S1 111S or Standard ???
Discussion
Which one holds its value best and is there much difference in ownership running costs (insurance, engine issues etc).
I've driven both and the 111S is definately the better car on a track but its quite a bit more expensive to buy of course. Ultimately the performance isnt that critical its a road car toy after all, but the future value strength and desireability is very important. Can anyone put me out of my deliberation and convince me either way?
I guess what I'm asking is given the choice when buying would you choose a Standard car and save few grand or pay a premium for a 111S.
I've driven both and the 111S is definately the better car on a track but its quite a bit more expensive to buy of course. Ultimately the performance isnt that critical its a road car toy after all, but the future value strength and desireability is very important. Can anyone put me out of my deliberation and convince me either way?
I guess what I'm asking is given the choice when buying would you choose a Standard car and save few grand or pay a premium for a 111S.
^^^ As above.
If you can afford the 111S, I'd go for one in preference to the basic car.
The only thing I'd add is that, as much as I loved my Sport 160, I'd have to say that the 111S is better (and probably faster) as a road car. The Sport 160 will undoubtedly be the most collectable Elise in years to come, but at the moment it's a touch over-priced for what you get in comparison to the 111S (which is mainly an ill-mannered engine and bloody uncomfortable seats
).
If you can afford the 111S, I'd go for one in preference to the basic car.
The only thing I'd add is that, as much as I loved my Sport 160, I'd have to say that the 111S is better (and probably faster) as a road car. The Sport 160 will undoubtedly be the most collectable Elise in years to come, but at the moment it's a touch over-priced for what you get in comparison to the 111S (which is mainly an ill-mannered engine and bloody uncomfortable seats
).What is the price difference between a 111s and a normal S1 now? When I was looking I would say it was about £1000-£2000. I'd say that's the a difference worth paying for the seats, gearbox and extra go however I'd also be keeping my eye out for a standard car with the right mods as that may potentially offer better value again. No particular mechanical issues associated with either derivative by the way,
There isn't a few grand difference between a standard S1 and a 111S. Having just gone through this myself, I would say there is £1,000 at the most (maybe less) difference between a base S1 and a 111S of the same year, condition, mileage etc. If you particularly want a 111S you should hold out for one - Not as many for sale as base cars, but they are out there. (I bought a base car by the way !)
GR4 said:
There isn't a few grand difference between a standard S1 and a 111S. Having just gone through this myself, I would say there is £1,000 at the most (maybe less) difference between a base S1 and a 111S of the same year, condition, mileage etc. If you particularly want a 111S you should hold out for one - Not as many for sale as base cars, but they are out there. (I bought a base car by the way !)
I think your right about a £1K difference. What made buy the base car?
There are plenty of base S1s with the right mods out there for peanuts, but if you can stretch to it then the 111S would probably be the best 'out of the box' road car.
Out of interest, why are you looking at an Elise as a road car? I would imagine that the last thing someone in your line of work would want to do is drive something naily at the weekends too?
Out of interest, why are you looking at an Elise as a road car? I would imagine that the last thing someone in your line of work would want to do is drive something naily at the weekends too?
To answer Simon, I started out quite focused on which specific edition I wanted, but then got a fair bit of advice along the way telling me to concentrate on finding a good car first, specific model second. I found what I think is a really well looked after base car with all the bits that I wanted done, so I went for it. I'm pretty comfortable it was the right decision for me. I guess not all our wish lists are the same, and they are all pretty good really!
GR4 said:
To answer Simon, I started out quite focused on which specific edition I wanted, but then got a fair bit of advice along the way telling me to concentrate on finding a good car first, specific model second.
That's good advice!And try enough cars to make sure you're familiar with how they should feel.
My first (boggo 118bhp) S1 was a lovely example that drove very well in all respects but in particular had a better gearchange than I've ever encountered on any other K-series Elise. I wish I hadn't sold it (particularly since I swapped it for a TVR Griffith that was one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made), and I'd certainly rather have had that car than a less perfect example of a more desirable model.
Simon Mason said:
Which one holds its value best and is there much difference in ownership running costs (insurance, engine issues etc).
I've driven both and the 111S is definately the better car on a track but its quite a bit more expensive to buy of course. Ultimately the performance isnt that critical its a road car toy after all, but the future value strength and desireability is very important. Can anyone put me out of my deliberation and convince me either way?
I guess what I'm asking is given the choice when buying would you choose a Standard car and save few grand or pay a premium for a 111S.
I agree with all the above advice and I tried both a standard car and a 111s before I finally bought s 111s which i've now owned for 4 years of trouble free motoring. It's horses for courses but for road use I found the 111s to be the best all rounder and still brings a smile to my face.I've driven both and the 111S is definately the better car on a track but its quite a bit more expensive to buy of course. Ultimately the performance isnt that critical its a road car toy after all, but the future value strength and desireability is very important. Can anyone put me out of my deliberation and convince me either way?
I guess what I'm asking is given the choice when buying would you choose a Standard car and save few grand or pay a premium for a 111S.
To be honest you need to try a few and then make your own mind up.
Its a no brainer to me a that I want a 111S but ultimately it is a second car for me and she who must be obeyed. She hardly ever needs a car so I want get one that will hold its money and we (me 
) can have some fun with at weekends. I do pretty hefty mileage in my normal car so want something fun for trips to some events and weekend breaks. It doesnt need to be genuinely practical.
Yes it will go on a track but thats not what I'm buying it for if it was I'd go standard and upgrade no question. Ultimately its allot of money out my savings to put into a second car so I want to minimise my risk by buying desirable and thereby maintain some integrity in its value. Its just was it going be worth that extra grand and think listening to the answers it probably is and I'm looking for excuses to spend less! The advise about tidiest car first, model second is very good and I will follow that.
I had considered S2000's, the misses loves them and its a much better more practical second car plus the value of them has just dropped BUT I can't help but feel their value will always keep dropping until about 4 or 5 K so that means I could loose 50% in a couple of years and its not as if I have to have one. At least a tidy Elise has a serious following to keep the value.
Anyway thanks for your help guys.
) can have some fun with at weekends. I do pretty hefty mileage in my normal car so want something fun for trips to some events and weekend breaks. It doesnt need to be genuinely practical. Yes it will go on a track but thats not what I'm buying it for if it was I'd go standard and upgrade no question. Ultimately its allot of money out my savings to put into a second car so I want to minimise my risk by buying desirable and thereby maintain some integrity in its value. Its just was it going be worth that extra grand and think listening to the answers it probably is and I'm looking for excuses to spend less! The advise about tidiest car first, model second is very good and I will follow that.
I had considered S2000's, the misses loves them and its a much better more practical second car plus the value of them has just dropped BUT I can't help but feel their value will always keep dropping until about 4 or 5 K so that means I could loose 50% in a couple of years and its not as if I have to have one. At least a tidy Elise has a serious following to keep the value.
Anyway thanks for your help guys.
have a look at my profile ;-)
111s is perfect for the UK road. The close box keeps it on the boil all the time. You really dont need much more power - you cane the feck out of it and its just right without getting in to silly speeds - which you would with a 200bhp+ elise.
160's, Exiges, S2000's are not as effective for road driving IMHO as you need to keep them revved up.
Bit pricier, but more exclusive, easier to sell on and a lot more kit for your £ in the second hand market. That extra kit would cost you £8k more if buying new.
111s is perfect for the UK road. The close box keeps it on the boil all the time. You really dont need much more power - you cane the feck out of it and its just right without getting in to silly speeds - which you would with a 200bhp+ elise.
160's, Exiges, S2000's are not as effective for road driving IMHO as you need to keep them revved up.
Bit pricier, but more exclusive, easier to sell on and a lot more kit for your £ in the second hand market. That extra kit would cost you £8k more if buying new.
Simon Mason said:
Its a no brainer to me a that I want a 111S but ultimately it is a second car for me and she who must be obeyed. She hardly ever needs a car so I want get one that will hold its money and we (me ) can have some fun with at weekends. I do pretty hefty mileage in my normal car so want something fun for trips to some events and weekend breaks. It doesnt need to be genuinely practical.
Yes it will go on a track but thats not what I'm buying it for if it was I'd go standard and upgrade no question. Ultimately its allot of money out my savings to put into a second car so I want to minimise my risk by buying desirable and thereby maintain some integrity in its value. Its just was it going be worth that extra grand and think listening to the answers it probably is and I'm looking for excuses to spend less! The advise about tidiest car first, model second is very good and I will follow that.
I had considered S2000's, the misses loves them and its a much better more practical second car plus the value of them has just dropped BUT I can't help but feel their value will always keep dropping until about 4 or 5 K so that means I could loose 50% in a couple of years and its not as if I have to have one. At least a tidy Elise has a serious following to keep the value.
Anyway thanks for your help guys.
Simon, ) can have some fun with at weekends. I do pretty hefty mileage in my normal car so want something fun for trips to some events and weekend breaks. It doesnt need to be genuinely practical. Yes it will go on a track but thats not what I'm buying it for if it was I'd go standard and upgrade no question. Ultimately its allot of money out my savings to put into a second car so I want to minimise my risk by buying desirable and thereby maintain some integrity in its value. Its just was it going be worth that extra grand and think listening to the answers it probably is and I'm looking for excuses to spend less! The advise about tidiest car first, model second is very good and I will follow that.
I had considered S2000's, the misses loves them and its a much better more practical second car plus the value of them has just dropped BUT I can't help but feel their value will always keep dropping until about 4 or 5 K so that means I could loose 50% in a couple of years and its not as if I have to have one. At least a tidy Elise has a serious following to keep the value.
Anyway thanks for your help guys.
A bit cheeky this (sorry mods), but i've been thinking of selling mine but haven't got around to doing much about it yet. Noting that you are Bristol way and i'm West Wilts if you wanted to have a look around a 111s drop me an email.
Dave
I had a similar dilemma when I bought my Elise, I knew I wanted an Elise but also wanted to make sure I bought a car that would not loose too much money. Realistically I will end up selling to get a more sensible car in a few years and don’t want to take too much of a hit.
My final decision was to spend the minimal possible to buy a hpi clear early s1 (about £7k at time maybe nearer £6k now) as you will still get as much enjoyment and as you have paid less you will have less money tied up in it to loose.
My final decision was to spend the minimal possible to buy a hpi clear early s1 (about £7k at time maybe nearer £6k now) as you will still get as much enjoyment and as you have paid less you will have less money tied up in it to loose.
Is that Simon the track driving instructor? Long time no see if so!
I had a S1 111S, and later a 160; and although I loved the 160 as it felt a bit more special, I have to say for general driving I preferred the 111S. Flater torque curve and just does what it's supposed to - the 160 needs a bit of fettling (drivability kit) &/or patience for everyday use. The 111S is easier to drive on track too (although getting it right in the 160 made you feel better). 111S has the short ratio box which some find annoying on the motorway, but I personally never had an issue with that.
The 160 and 111S have always kept a premium over the standard cars - and for good reason (and I think 1K is a little pessimistic, all other factors being equal). Although as standard cars get modified the difference becomes less and the differential is degraded. But there will always be a limited supply of VVC'd 111Ss and stock 160s, so if you're looking at future value - then I'd say probably get a 160 and keep it stock. There are less and less unmodified cars around & some people still seem to think 160s are the dogs danglies S1 car, whilst the 111S tends to get forgotten & has always be under-rated IMHO. Although I have to say I think I'd get a 111S again in your shoes ;o)
Hazel
I had a S1 111S, and later a 160; and although I loved the 160 as it felt a bit more special, I have to say for general driving I preferred the 111S. Flater torque curve and just does what it's supposed to - the 160 needs a bit of fettling (drivability kit) &/or patience for everyday use. The 111S is easier to drive on track too (although getting it right in the 160 made you feel better). 111S has the short ratio box which some find annoying on the motorway, but I personally never had an issue with that.
The 160 and 111S have always kept a premium over the standard cars - and for good reason (and I think 1K is a little pessimistic, all other factors being equal). Although as standard cars get modified the difference becomes less and the differential is degraded. But there will always be a limited supply of VVC'd 111Ss and stock 160s, so if you're looking at future value - then I'd say probably get a 160 and keep it stock. There are less and less unmodified cars around & some people still seem to think 160s are the dogs danglies S1 car, whilst the 111S tends to get forgotten & has always be under-rated IMHO. Although I have to say I think I'd get a 111S again in your shoes ;o)
Hazel
mg_dot said:
The 160 and 111S have always kept a premium over the standard cars - and for good reason (and I think 1K is a little pessimistic, all other factors being equal). Although as standard cars get modified the difference becomes less and the differential is degraded. But there will always be a limited supply of VVC'd 111Ss and stock 160s, so if you're looking at future value - then I'd say probably get a 160 and keep it stock. There are less and less unmodified cars around & some people still seem to think 160s are the dogs danglies S1 car, whilst the 111S tends to get forgotten & has always be under-rated IMHO. Although I have to say I think I'd get a 111S again in your shoes ;o)
Hazel
Just wondering what defines a "stock" 160 these days. For instance I'd think of mine being stock despite it having uprated airfilter, brakes and possibly suspension shortly.Hazel
The suspension as a case in point, it's still on original Koni's but I can't see that commanding any premium over one such as my mate's which has upgraded suspension as (1) you can't get the original koni's now and (2) every says red koni's are pants. On point 1 I'm wondering if I'd need to insure it as a modified car as all I could replace it with is something better.
Hi moospeed
Yes i have got a Sport 160, now would i say it was stock or modified.......i think you would be hard pushed to find an elise that is not modified in some way, even if it is just the zorst that has been done or, brakes. I think mine has ben modified in the correct way and is better for it, i also would suggest it is pretty standard too. It has had the driverbility kit added, braided hoses, 2bular, Nitrons, Pagids etc. These are all things that yes are modifiying a car but not to the extent that it is different IMHO.
Back to the OP, yes the 111s is worth the premium over the standard one, the standard one just did not make me smile, the 111s did. The CR box added with a short shift is great, the extra power, better seats, slight styling upgrade all worth it IMO. I then drove the 160 and had a bin grin, i liked the fact that it just kept pulling all the way round to 7,000rpm. Anyone that has owned a 160 will love the tick over, it is a really quirk of the car that makes it brilliant.
Mine is not an everyday car, would i have bought the 111s over the 160 if it was an everyday car...........i dont know, my head says yes, my heart says no.
D
Yes i have got a Sport 160, now would i say it was stock or modified.......i think you would be hard pushed to find an elise that is not modified in some way, even if it is just the zorst that has been done or, brakes. I think mine has ben modified in the correct way and is better for it, i also would suggest it is pretty standard too. It has had the driverbility kit added, braided hoses, 2bular, Nitrons, Pagids etc. These are all things that yes are modifiying a car but not to the extent that it is different IMHO.
Back to the OP, yes the 111s is worth the premium over the standard one, the standard one just did not make me smile, the 111s did. The CR box added with a short shift is great, the extra power, better seats, slight styling upgrade all worth it IMO. I then drove the 160 and had a bin grin, i liked the fact that it just kept pulling all the way round to 7,000rpm. Anyone that has owned a 160 will love the tick over, it is a really quirk of the car that makes it brilliant.
Mine is not an everyday car, would i have bought the 111s over the 160 if it was an everyday car...........i dont know, my head says yes, my heart says no.
D
Personally I'd not count most suspension changes as a modification (although strictly speaking it is, and the insurance would certainly want to hear about it to decide for themselves - the sharks!). My 160 had LSS on it originally & you can't even get that any longer IIRC. By modification I'm talking bigger changes - engine conversion/upgrade for example; although if a 160 has a long list of "upgrades" then I'd say thats no longer stock either. But I know nothing
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