Calling Scuffers!
Discussion
Simon,
S1 N/A Sincs conversion.
Should the shaft, immediately after the inner CV boot get really hot? By hot I mean you can touch it for about 10 seconds, before needing to let go.
This is after a really hard blat.
Granted it's directly beneath the manifold.
I've had 3 inner boots go last year, mainly due to soft engine mounts, which were specified by the previous owner. Once I diagnosed that it had soft mounts, I had these changed. The problem went away for around 6 months. In that time, I've done around 6 trackdays, and it get used hard.
I've encountered some weeping from the inner joint, but nothing like the boot just letting go. It's all intact.
Any thoughts on this chap? The n/s joint has always been fine.
One further thing. The gearbox has always made a "thum, theum, thum" noise. I've been told that potentially the main bearing or possibly the diff bearing couls be seized, therefore creating more heat in the o/s shaft. This could be b
ks, but the gearbox isn't the quietest.
TIA
S1 N/A Sincs conversion.
Should the shaft, immediately after the inner CV boot get really hot? By hot I mean you can touch it for about 10 seconds, before needing to let go.
This is after a really hard blat.
Granted it's directly beneath the manifold.
I've had 3 inner boots go last year, mainly due to soft engine mounts, which were specified by the previous owner. Once I diagnosed that it had soft mounts, I had these changed. The problem went away for around 6 months. In that time, I've done around 6 trackdays, and it get used hard.
I've encountered some weeping from the inner joint, but nothing like the boot just letting go. It's all intact.
Any thoughts on this chap? The n/s joint has always been fine.
One further thing. The gearbox has always made a "thum, theum, thum" noise. I've been told that potentially the main bearing or possibly the diff bearing couls be seized, therefore creating more heat in the o/s shaft. This could be b
ks, but the gearbox isn't the quietest.TIA
Edited by 4pot on Thursday 11th June 20:47
Edited by 4pot on Thursday 11th June 20:48
Edited by 4pot on Thursday 11th June 21:05
do you mean the intermediate shaft?
this is from the right hand side of the gearbox to the bearing carrier on the engine block and on to the inboard tripod joint.
ideally there should be a cover over this to shield it from the exhaust, specifically the bearing and the joint are.
in normal hard use, the shaft itself will get hot, that said, if it's over 100C then you need to look at it, the tripod itself will also get hot all on it;s own when worked hard, if they do get over hot, then the grease expands and can boil off, this is usually seen as grease spatter out of the boot.
without seeing what's around it, it's hard to tell what exactly your issue is.
this is from the right hand side of the gearbox to the bearing carrier on the engine block and on to the inboard tripod joint.
ideally there should be a cover over this to shield it from the exhaust, specifically the bearing and the joint are.
in normal hard use, the shaft itself will get hot, that said, if it's over 100C then you need to look at it, the tripod itself will also get hot all on it;s own when worked hard, if they do get over hot, then the grease expands and can boil off, this is usually seen as grease spatter out of the boot.
without seeing what's around it, it's hard to tell what exactly your issue is.
Scuffers said:
do you mean the intermediate shaft?
this is from the right hand side of the gearbox to the bearing carrier on the engine block and on to the inboard tripod joint.
ideally there should be a cover over this to shield it from the exhaust, specifically the bearing and the joint are.
in normal hard use, the shaft itself will get hot, that said, if it's over 100C then you need to look at it, the tripod itself will also get hot all on it;s own when worked hard, if they do get over hot, then the grease expands and can boil off, this is usually seen as grease spatter out of the boot.
without seeing what's around it, it's hard to tell what exactly your issue is.
Simon,this is from the right hand side of the gearbox to the bearing carrier on the engine block and on to the inboard tripod joint.
ideally there should be a cover over this to shield it from the exhaust, specifically the bearing and the joint are.
in normal hard use, the shaft itself will get hot, that said, if it's over 100C then you need to look at it, the tripod itself will also get hot all on it;s own when worked hard, if they do get over hot, then the grease expands and can boil off, this is usually seen as grease spatter out of the boot.
without seeing what's around it, it's hard to tell what exactly your issue is.
Yep, the intermediate shaft. It has a black cover over it, to sheild it from the manifold. Last year, I had 3 boots go, all three were put down to soft engine mounts (specced by the previous owner). One sheared, and teh othr two simply pissed all their grease out.
For the past 6 months it's been fine. Having just spoken to a friend, he mentioned that the intermediate shaft could be the issue. The n/s shaft never proves problematic, and was cold, as it should be. The o/s shaft was, as I said earlier, very hot. I could touch it for around 10 seconds, but then my fingers had had enough. Surely the shaft shouldn't get hot?
Any idea how long the inter shaft could last? Could this be the real course of my problems over the past 15 months? My old S2 Honda (same set up) never posed aproblem.
Thansk for replying Simon, appreciate your help to diagnose it.
Rich (Bugelise from Seloc)
Edited by 4pot on Thursday 11th June 22:07
Rich,
I'll butt in mate, if I may.
Simon, Rich rang me tonight and we had a good chat about this. Rich is describing the driveshaft getting hot, not the intermediate shaft, i.e between the hub and CV joint that sits by the subframe.
I suggested it might be the heat from the exhaust coupled with a possibly knackered intermediate shaft bearing (Tripod Bearing I think you mentioned) transfering a lot of heat into the drive shaft.
Not knowing the Honda set up very well, are the tripod bearings re-greasable or do they need replacing? Are they prone to failure? I see form various images that the manifolds sit very close to this bearing so I assume any heat shielding would be beneficial??
Just thought I would interject..
Cheers,
Mark
I'll butt in mate, if I may.
Simon, Rich rang me tonight and we had a good chat about this. Rich is describing the driveshaft getting hot, not the intermediate shaft, i.e between the hub and CV joint that sits by the subframe.
I suggested it might be the heat from the exhaust coupled with a possibly knackered intermediate shaft bearing (Tripod Bearing I think you mentioned) transfering a lot of heat into the drive shaft.
Not knowing the Honda set up very well, are the tripod bearings re-greasable or do they need replacing? Are they prone to failure? I see form various images that the manifolds sit very close to this bearing so I assume any heat shielding would be beneficial??
Just thought I would interject..
Cheers,
Mark
Picture would help here....
the intermediate shaft itself is not going to be the issue, however, it sit's in a bearing bolted to the block, these don't respond well to being cooked - hence the cover.
reading between the lines, it's the tripod joint on the end of the intershaft that your talking about?
these are not like CV's in that they have needle bearings in them, not balls like a Lobo's etc. the grease they use is specific to the type of joint, and it's more like a cross between grease and heavy oil, most people use GKN tripod grease or the like.
if the tripod is getting too hot, then it's either from exhaust heat or the join itself is out of grease/worn or running at a strange angle, if you have been loosing grease, then it really needs to be removed, cleaned and, if still OK, re-packed or replaced.
I don't go with putting vents on them, this just splats grease everywhere, when running at usual temps, the grease is very liquid-like, and will just escape, the trick is to put in the grease (~75ml)then when fitting the boot, evacuate as much air from inside the joint as you can, if there is too much air int he joint, as it heats up, this expands and ballon's the boot out, this then catches something and split's it or just gives the grease inside some pressure to work past the clips etc.
the intermediate shaft itself is not going to be the issue, however, it sit's in a bearing bolted to the block, these don't respond well to being cooked - hence the cover.
reading between the lines, it's the tripod joint on the end of the intershaft that your talking about?
these are not like CV's in that they have needle bearings in them, not balls like a Lobo's etc. the grease they use is specific to the type of joint, and it's more like a cross between grease and heavy oil, most people use GKN tripod grease or the like.
if the tripod is getting too hot, then it's either from exhaust heat or the join itself is out of grease/worn or running at a strange angle, if you have been loosing grease, then it really needs to be removed, cleaned and, if still OK, re-packed or replaced.
I don't go with putting vents on them, this just splats grease everywhere, when running at usual temps, the grease is very liquid-like, and will just escape, the trick is to put in the grease (~75ml)then when fitting the boot, evacuate as much air from inside the joint as you can, if there is too much air int he joint, as it heats up, this expands and ballon's the boot out, this then catches something and split's it or just gives the grease inside some pressure to work past the clips etc.
Simon,
The inner tripond has been checked, and confirmed as being fine, although I'll have this checked again. So, from what you say, it appears that the intermediate shaft shouldn't be the problem, but this cannot be discounted.
I'm awaiting on a call from Hoffmans, regarding one of their smaller Inner CV boots. I've been recommended to use race spec grease, which has a 500c limit.
As far as I can see, it can only be one of teh following:
- One of the first Sincs conversions, so has a different manifold. This could be heating up the shaft more than later cars.
- The inner tripod is buggered, hence the issue reoccuring.
- The intermediate shaft is buggered, so causing excessive heat build up.
- The shaft is completely at teh wrong angle.
The inner tripond has been checked, and confirmed as being fine, although I'll have this checked again. So, from what you say, it appears that the intermediate shaft shouldn't be the problem, but this cannot be discounted.
I'm awaiting on a call from Hoffmans, regarding one of their smaller Inner CV boots. I've been recommended to use race spec grease, which has a 500c limit.
As far as I can see, it can only be one of teh following:
- One of the first Sincs conversions, so has a different manifold. This could be heating up the shaft more than later cars.
- The inner tripod is buggered, hence the issue reoccuring.
- The intermediate shaft is buggered, so causing excessive heat build up.
- The shaft is completely at teh wrong angle.
I've ordered an intermediate shaft bearing, only £31, so worth getting if the bearing has gone.
I'm going to take the car out for a very gentle ride and see if the shaft gets hot, without any hard use, or engauging Vtec. If it gets hot, I assume this means that either the shaft has gone (hasn't lost much grease, so the tripod itself is knackered) or the intermediate shaft bearingis causing it.
A process of elimination.
I'm going to take the car out for a very gentle ride and see if the shaft gets hot, without any hard use, or engauging Vtec. If it gets hot, I assume this means that either the shaft has gone (hasn't lost much grease, so the tripod itself is knackered) or the intermediate shaft bearingis causing it.
A process of elimination.
Scuffers said:
not sure I follow your logic here?
you can easy check the bearing etc once you have pulled the intershaft off the car, it will be very obvious if it's goose'd.
PM sent.
How much play should be in this bearing/bearing housing, mine has always had a, perhaps significant amount of play, is this normal Simon?you can easy check the bearing etc once you have pulled the intershaft off the car, it will be very obvious if it's goose'd.
PM sent.
IGM said:
Scuffers said:
not sure I follow your logic here?
you can easy check the bearing etc once you have pulled the intershaft off the car, it will be very obvious if it's goose'd.
PM sent.
How much play should be in this bearing/bearing housing, mine has always had a, perhaps significant amount of play, is this normal Simon?you can easy check the bearing etc once you have pulled the intershaft off the car, it will be very obvious if it's goose'd.
PM sent.
Scuffers said:
IGM said:
Scuffers said:
not sure I follow your logic here?
you can easy check the bearing etc once you have pulled the intershaft off the car, it will be very obvious if it's goose'd.
PM sent.
How much play should be in this bearing/bearing housing, mine has always had a, perhaps significant amount of play, is this normal Simon?you can easy check the bearing etc once you have pulled the intershaft off the car, it will be very obvious if it's goose'd.
PM sent.
Scuffers said:
define play?
From what I can recall, it wasn't the sort of play you get with knackered typical bearings, more like a rubbery give in the bearing housing, literally as if the bearing is housed in a rubber doughnut? It's a while since I studied it, it was when I had trouble with splitting Tripod boots, thus spending much time on my back underneath the car studying the gubbings!Also Chris sent my car back with only the small metal cowl which just covers the bearing, the rest of the intermediate shaft is exposed to the manifold, is this normal for a Link-up conversion?
Cheers
Ian
IGM said:
Scuffers said:
define play?
From what I can recall, it wasn't the sort of play you get with knackered typical bearings, more like a rubbery give in the bearing housing, literally as if the bearing is housed in a rubber doughnut? It's a while since I studied it, it was when I had trouble with splitting Tripod boots, thus spending much time on my back underneath the car studying the gubbings!Also Chris sent my car back with only the small metal cowl which just covers the bearing, the rest of the intermediate shaft is exposed to the manifold, is this normal for a Link-up conversion?
Cheers
Ian
intershaft bearing is in a rubber casing, so yes, it can be moved radially with force, this is normal - it's to damp out the driveline vibrations from the engine.
the shaft itself is not bothered by heat as such, just the bearing, depends on which manifold you have, some have the full shaft covered some just the bearing.
Scuffers said:
IGM said:
Scuffers said:
define play?
From what I can recall, it wasn't the sort of play you get with knackered typical bearings, more like a rubbery give in the bearing housing, literally as if the bearing is housed in a rubber doughnut? It's a while since I studied it, it was when I had trouble with splitting Tripod boots, thus spending much time on my back underneath the car studying the gubbings!Also Chris sent my car back with only the small metal cowl which just covers the bearing, the rest of the intermediate shaft is exposed to the manifold, is this normal for a Link-up conversion?
Cheers
Ian
intershaft bearing is in a rubber casing, so yes, it can be moved radially with force, this is normal - it's to damp out the driveline vibrations from the engine.
the shaft itself is not bothered by heat as such, just the bearing, depends on which manifold you have, some have the full shaft covered some just the bearing.
Many thanks for your help Simon
Cheers
Ian
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