s2 exige tyre help
Discussion
Ok guys...sure its beencovered a few times and i've just read through cyberfaces thread which is very helpful but thought i'd put this one out here...
just over 2 months ownerships and 7500miles on standard tyres and the rears are now officially bold-which at this time of year isn't the best as its my daily driver!! Am enjoying the slides through slow round abouts but my ability isn't there to sort myself out if it goes wrong!!!
Basically i'd like some recommendations for tyres for a 58plate exige 240 for these lovely winter conditions!
Also just moved up to newcastle so local dealers that are recommended would be appreciated...maybe toenheel has some suggestions here??!!
Thanks guys, all the best
just over 2 months ownerships and 7500miles on standard tyres and the rears are now officially bold-which at this time of year isn't the best as its my daily driver!! Am enjoying the slides through slow round abouts but my ability isn't there to sort myself out if it goes wrong!!!
Basically i'd like some recommendations for tyres for a 58plate exige 240 for these lovely winter conditions!
Also just moved up to newcastle so local dealers that are recommended would be appreciated...maybe toenheel has some suggestions here??!!
Thanks guys, all the best
Neither the 888 nor A048R are going to work properly in these conditions. They are fine in the wet (other than standing water, which is a LOT more dangerous than people make out) but it's actually temperature that catches them out. The compound in the trackday tyres (and some high-performance road tyres) is really a summer compound i.e. > 7˚C. Once the tyre and road temperature drops below 7˚C then the compound simply stops performing anywhere near normality.
In short, the car will slide before the rubber bites into the tarmac and breakaway is *very* sudden and, frankly, a liability on the road even if you are handy behind the wheel.
I was finding the engine was capable of spinning the rears up in straight line acceleration in the dry once the second cam came in, granted I have a supercharged Exige but these are fresh A048Rs, and the car has the weight distribution of a 911 with the engine on the rear wheels. The engine has bugger all torque and quite frankly *shouldn't* lose traction in a straight line in second.
With the winter tyres it's all grip all the way (even in first) so given that the A048Rs have naturally more grip it's a compound temperature issue.
I ran 888s on my last car, the VX220 turbo (which had a lot more torque than the Exige) - didn't get winter tyres for this one and I found the compound worked better at lower temperatures than the Yokohamas. However it was still dicey in winter and in snowy / slushy conditions it was sideways everywhere.
Personally, I know it's fun to have a bit of a challenge but when the tyres simply don't work properly because of low temperatures, then your car *will* be twitchy and you'll have to modify driving style to suit... and the severity of the changes may catch other road users out, who may be using 'all season' tyres. I love the A048R and 888 tyres but they're really not suitable nor safe during winter. They're particularly tricky when you need to stop in a hurry in the cold.
I know the British tend to ignore the fact that cars need suitable boots for the weather, unlike everywhere else in Europe, but the light weight of the Lotuses exacerbates the lack of grip when the trackday tyres don't perform. Definitely worth losing some of the last 10% of cornering ability (in the dry and warm) so that you can drive safely and enjoy the car through winter.
Proper winter tyres aren't mandatory of course - I chose them because I've used them before and one thing they are superb at is clearing water and never aquaplaning, and whilst I can cope with reduced grip levels by adjusting driving style and catching slides, the most dangerous times I've ever had in Elise / VXT / Exige cars have been aquaplane events that are bloody hard to avoid without causing an accident. After all if you are in heavy traffic on a motorway and a stretch of standing water appears, standing the car on its nose or swerving violently into another lane is likely to result in someone else stacking into you.
I really don't see the point in swapping trackday cut-slick type tyres for a summer-compound high-performance tyre with just more tread though. The 48Rs and 888s are fine in the damp, they're just tricky in standing water. The only reason to have another tyre is to cope with lower temperatures and heavier rain - where the 'high-performance' summer tyres are just as compromised. A dedicated 'rain' tyre or winter rubber is the best bet IMO. Who are the tyre manufacturers who bang on about their rain performance? I seem to recall a wild-looking tyre that had a single enormous circumferential groove and was almost a twin-tyre shape... that'd probably work but I don't think they're made any more.
In short, the car will slide before the rubber bites into the tarmac and breakaway is *very* sudden and, frankly, a liability on the road even if you are handy behind the wheel.
I was finding the engine was capable of spinning the rears up in straight line acceleration in the dry once the second cam came in, granted I have a supercharged Exige but these are fresh A048Rs, and the car has the weight distribution of a 911 with the engine on the rear wheels. The engine has bugger all torque and quite frankly *shouldn't* lose traction in a straight line in second.
With the winter tyres it's all grip all the way (even in first) so given that the A048Rs have naturally more grip it's a compound temperature issue.
I ran 888s on my last car, the VX220 turbo (which had a lot more torque than the Exige) - didn't get winter tyres for this one and I found the compound worked better at lower temperatures than the Yokohamas. However it was still dicey in winter and in snowy / slushy conditions it was sideways everywhere.
Personally, I know it's fun to have a bit of a challenge but when the tyres simply don't work properly because of low temperatures, then your car *will* be twitchy and you'll have to modify driving style to suit... and the severity of the changes may catch other road users out, who may be using 'all season' tyres. I love the A048R and 888 tyres but they're really not suitable nor safe during winter. They're particularly tricky when you need to stop in a hurry in the cold.
I know the British tend to ignore the fact that cars need suitable boots for the weather, unlike everywhere else in Europe, but the light weight of the Lotuses exacerbates the lack of grip when the trackday tyres don't perform. Definitely worth losing some of the last 10% of cornering ability (in the dry and warm) so that you can drive safely and enjoy the car through winter.
Proper winter tyres aren't mandatory of course - I chose them because I've used them before and one thing they are superb at is clearing water and never aquaplaning, and whilst I can cope with reduced grip levels by adjusting driving style and catching slides, the most dangerous times I've ever had in Elise / VXT / Exige cars have been aquaplane events that are bloody hard to avoid without causing an accident. After all if you are in heavy traffic on a motorway and a stretch of standing water appears, standing the car on its nose or swerving violently into another lane is likely to result in someone else stacking into you.
I really don't see the point in swapping trackday cut-slick type tyres for a summer-compound high-performance tyre with just more tread though. The 48Rs and 888s are fine in the damp, they're just tricky in standing water. The only reason to have another tyre is to cope with lower temperatures and heavier rain - where the 'high-performance' summer tyres are just as compromised. A dedicated 'rain' tyre or winter rubber is the best bet IMO. Who are the tyre manufacturers who bang on about their rain performance? I seem to recall a wild-looking tyre that had a single enormous circumferential groove and was almost a twin-tyre shape... that'd probably work but I don't think they're made any more.
Thanks cyberface, i agree completely-at times it is great fun snaking up a straight road but when i arrive at my destination and put the sensible cap back on i realise that in these conditions its probably not so smart!
I'm more than happy to put some winter tyres on for a couple of months before changing to something more fun for the summer. Think i'll re-read your current post and go down that road as for daily use i feel its safer for me and those around me ;-)
Thanks for the help
I'm more than happy to put some winter tyres on for a couple of months before changing to something more fun for the summer. Think i'll re-read your current post and go down that road as for daily use i feel its safer for me and those around me ;-)
Thanks for the help
Personally I believe you can get over scientific. On road you're not going to get anywhere near the limits of the car in this kind of weather unless you're a professional racing driver, test driver, or complete loon.
Assuming you're none of the above, and if you are using the car for general driving on road, just stick with something that people know works and works well.
If money's no object, then the Yoko AO39s are well proven. Designed as racing wets (IIRC), they have a softer compound and are generally thought to be excellent road tyres for all weathers. On track they'll go to mush fairly quickly as you get heat in them, so stick with the cut slicks for trackwork if outright grip's what you want.
For a budget, then Toyo T1R's are fine IMO. You loose a small amount of feel at dead ahead, but nothing like as much as some people (mostly those who've never had them) would have you believe. I believe Ben @ Castle Lotus also recommended some Goodyears which he'd had fitted to a Europa with wider than standard wheels (same as the Exige rims). Have a search and you'll find something.
Or give cyberface's suggestions a try.
Assuming you're none of the above, and if you are using the car for general driving on road, just stick with something that people know works and works well.
If money's no object, then the Yoko AO39s are well proven. Designed as racing wets (IIRC), they have a softer compound and are generally thought to be excellent road tyres for all weathers. On track they'll go to mush fairly quickly as you get heat in them, so stick with the cut slicks for trackwork if outright grip's what you want.
For a budget, then Toyo T1R's are fine IMO. You loose a small amount of feel at dead ahead, but nothing like as much as some people (mostly those who've never had them) would have you believe. I believe Ben @ Castle Lotus also recommended some Goodyears which he'd had fitted to a Europa with wider than standard wheels (same as the Exige rims). Have a search and you'll find something.
Or give cyberface's suggestions a try.
Thanks S Works, i bought the car from Ben and found his assistance invaluable! Will give him a call in the week as well to see what his opinion is!
I'm never running the car near its limits and know for a fact i am incapable of this which is why i am planning some driver training this year before some trackdays!
Just want some sensible rubber for this time of year thats other owners would like to recommend
Thanks again
I'm never running the car near its limits and know for a fact i am incapable of this which is why i am planning some driver training this year before some trackdays!
Just want some sensible rubber for this time of year thats other owners would like to recommend
Thanks again
Tim's right. I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum - winter tyres aren't 'mandatory' by any means. My motivation for buying winter tyres originated when my cousin came with me to Verbier skiing one year, and we decided to make it a road trip rather than fly. Since Clarkson had posted a time in a Ferrari to the same village (racing public transport in some Top Gear episode) we decided to try to beat the time. He had a 4wd Jaguar but I had a RWD 993 Porker. With a supercharger. Not ideal alpine transport so while Adam took some snow chains, I fitted a full set of winter tyres. Unfortunately on the way down we were caught in severe weather, and then led completely astray by Adam's wife who was operating the GPS satnav and took us over the mountains rather than the direct route... and thank feck I had the winter tyres. It was still sketchy, dangerous and the 4wd Jag was spinning all 4 wheels trying to get up the hill. The Porker required constant correction and it was sphincter-tightening stuff but we got there safely. I blew Clarkson's time away on the way back (7h 15m from Verbier to Calais) whereas my cousin turned up hours later having been stopped by the gendarme I spotted at 150 mph two hills away...
Anyway as a result I got to drive the Porker for two winters on winter tyres. And with fat 285 rears, the porker is also susceptible to aquaplaning. With the Snowsports the car just cut through standing water like it wasn't there, and I've been espousing the benefits of winter tyres ever since.
Winters have much deeper tread than T1-Rs or other road tyres. Aquaplaning in the Lotus leaves you as a passenger, which is a LOT scarier IMO than losing the front or back ends - I can at least attempt (and usually succeed) to correct understeer or oversteer. When all 4 wheels are skating on water there's nothing I can do but hold tight and hope the car doesn't go off the road. So avoiding aquaplaning is a bigger deal to me than ultimate grip in winter - as Tim says, you won't be pushing the limits on road in February unless you're a nutball. UK winters tend to involve heavy rain and deep puddles rather than ice and snow, though current conditions are an exception!!!
However if you're not quite so aquaplane-sensitive, then any non-trackday tyre will perform better in winter than 888s or A048Rs.
The problem with winter tyres is that it's almost impossible to find a Lotus-recommended winter tyre that is available in both the 16" front and the 17" rear, so you have to mix and match in an educated fashion. Normal tyres like the Toyo T1-R don't have that problem.
Anyway the snow is deep now, and tomorrow I'll be doing some extreme-conditions testing, if the tyres perform well it'd be a laugh to turn up in Verbier in a few weeks time (that's if I could get all our ski kit in the Lotus...) - I've seen a couple of brave lads in 993s (me and someone with a 4wd model) up there, and all the flashiest 4x4s from RS2s and Litcho Scoobs to RRs, Hummers and Cayenne turbos, but I've never seen anyone up there in a Lotus
Some loon turned up on a dry sunny day with an old Ferrari though, quality 
Anyway as a result I got to drive the Porker for two winters on winter tyres. And with fat 285 rears, the porker is also susceptible to aquaplaning. With the Snowsports the car just cut through standing water like it wasn't there, and I've been espousing the benefits of winter tyres ever since.
Winters have much deeper tread than T1-Rs or other road tyres. Aquaplaning in the Lotus leaves you as a passenger, which is a LOT scarier IMO than losing the front or back ends - I can at least attempt (and usually succeed) to correct understeer or oversteer. When all 4 wheels are skating on water there's nothing I can do but hold tight and hope the car doesn't go off the road. So avoiding aquaplaning is a bigger deal to me than ultimate grip in winter - as Tim says, you won't be pushing the limits on road in February unless you're a nutball. UK winters tend to involve heavy rain and deep puddles rather than ice and snow, though current conditions are an exception!!!
However if you're not quite so aquaplane-sensitive, then any non-trackday tyre will perform better in winter than 888s or A048Rs.
The problem with winter tyres is that it's almost impossible to find a Lotus-recommended winter tyre that is available in both the 16" front and the 17" rear, so you have to mix and match in an educated fashion. Normal tyres like the Toyo T1-R don't have that problem.
Anyway the snow is deep now, and tomorrow I'll be doing some extreme-conditions testing, if the tyres perform well it'd be a laugh to turn up in Verbier in a few weeks time (that's if I could get all our ski kit in the Lotus...) - I've seen a couple of brave lads in 993s (me and someone with a 4wd model) up there, and all the flashiest 4x4s from RS2s and Litcho Scoobs to RRs, Hummers and Cayenne turbos, but I've never seen anyone up there in a Lotus
Some loon turned up on a dry sunny day with an old Ferrari though, quality 
TOENHEEL said:
Hi mate, try C and S tyres in middlesbrough, i got my R888's fitted there and they were mega cheap so maybe for other tyres also.
Thanks mate, once i make a choice on what tyres to go for i'll get in contact with them! Had to sacrifice the car for the metro today so will need to get some rubber asap!Cyberface-hope your enjoying those winter tyres!!!
calvert86 said:
TOENHEEL said:
Hi mate, try C and S tyres in middlesbrough, i got my R888's fitted there and they were mega cheap so maybe for other tyres also.
Thanks mate, once i make a choice on what tyres to go for i'll get in contact with them! Had to sacrifice the car for the metro today so will need to get some rubber asap!Cyberface-hope your enjoying those winter tyres!!!
Zebra
calvert86 said:
TOENHEEL said:
Hi mate, try C and S tyres in middlesbrough, i got my R888's fitted there and they were mega cheap so maybe for other tyres also.
Thanks mate, once i make a choice on what tyres to go for i'll get in contact with them! Had to sacrifice the car for the metro today so will need to get some rubber asap!Cyberface-hope your enjoying those winter tyres!!!
zebra said:
calvert86 said:
Good to see not all the cars are hibernated for the winter!!
Glad to see you joined up _ we're next getting together on the 21st Feb here's hoping for dry weather.Zebra
Whys everything happen at once!!??
As for tyre choice i've spoken to Ben at castle and decided i'm just going to stick with the 48s-some sensible driving in the wet and i should be fine fingers crossed!
Thanks for everyones inputs on choices out there!
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