S. However I haven't got rid of the bike.
Completely different feelings - the bike acceleration is mental, and when you're reasonably inexperienced like me and have a good imagination, riding quickly is much harder than driving quickly. It's an art form to get a bunch of corners perfectly.
However the Lotus is all about the corners, and you can't corner as fast on a bike as you can with an Elise / Exige with good tyres. On a bike, unless you've got *serious* experience and some talent, most of your fun will be the sheer straight-line acceleration and the 'freedom of the open road' - it's a cliché but true. Nothing else feels like a bike. With talent and practice comes faster cornering (all that knee down malarkey) but it's not clear that cornering *that* hard on the road is a sensible idea. Apart from the nutters, most bikers adopt a 'point-and-squirt' technique.
Downsides are that you'll hurt yourself, usually badly, if you crash a bike, and it's *very* easy to crash a bike. I won't ride my bike during winter / ice / very wet conditions, risk outweighs reward IMO (sports bikes here, I commuted to the station on a fast (100 mph 2 stroke Gilera) scooter all year round but that wasn't going particularly fast.
Definitely fun to have both, but I find that if I've got a Lotus (or VXT) handy then I'll usually choose that over the bike. Very nice to have a bike for summer weekends though
Mine's an old CBR600 and more than enough speed for me.
If you've got a Lotus and don't really feel the need to do 100 mph in 6 seconds then I reckon you won't use the sportsbike as much. I'm in the same position, which is why I'm going to get rid of the bike come spring. However I may replace it with another bike, something completely different from the CBR - i.e. a supermoto. These are a right laugh and don't really overlap with the intent of the Lotus.
As for bike trackdays? Not for me, I'm self employed and virtually everyone falls off at a trackday at least once. I've been lucky on the road, and ride very defensively, but you can't always account for other road users.
Completely different feelings - the bike acceleration is mental, and when you're reasonably inexperienced like me and have a good imagination, riding quickly is much harder than driving quickly. It's an art form to get a bunch of corners perfectly.
However the Lotus is all about the corners, and you can't corner as fast on a bike as you can with an Elise / Exige with good tyres. On a bike, unless you've got *serious* experience and some talent, most of your fun will be the sheer straight-line acceleration and the 'freedom of the open road' - it's a cliché but true. Nothing else feels like a bike. With talent and practice comes faster cornering (all that knee down malarkey) but it's not clear that cornering *that* hard on the road is a sensible idea. Apart from the nutters, most bikers adopt a 'point-and-squirt' technique.
Downsides are that you'll hurt yourself, usually badly, if you crash a bike, and it's *very* easy to crash a bike. I won't ride my bike during winter / ice / very wet conditions, risk outweighs reward IMO (sports bikes here, I commuted to the station on a fast (100 mph 2 stroke Gilera) scooter all year round but that wasn't going particularly fast.
Definitely fun to have both, but I find that if I've got a Lotus (or VXT) handy then I'll usually choose that over the bike. Very nice to have a bike for summer weekends though
Mine's an old CBR600 and more than enough speed for me.If you've got a Lotus and don't really feel the need to do 100 mph in 6 seconds then I reckon you won't use the sportsbike as much. I'm in the same position, which is why I'm going to get rid of the bike come spring. However I may replace it with another bike, something completely different from the CBR - i.e. a supermoto. These are a right laugh and don't really overlap with the intent of the Lotus.
As for bike trackdays? Not for me, I'm self employed and virtually everyone falls off at a trackday at least once. I've been lucky on the road, and ride very defensively, but you can't always account for other road users.
The Lotus Elise was my first car after riding bikes only from age 17-39. I filtered to the front of a queue and there was an S1.
Biking days over - I just had to have one. Admittedly, after 20 odd years of bikes and rain, putting the clobber on, earplugs, crash helmets, I was ready.
You will find having owned an Elise (or bike) will make you a well prepared rider or driver of each machine. All the bike issues....people pulling out on roundabouts or all over the place because they cannot judge your speed or be bothered to look properly, the need for a feathered throttle on slippery/greasy roads, being able to spot pot holes or manhole covers on the apex of bends....and generally know that pedestrians WILL walk out in front of you EVERYWHERE (even tunnels).....all these and more will be shared by Elise drivers and bikers.
So the switch is easy.
The problem is getting a bike which fits YOU. Nearly everyone does the opposite, and gets a bike they feels fit their desired image.
As said, bikes can be uncomfortable at times - rain or even the opposite, extreme sun - but adding to that pain in your lower back due to a crap seat, or aching arms due to badly placed (for you) handlebars.....will soon have you quitting.
Of course, if you are planning on using the bike more as a toy - and most, sadly, are designed that way now - then these things are not too much of a concern as they only really show up after an hour or so.
Also, if you thought Lotus prices were expensive, wait until you try spares prices for bikes. Beyond ridiculous.
But hey, 5k will get you a good, young and low mileage bike (there are so many used as toys today).
Never easy to recommend because of the 'fitting' issue, as said. I've tried them all.....off roaders are an absolute hoot but as uncomfortable as HELL, workhorse bikes (often described as 'bland' by the press)are solid and easy to get on with, sportsbikes are incredible machines and will take you to a new level of excitement, but they are quite impractical (and a scrape in the fibreglass on these will cost more than a lorry load of Elise clams to repair
)
It may be better now, but up until I quit only BMW knew how to treat customers. They would allow you 3 hour test drives on all their bikes - and you really do need that amount of time to check for comfort and feel.
The Japanese dealers were arses and wanted all kinds of promises IF they would allow a test ride - most would not.
Biking days over - I just had to have one. Admittedly, after 20 odd years of bikes and rain, putting the clobber on, earplugs, crash helmets, I was ready.
You will find having owned an Elise (or bike) will make you a well prepared rider or driver of each machine. All the bike issues....people pulling out on roundabouts or all over the place because they cannot judge your speed or be bothered to look properly, the need for a feathered throttle on slippery/greasy roads, being able to spot pot holes or manhole covers on the apex of bends....and generally know that pedestrians WILL walk out in front of you EVERYWHERE (even tunnels).....all these and more will be shared by Elise drivers and bikers.
So the switch is easy.
The problem is getting a bike which fits YOU. Nearly everyone does the opposite, and gets a bike they feels fit their desired image.
As said, bikes can be uncomfortable at times - rain or even the opposite, extreme sun - but adding to that pain in your lower back due to a crap seat, or aching arms due to badly placed (for you) handlebars.....will soon have you quitting.
Of course, if you are planning on using the bike more as a toy - and most, sadly, are designed that way now - then these things are not too much of a concern as they only really show up after an hour or so.
Also, if you thought Lotus prices were expensive, wait until you try spares prices for bikes. Beyond ridiculous.
But hey, 5k will get you a good, young and low mileage bike (there are so many used as toys today).
Never easy to recommend because of the 'fitting' issue, as said. I've tried them all.....off roaders are an absolute hoot but as uncomfortable as HELL, workhorse bikes (often described as 'bland' by the press)are solid and easy to get on with, sportsbikes are incredible machines and will take you to a new level of excitement, but they are quite impractical (and a scrape in the fibreglass on these will cost more than a lorry load of Elise clams to repair
)It may be better now, but up until I quit only BMW knew how to treat customers. They would allow you 3 hour test drives on all their bikes - and you really do need that amount of time to check for comfort and feel.
The Japanese dealers were arses and wanted all kinds of promises IF they would allow a test ride - most would not.
What about getting a cheaper sports bike and keeping the Exige !
Shameless plug for my lovely R1 that I cannot afford to keep now I have just bought my first Elise. it's a 2000 'W', the best all round R1 ever according to Bike magazine last year. One owner prior to me, 7,000 miles from new, FSH, a few nice extras, immaculate, scary fast, and worth about £3k. Sorry mods, I'll put it in the classifieds.
Shameless plug for my lovely R1 that I cannot afford to keep now I have just bought my first Elise. it's a 2000 'W', the best all round R1 ever according to Bike magazine last year. One owner prior to me, 7,000 miles from new, FSH, a few nice extras, immaculate, scary fast, and worth about £3k. Sorry mods, I'll put it in the classifieds.
I've just gone the other way from bikes to Lotus. One reason was the safety issue - after being hit by some dopey young woman coming across the double white lines on a bend (ie straight on!)I have some painful and permanent injuries. Add to that I got fed up of the need for protective gear which usually means you're too hot midsummer, too cold midwinter and only really comfortable in between.
I enjoyed bikes. They were a lot of fun but no more so than the Elise on an open road. Their big plus was that heavy traffic didnt matter anything like as much.
Which would I chose - well in the short time I had both sportscar and bikes, it was usually the car because the bike was more of a hassle and less practical.
Dont ignore the safety issue. There's a lot of truth in the saying that with bikes its not a matter of whether you will have an accident but when - and when you do so you have no real protection. Thats why the death rate is 16 times higher than in a car.
If you do buy a bike, take the training - IAM/ ROSPA whatever. Avoid riding in crowds with mates because that almost always leads to a low key race. And avoid sports bikes cos if you have one you will try to use the performance. Almost any big bike will see off a Lotus in a straight line anyway.
I enjoyed bikes. They were a lot of fun but no more so than the Elise on an open road. Their big plus was that heavy traffic didnt matter anything like as much.
Which would I chose - well in the short time I had both sportscar and bikes, it was usually the car because the bike was more of a hassle and less practical.
Dont ignore the safety issue. There's a lot of truth in the saying that with bikes its not a matter of whether you will have an accident but when - and when you do so you have no real protection. Thats why the death rate is 16 times higher than in a car.
If you do buy a bike, take the training - IAM/ ROSPA whatever. Avoid riding in crowds with mates because that almost always leads to a low key race. And avoid sports bikes cos if you have one you will try to use the performance. Almost any big bike will see off a Lotus in a straight line anyway.
)cyberface said:
Apart from the nutters, most bikers adopt a 'point-and-squirt' technique.
Downsides are that you'll hurt yourself, usually badly, if you crash a bike, and it's *very* easy to crash a bike.
As for bike trackdays? Not for me, I'm self employed and virtually everyone falls off at a trackday at least once. I've been lucky on the road, and ride very defensively, but you can't always account for other road users.
OP - there are a lot of very biased statements in the above post. The above posts are like saying everyone with a rear wheel drive car will suffer from high speed oversteer at some point...Downsides are that you'll hurt yourself, usually badly, if you crash a bike, and it's *very* easy to crash a bike.
As for bike trackdays? Not for me, I'm self employed and virtually everyone falls off at a trackday at least once. I've been lucky on the road, and ride very defensively, but you can't always account for other road users.
If you're smooth on a bike and crucially are aware of what the bike is doing, you can be very fast, w/o needing to be a point and squirt merchant (like most UK riders at the Ring btw). It is probably *easier* to crash a bike than a car, but again, you need to be aware of what the bike is doing, what your control inputs will do, and also the road surface. I think it takes more awareness (some would say skill) to go fast on a bike rather than in a car.
In my experience of UK bike trackdays (>50), I would suggest that I've seen more spins whilst on car days, than offs on bike days. There is typically one off per day on a bike day, but I've also seen a lot of armco interfaces whilst on car days.
Whilst racing, I saw a lot more damaged cars than bikes.
You need to decide why you want to ride a bike, rather than what bike you'd like to ride IMHO. Answering the first question will naturally lead you to answer the 2nd. Touring style bikes will not encourage you to ride quickly, (although are probably as quick as the elise), and open up all that is great about riding a bike on the road.
I haven't ridden a bike on the road for about 8 years now as I consider it too dangerous, so sticks to tracks instead where you are generally much more in control of your own destiny ("nutters" accepted...)
I have an Exige S and a Ducati 1098S and whilst I can extract a fair proportion of the Exiges' performance on the road (using a common sense approach to the prevailing situation/conditions etc), with the bike I am finding it increasingly difficult to do so, due to the volume of traffic, poor state of the roads, p155 poor driving standards, sorry mate I didn't see you attitude....etc.
Maybe it is due to me approaching 50, which is removing my sense of invulnerability - but the only real fun I got out of the bike last year, was on an Oulton park track day, way back in May.
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/0/1/1/W/40000001f3f753...
However, as I use the Exige to get to work most days, I get a real blast from driving it virtually every day.
I have determined that if the bike doesn't get much use again this year, it will have to go - a difficult move as I have had a bike constantly since 1992? Perhaps it is me and sportsbikes that may need to part Company?
Maybe it is due to me approaching 50, which is removing my sense of invulnerability - but the only real fun I got out of the bike last year, was on an Oulton park track day, way back in May.
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/0/1/1/W/40000001f3f753...
However, as I use the Exige to get to work most days, I get a real blast from driving it virtually every day.
I have determined that if the bike doesn't get much use again this year, it will have to go - a difficult move as I have had a bike constantly since 1992? Perhaps it is me and sportsbikes that may need to part Company?
I've had both for a long time and intend to continue to do so as long as I am physically able.
Both have qualities that make them enjoyable and the differences are such that to compare the two would take quite a bit of write up. If you have the opportunity to do both than go for it. There are things that each has to offer that are unique to the vehicle and should be considered separately.
Al B.
sports cars since 72
bikes since 76
Both have qualities that make them enjoyable and the differences are such that to compare the two would take quite a bit of write up. If you have the opportunity to do both than go for it. There are things that each has to offer that are unique to the vehicle and should be considered separately.
Al B.
sports cars since 72
bikes since 76
All good food for thought... I must admit I am bit scared of dying but I know how careful I have to be in the Exige in anything less than perfect conditions and I could probably carry this defensive on-road style into biking. I only ever really push the Exige now on track; it has lost a little of its thrill on the road.. I was just thinking you probably don't need to go as fast on a bike to get the same feeling of exhileration as you are so exposed. Perhaps I should get a 2-11! Although slight price difference may prohibit this 
fergus said:
cyberface said:
Apart from the nutters, most bikers adopt a 'point-and-squirt' technique.
Downsides are that you'll hurt yourself, usually badly, if you crash a bike, and it's *very* easy to crash a bike.
As for bike trackdays? Not for me, I'm self employed and virtually everyone falls off at a trackday at least once. I've been lucky on the road, and ride very defensively, but you can't always account for other road users.
OP - there are a lot of very biased statements in the above post. The above posts are like saying everyone with a rear wheel drive car will suffer from high speed oversteer at some point...Downsides are that you'll hurt yourself, usually badly, if you crash a bike, and it's *very* easy to crash a bike.
As for bike trackdays? Not for me, I'm self employed and virtually everyone falls off at a trackday at least once. I've been lucky on the road, and ride very defensively, but you can't always account for other road users.
If you're smooth on a bike and crucially are aware of what the bike is doing, you can be very fast, w/o needing to be a point and squirt merchant (like most UK riders at the Ring btw). It is probably *easier* to crash a bike than a car, but again, you need to be aware of what the bike is doing, what your control inputs will do, and also the road surface. I think it takes more awareness (some would say skill) to go fast on a bike rather than in a car.
In my experience of UK bike trackdays (>50), I would suggest that I've seen more spins whilst on car days, than offs on bike days. There is typically one off per day on a bike day, but I've also seen a lot of armco interfaces whilst on car days.
Whilst racing, I saw a lot more damaged cars than bikes.
You need to decide why you want to ride a bike, rather than what bike you'd like to ride IMHO. Answering the first question will naturally lead you to answer the 2nd. Touring style bikes will not encourage you to ride quickly, (although are probably as quick as the elise), and open up all that is great about riding a bike on the road.
I haven't ridden a bike on the road for about 8 years now as I consider it too dangerous, so sticks to tracks instead where you are generally much more in control of your own destiny ("nutters" accepted...)
I don't think the other statements are 'very biased' - it's a simple fact that you're likely to hurt yourself if you fall off a bike, and it's a lot easier to crash a bike than to crash a car. I stand by that. In fact, your reply reads suspiciously like you actually agree with my points!
As to the final statement re: trackdays, I can only go on the experience of friends who do bike trackdays. Again, if you come off the track in a car, in the vast majority of cases you'll get towed back to the pits, shake the gravel out and have another go. If you stack your bike, the chances are that either the bike will be damaged (gear / rear brake, brake levers, handlebars, etc.) or you'll be shaken up or hurt.
Don't get the idea that I'm anti-bikes or have any prejudice against them. I've been riding for 10 years and currently have a CBR600 tucked away in my back garden waiting for better weather. I love bikes but whereas I enjoy driving quite hard in the Lotus on the road, I'm a damn sight slower on the bike since I'm not as talented a rider as I am a driver, and I also know that the penalties for making a mistake are higher. The odd slide here and there in a car can usually be collected up by a decent driver. Catching slides on a bike requires so much more talent...
That said, there's a hell of a lot of satisfaction to be had by riding at a conservative pace down a road you'd normally hoon the Lotus on, really concentrating to get the bike to flow, to corner perfectly with countersteering, and to feel that you're completely in control of the bike. So many modern bikes are so damn powerful that their owners are scared of them, causing really uncertain and hesitant riding. I've been behind litre sports bikes on twisty roads that gingerly wobble round the corners, only to engage warp drive at the next straight. Bit frustrating in a Lotus.
There's no attack on bikes or bikers here - there are plenty of experienced, talented riders who are completely at one with their machine, but for the occasional sunny-weekend rideout type like myself, I really don't think people like me get enough miles under my two wheels to become a good enough rider to be safe when going fast.
I do agree, however, to the point of nagging my mates, that learning to ride a bike makes you *so* much safer a car driver that it's worth taking tuition and passing the bike test even if you don't plan to own a bike regularly. The factors you *have* to attend to whilst riding (surface is a big one, along with a much heightened awareness of other vehicles) will make you a more observant and safer car driver, IMO.
i owned a s1 lotus and a aprilia rs250,loved both then sold aprilia(mistake!) and got a r6 ,still a good bike ,then that went and i got my dream bike ,a 748 ducati ,loved it to bits ,a work of art,but with 2 kids now fighting over the s1 seat,i decided to sell the s1 and keep the ducati,so a man from france took the elise,and i was all set ,clear some debts with the cash from the sale,keep the ducati,kids cant fight over seats any more,whilst i love the ducati,i really missed the elise,and taking my children out (they missed it too)so the decision was made to sell duc (wife glad) and get a early s2,the kids love it ,and they will grow up soon enough ,so its good to enjoy it with them now ,daughter (5years)wanted to sleep in the s2 in the garage??? i really miss the duc and when the kids get older and do there own thing i will return to having a lotus and a bike.....funds permitting
I have got both, but am a relatively new biker. I have a 600cc supermoto which is like a moto X bike with street tyres and stiffer suspension.
If one had to go, it would be the bike. The acceleration is beyond bonkers, but you have to dress up like a medieval knight and then keep your wits about you for every minute that you are on the road.
If you could remove 80% of other traffic, this would swing things towards the thrill of the bike, but you would need balls of iron to throw a bike around like an Elise.
One thing that may be of interest is that I found the test really, really good fun and a real challenge - Once you have gained your licence, you can always rent a fast bike for the odd day out; an R6 for a day in the summer is a pretty exciting prospect that would be more likely to be treated with a bit more caution than one in the garage!
If one had to go, it would be the bike. The acceleration is beyond bonkers, but you have to dress up like a medieval knight and then keep your wits about you for every minute that you are on the road.
If you could remove 80% of other traffic, this would swing things towards the thrill of the bike, but you would need balls of iron to throw a bike around like an Elise.
One thing that may be of interest is that I found the test really, really good fun and a real challenge - Once you have gained your licence, you can always rent a fast bike for the odd day out; an R6 for a day in the summer is a pretty exciting prospect that would be more likely to be treated with a bit more caution than one in the garage!
I have both (Exige S2 and BMW K1200S - 180MPH daft sports tourer thing for the uninitiated).
Motorcycles are a very good way to die or be disabled (worse than dying in my opinion) because, as you will find out if you get one, car/van/lorry drivers are totally incapable of looking where they are going.
I still haven't worked out how I have managed to survive 20 years/over a quarter of a million miles of commuting with just a dozen or so broken bones and increasingly bad arthritis.
However I am still doing it but, certainly during the winter, I would take the Exige (my 'practical' vehicle) everytime. It's only the doubling of my journey time (1 hour+ to 2 hours+) that stops me getting rid of the bike.
They are fine as a toy but the roads are just too congested with too many idiots to enjoy most of the time.
But go out early one sunny warm weekend morning, point your sports bike at your favourite corner, get it just right and you will experience a sensation beyond anything a car driver will ever experience on the road, on a track day or in a race (I've also been racing saloon cars for about 20 years with 5 championship wins to me credit, so yes I do know what I am talking about).
However it isn't really sustainable.
Get the best training you can, listen and follow EVERYTHING those guys tell you (they generally aren't like car instructors, they have actually lived it), buy one, run it for a couple of summers and then sell it and say "I've done it".
Just my opinion.
Motorcycles are a very good way to die or be disabled (worse than dying in my opinion) because, as you will find out if you get one, car/van/lorry drivers are totally incapable of looking where they are going.
I still haven't worked out how I have managed to survive 20 years/over a quarter of a million miles of commuting with just a dozen or so broken bones and increasingly bad arthritis.
However I am still doing it but, certainly during the winter, I would take the Exige (my 'practical' vehicle) everytime. It's only the doubling of my journey time (1 hour+ to 2 hours+) that stops me getting rid of the bike.
They are fine as a toy but the roads are just too congested with too many idiots to enjoy most of the time.
But go out early one sunny warm weekend morning, point your sports bike at your favourite corner, get it just right and you will experience a sensation beyond anything a car driver will ever experience on the road, on a track day or in a race (I've also been racing saloon cars for about 20 years with 5 championship wins to me credit, so yes I do know what I am talking about).
However it isn't really sustainable.
Get the best training you can, listen and follow EVERYTHING those guys tell you (they generally aren't like car instructors, they have actually lived it), buy one, run it for a couple of summers and then sell it and say "I've done it".
Just my opinion.
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