Elise SC or 111R
Discussion
Hi - I need some help.
Can not decide which one of these two elise to go for. Would not be my main car and would be for track days and weekend use.
I am looking at 2 options 1)2004 111R, 7000miles, basic spec (no air con, wind up windows) but with exige wheels, 4 point harness etc - circa £19K
and 2) New elise sc type 25 (not to everyone's taste but I like the classic look),£36k, available on 50% payable and now 50% in 12months time at 0% interest.
Driven the 111R which I loved but not the SC as yet. Need to make decision quickly re the type 25 as only 2 left.
Any views on main differences between these cars very welcome - especially if you have owned both.
Thanks for any thoughts on what I should do.
Can not decide which one of these two elise to go for. Would not be my main car and would be for track days and weekend use.
I am looking at 2 options 1)2004 111R, 7000miles, basic spec (no air con, wind up windows) but with exige wheels, 4 point harness etc - circa £19K
and 2) New elise sc type 25 (not to everyone's taste but I like the classic look),£36k, available on 50% payable and now 50% in 12months time at 0% interest.
Driven the 111R which I loved but not the SC as yet. Need to make decision quickly re the type 25 as only 2 left.
Any views on main differences between these cars very welcome - especially if you have owned both.
Thanks for any thoughts on what I should do.
Hi there,
I own an R and have driven the SC but not type 25. But couple of points as follows:
SC type 25 - Type does look very good inside and out and I would think it is pretty quick on the track with its uprated suspension, and semi slicks, I am not does it have uprated Toe links - Think that people recommend uprated toe links for track days (if you do a lot) I am not a tech so ask someone in the know! But other than that this thing is ready to go for the track. I would imagine the depreciation would be less step than normal models but still going to be a lot more than a 2004 car I guess. The SC is lot better if you like power at the low end of the power band and do not like shifting gear all the time to be in the power band (unlike the R) Think with a Larini or Simliar it would be a lot better - When I had a go in the SC I was bit disappointed with the sound of it, for me on the R with a Larini it is good (for a 4 pot).
111R 2004 model - Sounds a bit on the high price side for a 2004, 2006 has a new pedal box layout and is better for heal and toe, which I guess might be quite important if you planning on tracking it - again ask around, there must be a fix for 2004 cars I would of thought. Exige wheels - are they the lightweight versions like on the sports racer - if so pretty good I would imgaine - otherwise you could always get another set pretty cheap later on for track. What suspension is on it - to track it you might wont to budget in a good suspension set up around 1500 - 3500 depending on choice ohlins or Nitron's. and again uprated toe links for a lot of tracks days - but I dont really know what I am talking about. Sure someone at Back on track/plans or the alike could advise you.
Summary: The SC Type is very nice and looks the business, but your talking a massive price difference. If you like keep the power in the narrow power band in the R (I.e. 6000 -8500RPM) you will love it, even compared to SC. If you like a bit more torque lower down the rev range and require a bit more power SC maybe more your cup of tea it is hugely quick and feels a lot smoother on power delivery, it has the same cam as R but it is linear with trottle input rather than just changing at 6000rpm).
I love the R for the fact it has enough power to enjoy nice B roads to the track and then then second cam for the track. But you do have to work the gears on the R a lot more.(I am not that technical and as you can see probably not the best explanation on the difference between SC and R!)
I sure your have thought about it but if your tracking the car - Exige ?
Sorry very long winded reply and overall I would be very tempeted with Type 25, as think it looks amazing, I have been very tempted seeing it in the flesh a couple of times. Money no object I would be going for the Type 25 with updated Larini or Tubular etc.
I own an R and have driven the SC but not type 25. But couple of points as follows:
SC type 25 - Type does look very good inside and out and I would think it is pretty quick on the track with its uprated suspension, and semi slicks, I am not does it have uprated Toe links - Think that people recommend uprated toe links for track days (if you do a lot) I am not a tech so ask someone in the know! But other than that this thing is ready to go for the track. I would imagine the depreciation would be less step than normal models but still going to be a lot more than a 2004 car I guess. The SC is lot better if you like power at the low end of the power band and do not like shifting gear all the time to be in the power band (unlike the R) Think with a Larini or Simliar it would be a lot better - When I had a go in the SC I was bit disappointed with the sound of it, for me on the R with a Larini it is good (for a 4 pot).
111R 2004 model - Sounds a bit on the high price side for a 2004, 2006 has a new pedal box layout and is better for heal and toe, which I guess might be quite important if you planning on tracking it - again ask around, there must be a fix for 2004 cars I would of thought. Exige wheels - are they the lightweight versions like on the sports racer - if so pretty good I would imgaine - otherwise you could always get another set pretty cheap later on for track. What suspension is on it - to track it you might wont to budget in a good suspension set up around 1500 - 3500 depending on choice ohlins or Nitron's. and again uprated toe links for a lot of tracks days - but I dont really know what I am talking about. Sure someone at Back on track/plans or the alike could advise you.
Summary: The SC Type is very nice and looks the business, but your talking a massive price difference. If you like keep the power in the narrow power band in the R (I.e. 6000 -8500RPM) you will love it, even compared to SC. If you like a bit more torque lower down the rev range and require a bit more power SC maybe more your cup of tea it is hugely quick and feels a lot smoother on power delivery, it has the same cam as R but it is linear with trottle input rather than just changing at 6000rpm).
I love the R for the fact it has enough power to enjoy nice B roads to the track and then then second cam for the track. But you do have to work the gears on the R a lot more.(I am not that technical and as you can see probably not the best explanation on the difference between SC and R!)
I sure your have thought about it but if your tracking the car - Exige ?
Sorry very long winded reply and overall I would be very tempeted with Type 25, as think it looks amazing, I have been very tempted seeing it in the flesh a couple of times. Money no object I would be going for the Type 25 with updated Larini or Tubular etc.
Edited by Stu_00 on Monday 27th April 12:56
Edited by Stu_00 on Monday 27th April 12:58
Edited by Stu_00 on Monday 27th April 13:02
Hi,
Having owned 2 R's and currently own an Elise SC the choice is very difficult, I'd go for an R change the bit's and bob's you want then in a year or so get the official Lotus SC upgrade
You can build the car you want for the same type of money then add some power once you've got used to it
Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the Elise SC it's fantastic but if you're going to use on track days a lot the R would be a better place to start
P.s. I've done a fair few track days now and you can't really notice the difference, Elise SC is a fantastic touring car thou
Boggy
Having owned 2 R's and currently own an Elise SC the choice is very difficult, I'd go for an R change the bit's and bob's you want then in a year or so get the official Lotus SC upgrade
You can build the car you want for the same type of money then add some power once you've got used to it
Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the Elise SC it's fantastic but if you're going to use on track days a lot the R would be a better place to start
P.s. I've done a fair few track days now and you can't really notice the difference, Elise SC is a fantastic touring car thou
Boggy
Stu_00 - many thanks for response, very helpful - lots of things to consider.
The 111R will need changes to the suspension and you are correct re the heel/toe difficulties with the pedal box, (not sure how easy it is to fix).
Though about an exige but just can't give up on open top motoring!
The 111R will need changes to the suspension and you are correct re the heel/toe difficulties with the pedal box, (not sure how easy it is to fix).
Though about an exige but just can't give up on open top motoring!
Hi there,
I edited a couple of points above. but yes I think the pedal box is very important, even on the uprated 2006 setup the brake still has too much movement but still very good for heal / toe.
Personally I love the R, mine is 2006 model and have been pleased with it. When I had a go in the SC I was just not taken away with it and could not justify changing, and prefered the cam change in the R. Recently did Spa, which was great. I have standard touring suspension and only uprated thing is Pagid pads - RS 4-2's which are simply amazing on the road / track. I actually will keep touring suspension as enjoy the Elise on the road more and only do a small amount of track work.
Also: Not sure about seats, if your tracking it Exige seats like in the Type 25 would be a good upgrade!
The extra money you save could go towards more track days, but as I say I would still be tempted with Type 25.
Sorry not helping your decision making.
I edited a couple of points above. but yes I think the pedal box is very important, even on the uprated 2006 setup the brake still has too much movement but still very good for heal / toe.
Personally I love the R, mine is 2006 model and have been pleased with it. When I had a go in the SC I was just not taken away with it and could not justify changing, and prefered the cam change in the R. Recently did Spa, which was great. I have standard touring suspension and only uprated thing is Pagid pads - RS 4-2's which are simply amazing on the road / track. I actually will keep touring suspension as enjoy the Elise on the road more and only do a small amount of track work.
Also: Not sure about seats, if your tracking it Exige seats like in the Type 25 would be a good upgrade!
The extra money you save could go towards more track days, but as I say I would still be tempted with Type 25.
Sorry not helping your decision making.
toffee said:
Stu_00 - many thanks for response, very helpful - lots of things to consider.
The 111R will need changes to the suspension and you are correct re the heel/toe difficulties with the pedal box, (not sure how easy it is to fix).
Though about an exige but just can't give up on open top motoring!
The 111R will need changes to the suspension and you are correct re the heel/toe difficulties with the pedal box, (not sure how easy it is to fix).
Though about an exige but just can't give up on open top motoring!
I love my R and find it more fun because of the comedy power step. But you need to drive both as there are many here who prefer more low down torque. Not me, I love motorbikes so high rev lunacy is my thing. But if you can stretch to a type 25 then go for it. I dont think youd regret it. Stunning car and a very good compromise for road and track. Just make sure you put a louder pipe on it. Just too quiet as standard and a bit ordinary sounding.
I was in a simular spot earlier this year. I wanted another Elise (I'm now on my 3rd) and my decision was an R or SC. My requirement was regular road use and track days. I liked the R but to make it feel anything near 190bhp you have to rev the nuts off it. Ok on quiet B roads but I think could be off cam too much of the time in normal road use. Also didn't feel quick enough for me. I wanted a newer car and supercharging an R could effect it's resale price in a bad way.
After I drove the SC I realised this was the one to have. MUCH quicker, power is there all the time without having to rev it like crazy. When you are "on it" it revs to 8500 but has power all of the way through the rev range. My other car is a RS4 (B7) and I swear the SC is faster. The SC does sound boring standard. I've fitted the TRD high flow airbox and filter along with a 2Bular 8x22 exhaust. It now sounds amazing but not intrusive when cruising on the motorway. The airbox increases the supercharger whine, sounds great (especially at 8000 rpm).
Just my personal opinion. You must drive the SC and make your own mind up.
Enjoy
Chris
After I drove the SC I realised this was the one to have. MUCH quicker, power is there all the time without having to rev it like crazy. When you are "on it" it revs to 8500 but has power all of the way through the rev range. My other car is a RS4 (B7) and I swear the SC is faster. The SC does sound boring standard. I've fitted the TRD high flow airbox and filter along with a 2Bular 8x22 exhaust. It now sounds amazing but not intrusive when cruising on the motorway. The airbox increases the supercharger whine, sounds great (especially at 8000 rpm).
Just my personal opinion. You must drive the SC and make your own mind up.
Enjoy
Chris
Go for the 111r, i'm not sure the depreciation on the 36k SC special would be worth the extra you'll get out of the SC. I've also heard the power delivery is very off (bumpy, this was from Matt Neal the touring car driver) but best to drive one yourself. I have an NA exige and love it- and it's damn fast if you're used to normal cars! Not wanting to dent things but with 19k (especially with that spec is over the top) you should be looking for a 15k miles/air con/ touring pack 2005/6.
Si
Si
Edited by Si_man306 on Tuesday 28th April 13:10
Thanks all for your replies - still finding it a very hard choice!
Interestingly, the reason I like this specific R, is because it is basic spec, but, has lots of what I would want for track days. Could definitely find a cheaper car but think would then spend money on getting to a similar spec?
Think I am leaning towards the R - but will also look at what other Rs are out there.
Will let you know how I go.
Interestingly, the reason I like this specific R, is because it is basic spec, but, has lots of what I would want for track days. Could definitely find a cheaper car but think would then spend money on getting to a similar spec?
Think I am leaning towards the R - but will also look at what other Rs are out there.
Will let you know how I go.
Si_man306 said:
Go for the 111r, i'm not sure the depreciation on the 36k SC special would be worth the extra you'll get out of the SC. I've also heard the power delivery is very off (bumpy, this was from Matt Neal the touring car driver) but best to drive one yourself. I have an NA exige and love it- and it's damn fast if you're used to normal cars! Not wanting to dent things but with 19k (especially with that spec is over the top) you should be looking for a 15k miles/air con/ touring pack 2005/6.
Si
Agreed - I paid £17,500 for '06 111R with 6,000miles, touring, A/C, lifestyle colour and 2.5 years extended warranty in February. For £36,000, you could buy a decent R for every day use and a an S1 Sport 160 to track. I would also recommend the later models with the better pedal box and the Probax seats. I have a back problem and the Probax haven't given me a moment's bother, even on a 250 mile drive.Si
Edited by Si_man306 on Tuesday 28th April 13:10
I had a N/A Exige S2 for a couple of years of mainly road use. Loved it, brilliant car. The engine character is great fun, but in my experience it's just a little too much effort to keep it on the boil for normal B-road blasting. Can spoil the enjoyment of flowing from corner to corner.
I've been without an Elise/Exige for almost a year now and I've decided I absolutely need another one. Thought the Elise SC would definitely be the one for me, also really like the Type 25. Was disappointed that it's fitted with the track suspension and AO48s, would definitely buy one if it had the road set up and more practical tyres. Those tyres were the only negative for me when I ran the Exige.
Looking for a decent Elise SC, some good ones around for £25-£27k.
Could be a good option for you?
I've been without an Elise/Exige for almost a year now and I've decided I absolutely need another one. Thought the Elise SC would definitely be the one for me, also really like the Type 25. Was disappointed that it's fitted with the track suspension and AO48s, would definitely buy one if it had the road set up and more practical tyres. Those tyres were the only negative for me when I ran the Exige.
Looking for a decent Elise SC, some good ones around for £25-£27k.
Could be a good option for you?
I think the R makes a lot of sense for the track, just one or two corners where you cannot decide between first, second or third to keep on the second cam. But actually this just adds added dimension / challenge.
On the road, most of the time on a flowing road you dont really need the second cam, in my opinion. When driving on the road it has enough torque below 6,000 rpm to have a good cross country pace.
I have some great twisty routes (Just as enjoyable as the track) to a well known track and love the fact that on the way you can enjoy the twisties below 6,000 rpm, then when you get to the track it open up into second cam track fun. Then nice gentle journey back still with enough pace without second cam, with the cornering of the elise very few non alpine roads actually require the second cam IMO.
Ahhh when does work finish.......lol
Great time to buy !
On the road, most of the time on a flowing road you dont really need the second cam, in my opinion. When driving on the road it has enough torque below 6,000 rpm to have a good cross country pace.
I have some great twisty routes (Just as enjoyable as the track) to a well known track and love the fact that on the way you can enjoy the twisties below 6,000 rpm, then when you get to the track it open up into second cam track fun. Then nice gentle journey back still with enough pace without second cam, with the cornering of the elise very few non alpine roads actually require the second cam IMO.
Ahhh when does work finish.......lol
Great time to buy !
Hi
If you look on Pistonhead Sales there is an Elise R at Lipscombe which (apart from the pipercross and stage 2 I have) is identical to my R. It is described as 1 of 2 but there were 4 in total. I didn't buy mine from there but the spec would suit your track day stuff perfectly, plus it feels real compliant on the road due to the adjustable suspension. Also I bet you could get the 50 50 deal on that car. It is white with a persian blue stripe and just under £30k. I love mine.
edited to add: and I didn't pay that much either!
If you look on Pistonhead Sales there is an Elise R at Lipscombe which (apart from the pipercross and stage 2 I have) is identical to my R. It is described as 1 of 2 but there were 4 in total. I didn't buy mine from there but the spec would suit your track day stuff perfectly, plus it feels real compliant on the road due to the adjustable suspension. Also I bet you could get the 50 50 deal on that car. It is white with a persian blue stripe and just under £30k. I love mine.
edited to add: and I didn't pay that much either!
Edited by sjhoward1974 on Wednesday 29th April 12:14
I have seen that in the flesh - Looks amazing and very nice interior.
Could be a very tasty option - Look almost better than Type 25 - not much in it!
Could be a very tasty option - Look almost better than Type 25 - not much in it!
sjhoward1974 said:
Hi
If you look on Pistonhead Sales there is an Elise R at Lipscombe which (apart from the pipercross and stage 2 I have) is identical to my R. It is described as 1 of 2 but there were 4 in total. I didn't buy mine from there but the spec would suit your track day stuff perfectly, plus it feels real compliant on the road due to the adjustable suspension. Also I bet you could get the 50 50 deal on that car. It is white with a persian blue stripe and just under £30k. I love mine.
edited to add: and I didn't pay that much either!
If you look on Pistonhead Sales there is an Elise R at Lipscombe which (apart from the pipercross and stage 2 I have) is identical to my R. It is described as 1 of 2 but there were 4 in total. I didn't buy mine from there but the spec would suit your track day stuff perfectly, plus it feels real compliant on the road due to the adjustable suspension. Also I bet you could get the 50 50 deal on that car. It is white with a persian blue stripe and just under £30k. I love mine.
edited to add: and I didn't pay that much either!
Edited by sjhoward1974 on Wednesday 29th April 12:14
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