Elise - track car: which engine and some other questions

[tertius]

So, I'm looking into potential track cars and I've come back to an Elise (prob S1) as an option.

I currently track a somewhat modified 993 with c. 300 bhp in about 1300 kgs: I'm looking for something that will be at least as fast and preferably materially faster. I accept an Elise may lose out on the longer straights but its laptimes have to be faster?

Firstly engines, there's an S1 in the classifieds with a VHPD engine. I have done a search and understand that it may be a little fragile/needing careful TLC but for a pure track car and the willingness to spend to maintain it, is there any reasonable reason why not?

Secondly, on engines, there seem to be an extraordinary number of standard engine variants plus engine conversions out there. Any straightforward tips for which ones to look out for and which to avoid. Having done a little looking I feel as though I'm looking for an S1 producing somewhere near to 200 bhp. I suspect this narrows my choices somewhat.

Third, harnesses/suitable seats: some cars have them but many do not, whats a ballpark figure for fitting suitable seats/harnesses/harness bar/anything else I need?

Fourth, good service garages: I live in SW London, are there any reliable Lotus garages in the area? A search has turned up one in Hammersmith called Morland Jones - any comments/experience (via PM if you prefer).

Thanks in advance.

[eowen]

It is a bit quiet here - so I would recommend posting on seloc.org.

I think anything other than an Audi/Honda engined Elise, or Exige in S1 form will feel a bit underpowered compared to the porka - but as you say will more than make up for it on the bends.

Key question - what is the budget?

[jke11y]

I have done a few trackdays in a VHPD engined S1 Exige, and it was a lot of fun. On a shorter twistier track it easily kept up with most cars, apart from 2-11/atoms/honda cars. I also have done a few days in my honda powered car and it is a lot faster in a straight line, but it took a bit of getting used to going into corners that much quicker.

I guess it comes down to budget - if the VHPD elise is in-budget, it would make a good starter base, as I would imagine it will have a lot of other track bits on it. Then, when the VHPD breaks, go down the conversion route. My VHPD threw its alternator belt on track which got caught in the cambelt whereas I have had no major problems with the honda, but a couple of CVboots splitting.

My bro has a VHPD S1 Exige and on dual carriageway dragraces in 3rd/4th the Honda car just walks away. We were talking about it yesterday and are going to try and do some comparison videos as unless you have driven both you wouldnt believe the difference - its far more than the on-paper 40-odd bhp would suggest.

[tertius]

OK, on the budget question say 10-15k. I'd prefer to spend 10 obviously.

The VHPD-engined car is asking 12k, with lots of nice looking track mods, including two sets of wheels.

There is also a Honda-engined car asking 14k, but without all the nice mods, but does have some (like Bilstein suspension).

The ad for the Honda engined car says 197 bhp, which I'm assuming is about the same as the VHPD?

The VHPD car looks like its pretty much get in and go as a track car. The Honda car would need harnesses at least (does that mean new seats?).

In short is the Honda-engined car a better bet, bearing in mind there is some extra spend required?

Any thoughts on price?

Thanks for the replies so far.

[Stephanie Plum]

Can you post some links to the ads you are looking at? Would expect better than Bilsteins on the Honda'd car, and the bhp sounds way too low.

Tbh for your budget the VHPD might be all you'll get that's proper. A well done Honda conversion in n/a form should push out 245bhp really, and the SC ones 300bhp +, with lots of extra goodies in terms of brakes and suspension, and will cost more than your budget.

Reiterate as said above you should look at seloc - there is a conversion forum on there at the top of the tech discussion thread.

[tertius]

Sorry I didn't post the links to the ads as I'm currently using a kiosk machine in a kids play area and the browser seems to be somewhat crippled.

Anyway think I've managed it.

VHPD: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/708266.htm

Honda: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/868797.htm

Will also try SELOC but that'll have to wait til I'm home.

[Stephanie Plum]

I know the VHPD car - it's tidy and the owner knows what he's about, some of the work has been done at Back on Track in Guildford afaik and they guys there know their stuff. The Honda one having seen the ad also looks as if everything has been done right - need Scuffers really to explain why the bhp is down a bit, as these days they come out at a lot higher.

Really you need to drive both and see which power delivery you prefer. Do a search on Honda engined cars on here too, lots of useful stuff posted - watch for posts by a guy called Bogie - he had a Honda'd S2 and is very knowledgeable about both the K series and the Honda.

[tertius]

Stephanie Plum said:

I know the VHPD car - it's tidy and the owner knows what he's about, some of the work has been done at Back on Track in Guildford afaik and they guys there know their stuff. The Honda one having seen the ad also looks as if everything has been done right - need Scuffers really to explain why the bhp is down a bit, as these days they come out at a lot higher.

Really you need to drive both and see which power delivery you prefer. Do a search on Honda engined cars on here too, lots of useful stuff posted - watch for posts by a guy called Bogie - he had a Honda'd S2 and is very knowledgeable about both the K series and the Honda.

Thanks very much.

I wondered if the Honda power figure was at the wheels rather than the flywheel? Anyway have mailed the owner.

[IGM]

197hp is what a standard TypeR puts out, it's what the early conversions consisted of, as things progressed Scuffers with the Link-up conversion and others began to develop the ECU,s and such and with good mapping moved very quickly the 197 up to 220hp, with a good exhaust manifold and system you could perhaps see 230hp and with hot cams up to 240+hp

[tertius]

Thanks all.

Anyone have any thoughts on questions 3. and 4.?

cheers

tertius said:

Third, harnesses/suitable seats: some cars have them but many do not, whats a ballpark figure for fitting suitable seats/harnesses/harness bar/anything else I need?

Fourth, good service garages: I live in SW London, are there any reliable Lotus garages in the area? A search has turned up one in Hammersmith called Morland Jones - any comments/experience (via PM if you prefer).

[bogie]

out of those 2 Id go with the Honda car - its a bog std early Blink conversion, with loads of potential in it for tuning when you get bored/used to it...as long as the car is straight and in good nick, then £14K for a HOnda Elise (near £10K conversion) is a bargain

Harnesses wise - if you want a set of brand new, Lotus Motorsport probax seats and Schroth Profi harnesses with a bar, then you are looking at £1800 trimmed/colour of your choice

[tertius]

bogie said:

out of those 2 Id go with the Honda car - its a bog std early Blink conversion, with loads of potential in it for tuning when you get bored/used to it...as long as the car is straight and in good nick, then £14K for a HOnda Elise (near £10K conversion) is a bargain

Harnesses wise - if you want a set of brand new, Lotus Motorsport probax seats and Schroth Profi harnesses with a bar, then you are looking at £1800 trimmed/colour of your choice

Thanks. I have a set of Schroth harnesses in the 993 I could move over, so 1500-ish without harnesses?

[mrdemon]

you can use standard seats and just get a harness bar fitted.

[Stephanie Plum]

Ignore demon.

Don't use standard seats with harnesses - the dangers are well documented. Search on seloc for threads about it.

[Scuffers]

Stephanie Plum said:

Ignore demon.

Don't use standard seats with harnesses - the dangers are well documented. Search on seloc for threads about it.

yup, you need seats with harness 'holes' etc, that said, £1800 for seats and harnesses is a bit rich!

decent 5/6 point harnesses are ~£150 a pop
Harness bars ~£115
Seats ~£440 a pop

so, that's some £1,295 all in for brand new stuff...

[cyberface]

This is something I'm looking at as well (though it's an S2 Exige rather than an S1) - presumably I can recoup some of the cost by flogging the original seats?

[Scuffers]

cyberface said:

This is something I'm looking at as well (though it's an S2 Exige rather than an S1) - presumably I can recoup some of the cost by flogging the original seats?

why not?

there's always a market for this stuff....

[S Works]

Yep, probably £5-600 for probax touring seats.