Discussion
Flame suit on I hope?
What's so bad about the K-series? My one never gave me any trouble (VHPD's another matter though). The VX engine is significantly heavier than the Rover so what it gains in power/torque over a base K is lost in extra lard.
I think the Opel lump IS pretty reliable though, I don't know of any specific weaknesses, although I may be wrong.
What's so bad about the K-series? My one never gave me any trouble (VHPD's another matter though). The VX engine is significantly heavier than the Rover so what it gains in power/torque over a base K is lost in extra lard.
I think the Opel lump IS pretty reliable though, I don't know of any specific weaknesses, although I may be wrong.
Don't believe the hype. All engines have their frailties, the k-series' are well documented and fortunately relatively easy to prevent and/or cure (so long as big power's not your end objective).
Have a read of Chris Randall's build blog for his Europa race car for some objective fact-based stuff about the VX block. It would appear to be a strong bottom end, but Chris has documented some interesting information about various components and especially internal balancing.
http://www.hofmanns.co.uk/content/index.asp?id=63
Worth a read
Have a read of Chris Randall's build blog for his Europa race car for some objective fact-based stuff about the VX block. It would appear to be a strong bottom end, but Chris has documented some interesting information about various components and especially internal balancing.
http://www.hofmanns.co.uk/content/index.asp?id=63
Worth a read
Edited by S Works on Sunday 1st March 21:32
Vauxhall or Lotus? MMnnnn Tough one 
Seriously, the K series is a good engine. Light weight, revs nicely, decent power and reliable. Any potemtial problems have been solved ie metal dowels, better HG, thermostat position for mid engine cars.
The Elise is a better balanced car, better looking, easier to sell.
Seriously, the K series is a good engine. Light weight, revs nicely, decent power and reliable. Any potemtial problems have been solved ie metal dowels, better HG, thermostat position for mid engine cars.
The Elise is a better balanced car, better looking, easier to sell.
There must be thousands of tuned Ks racing/sprinting whatever all over the country evry weekend in Caterhams/Elises etc.
Tuned up to about 170 bhp the K can be a very reliable engine. Its problems are well known and documented and sortable. Once you start getting to 200bhp and beyond then the engine needs regular rebuilds but that would be expected in a race engine.
170 bhp in a series 1 Elise gives you a power/weight ratio very similiar to the Exige S, so a pretty quick car. Have a look at the Elise Trophy race series and you'll find that class A (K series engines up to 170bhp max) have had very few engine problems.
My car (standard 120 bhp )has 72k on the clock and no problems with the engine so far (touch wood).
There are far more expensive worries with a potential Elise purchase than possible hgf on the engine so don't let it worry you. The Elise is generally a very reliable car: you just need to keep on top of the little jobs that come along. If your handy weith the spanners then most jobs are diyable.
Tuned up to about 170 bhp the K can be a very reliable engine. Its problems are well known and documented and sortable. Once you start getting to 200bhp and beyond then the engine needs regular rebuilds but that would be expected in a race engine.
170 bhp in a series 1 Elise gives you a power/weight ratio very similiar to the Exige S, so a pretty quick car. Have a look at the Elise Trophy race series and you'll find that class A (K series engines up to 170bhp max) have had very few engine problems.
My car (standard 120 bhp )has 72k on the clock and no problems with the engine so far (touch wood).
There are far more expensive worries with a potential Elise purchase than possible hgf on the engine so don't let it worry you. The Elise is generally a very reliable car: you just need to keep on top of the little jobs that come along. If your handy weith the spanners then most jobs are diyable.
I had a similar decision to you and i ended up with a S2 111s.
The factors that did it for me.. Power, Looks, MPG, Low tax band, sell on value (if i ever sell it), spare parts and errr oh yeh.. its a Lotus.
And i use it as my only car.
(From what i understand about HGF (i could easily be wrong), its more common in the S1's.. although its only a small minority)
The factors that did it for me.. Power, Looks, MPG, Low tax band, sell on value (if i ever sell it), spare parts and errr oh yeh.. its a Lotus.
And i use it as my only car.
(From what i understand about HGF (i could easily be wrong), its more common in the S1's.. although its only a small minority)
S Works said:
Don't believe the hype. All engines have their frailties, the k-series' are well documented and fortunately relatively easy to prevent and/or cure (so long as big power's not your end objective).
Have a read of Chris Randall's build blog for his Europa race car for some objective fact-based stuff about the VX block. It would appear to be a strong bottom end, but Chris has documented some interesting information about various components and especially internal balancing.
http://www.hofmanns.co.uk/content/index.asp?id=63
Worth a read
I read that with interest last week, I wonder if any of the other VX tuners ever noticed it?Have a read of Chris Randall's build blog for his Europa race car for some objective fact-based stuff about the VX block. It would appear to be a strong bottom end, but Chris has documented some interesting information about various components and especially internal balancing.
http://www.hofmanns.co.uk/content/index.asp?id=63
Worth a read
Edited by S Works on Sunday 1st March 21:32
S Works said:
We're hardly talking high performance engines here though, are we. Not exactly a debate on the level of Ferrari vs. Mclaren is it?
No, only about something that produces around 130hp/litre in some guises from an NA engine (240hp from a 1.8). I think that's marginally more than the Mac or Fezza outputs... 
PS If a K is built properly then they can take a lot of tuning with little problem. As for HGF, then there are lots of documented solutions to this. Granted, straight from the factory engines aren't great and there are head porosity issues....
Sod the engine, the biggest difference between the VX220 and the Elise is the silly 17" front wheel size on the Vauxhall. And they're Vauxhall hubs so you can't use Elise wheels. Both engines are mass-market and easily and cheaply replaceable or repairable if they go wrong. The K has a very small volume coolant system and that's where all the internet legend about HGF comes from - if you're the sort of person who wants a bulletproof car and would be constantly watching the temperature readout, worrying about the Elise overheating (like mine always did) then you'd be better off with a VX or a Toyota engined Elise.
However, if you haven't got budget to swap the wheels for proper Elise sized rims (16 at front) then the Elise handles better, simple as that. It's lighter, but the earlier Lotuses simply weren't built as well as the VXs (Vauxhall lost their rag with Lotus' lack of QC on the first VXs and got them all independently inspected and rectified before sale). However, if you're looking at older K series Elises, then any enthusiast-owned car should have most of the niggles ironed out by now.
The nasp VX220 has a good strong engine - what it loses out to the K in lightness it regains in reliability. If you're not planning to tune the thing to hell then I'd not read *too* much into Chris Randall's build since firstly he's racing, and secondly he's got the 2 litre turbo rather than the 2.2 normally aspirated motor.
The VX will feel a hell of a lot torquier but the car is heavier. Other than that, if you can swap the wheels then it's purely down to how you like to drive (and whether image and snob value mean anything to you) - if you prefer mid-range torque to high-rev power then the VX will probably feel better to drive. You can go faster in the Lotus but the K series cars don't have the nicest of gearchanges and it's worth trying quite a few different cars as there's a lot of variability.
In short, as always with these discussions, you need to try both. They both feel different - servo brakes and torquey engine on the VX, sharper handling (assuming the VX is on 17s), lighter weight, unservoed brakes and revvier engine on the Lotus. I've owned both, and driven the variants I haven't owned - I loved my VXT but the wheel swap was utterly essential (and I had a turbo). In a lairy colour I actually think the VX looks good as well.
Oh, and one more thing - leaky roofs... Lotus redesigned the roof and window seals continuously over the lifetime of the different models. Early Elises will leak. The VX is like an S1.5 Elise and can be made more watertight but only with the later seals as fitted to the VXTs. All cars can be upgraded, and due to the enthusiast following, there aren't many completely standard cars still out there. So decide what matters to you, and find a car where the required mods have already been done by the last owner
However, if you haven't got budget to swap the wheels for proper Elise sized rims (16 at front) then the Elise handles better, simple as that. It's lighter, but the earlier Lotuses simply weren't built as well as the VXs (Vauxhall lost their rag with Lotus' lack of QC on the first VXs and got them all independently inspected and rectified before sale). However, if you're looking at older K series Elises, then any enthusiast-owned car should have most of the niggles ironed out by now.
The nasp VX220 has a good strong engine - what it loses out to the K in lightness it regains in reliability. If you're not planning to tune the thing to hell then I'd not read *too* much into Chris Randall's build since firstly he's racing, and secondly he's got the 2 litre turbo rather than the 2.2 normally aspirated motor.
The VX will feel a hell of a lot torquier but the car is heavier. Other than that, if you can swap the wheels then it's purely down to how you like to drive (and whether image and snob value mean anything to you) - if you prefer mid-range torque to high-rev power then the VX will probably feel better to drive. You can go faster in the Lotus but the K series cars don't have the nicest of gearchanges and it's worth trying quite a few different cars as there's a lot of variability.
In short, as always with these discussions, you need to try both. They both feel different - servo brakes and torquey engine on the VX, sharper handling (assuming the VX is on 17s), lighter weight, unservoed brakes and revvier engine on the Lotus. I've owned both, and driven the variants I haven't owned - I loved my VXT but the wheel swap was utterly essential (and I had a turbo). In a lairy colour I actually think the VX looks good as well.
Oh, and one more thing - leaky roofs... Lotus redesigned the roof and window seals continuously over the lifetime of the different models. Early Elises will leak. The VX is like an S1.5 Elise and can be made more watertight but only with the later seals as fitted to the VXTs. All cars can be upgraded, and due to the enthusiast following, there aren't many completely standard cars still out there. So decide what matters to you, and find a car where the required mods have already been done by the last owner
Esprit said:
fergus said:
PS If a K is built properly then they can take a lot of tuning with little problem.
Oh god I hope so.... I'm hoping for about 230 ponies and some semblence of reliability (not expecting it to be a toyota corolla mind)jasgti said:
ok i know this is the elise forum so their may be bit of bias but surely the vauxhall engine in the vx220 is better than a hgf k series , someone please convince me otherwise, or i am going to end with a vauxhall keyring and not a lotus!
best answer of the lot - save up a bit more and buy a yota engined elise.bordseye said:
jasgti said:
ok i know this is the elise forum so their may be bit of bias but surely the vauxhall engine in the vx220 is better than a hgf k series , someone please convince me otherwise, or i am going to end with a vauxhall keyring and not a lotus!
best answer of the lot - save up a bit more and buy a yota engined elise.
Car is far to heavy nowadays. They have cup holders you know? Shocking!some great responses , thanks for all the advice ,it appears that when i do take the plunge their are plenty of people with good advice, i dont mind playing with spanners so it doesnt appear there is to much to worry about, a caterham was my original choice because i could maintain myself but the other half hates them so the elise is a bit of a compromise.
bordseye said:
we all agree to that - any elise is better than a caterham.
Why? In ouright speed and handling terms surely the caterham is the winner? In comfort, day to day usability, practicality, etc, the Elise wins hands down.My 240hp K series 490kg 7 against your Elise. Name the road...
I'm seriously considering getting an Exige (if I can fit) to complement my 7 due to the reasons above. I daren't take it down to the South of France, unless there's a trailer involved..
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