Elise S1 Engine Upgrade

[tomgoring]

Hi All,

I have an standard 1999 Elise S1 (120BHP non VVC).
I've owned it from new and I think it's now time to spend some money on it!

I have around 2k to spend on juicing it up.
I'm thinking about getting a 160BHP VVC Engine from a Rover ZR for about £800.
I think that would be a good start.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Tom

[Esprit]

That's one way of doing it, but beware, the wiring to convert to a VVC is a little tricky. Also if you've got an early car you'll need a later engine-cover to clear the taller VVC head.

Another alternative is to whip your head off, send it to Dave Andrews (DVAPower) and get a K13 upgrade... should yield a genuine 150+bhp and will work with your stock bottom end

[tomgoring]

Thanks for the Tip.

So you would go with modifying the current engine rather than a replacement.
I was looking at that but it seemed replacing the engine would maybe be a more straight forward route.

I guess you can't fit a VVC head on a non VVC engine?

[Esprit]

You can fit a VVC head on a non-vvc engine, but you still run into the same electrical problems.

You can alsu use the VVC head and blank off the VVC mechanism as the VVC head has larger ports and valves. This is a good base for tuning.... but if you're going to this level, to really take advantage of the extra power you'll want to look at beginning to uprate the bottom end as well.

[bogie]

www.dvapower.co.uk - take a look at the options and read the K series page by Dave, on how it works - that will give you a good start

[Scuffers]

Esprit said:

That's one way of doing it, but beware, the wiring to convert to a VVC is a little tricky. Also if you've got an early car you'll need a later engine-cover to clear the taller VVC head.

Another alternative is to whip your head off, send it to Dave Andrews (DVAPower) and get a K13 upgrade... should yield a genuine 150+bhp and will work with your stock bottom end

err. that's not the case...

VVC engine whilst taller will still fit under std cover...

also, all you need is the engine loom from the Elise 111S, it;s ECU and AS5 module. the rest is plug-and-play.

[tomgoring]

Scuffers said:

also, all you need is the engine loom from the Elise 111S, it;s ECU and AS5 module. the rest is plug-and-play.

I was going to get the ECU along with the engine off a rover ZR.
Will this work ? or does the loom etc need to come off a Elise 111S

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2002-MG-ZR-1-8-VVC-160-K-SER...

Thanks all for you help with this.

[tomgoring]

tomgoring said:

Scuffers said:

also, all you need is the engine loom from the Elise 111S, it;s ECU and AS5 module. the rest is plug-and-play.

Also what is a AS5 module?

[Scuffers]

I don't know if the engine loom from the ZR is the same, it was the one from the MGF Lotus used.

you need the same vintage ECU and the matching AS5 unit (Rover immobiliser) to make it all work (or pay somebody with the Rover scan tool to re-programme your old one to work with the new ECU)

[dom180]

Esprit said:

That's one way of doing it, but beware, the wiring to convert to a VVC is a little tricky. Also if you've got an early car you'll need a later engine-cover to clear the taller VVC head.

Another alternative is to whip your head off, send it to Dave Andrews (DVAPower) and get a K13 upgrade... should yield a genuine 150+bhp and will work with your stock bottom end

Assume a K13 kit would prevent or be a good fix for head gasket failure? - On a 50,000 mile engine would there be any issues with fitting the kit or would it be worth investing in any additional work while the engine is apart?

[TIPPER]

Best talk to Dave Andrews re the fitting of the kit.

[Incredible Sulk]

dom180 said:

Esprit said:

That's one way of doing it, but beware, the wiring to convert to a VVC is a little tricky. Also if you've got an early car you'll need a later engine-cover to clear the taller VVC head.

Another alternative is to whip your head off, send it to Dave Andrews (DVAPower) and get a K13 upgrade... should yield a genuine 150+bhp and will work with your stock bottom end

Assume a K13 kit would prevent or be a good fix for head gasket failure? - On a 50,000 mile engine would there be any issues with fitting the kit or would it be worth investing in any additional work while the engine is apart?

As Tipper said, have a chat with Dave. One thing that Dave will do with the head off is to sort the liner heights (if they need sorting). Low liner heights seem to be one of the factors implicated in HGF. You can also get a PRRT fitted whilst the head is off (if you haven't already got one), which will further reduce the risk of HGF. Fitting the PRRT kit is a pain with the head on, but a doddle if the head is off, so it makes sense to get it done whilst the engine is in bits.

[dom180]

Incredible Sulk said:

dom180 said:

Esprit said:

That's one way of doing it, but beware, the wiring to convert to a VVC is a little tricky. Also if you've got an early car you'll need a later engine-cover to clear the taller VVC head.

Another alternative is to whip your head off, send it to Dave Andrews (DVAPower) and get a K13 upgrade... should yield a genuine 150+bhp and will work with your stock bottom end

Assume a K13 kit would prevent or be a good fix for head gasket failure? - On a 50,000 mile engine would there be any issues with fitting the kit or would it be worth investing in any additional work while the engine is apart?

As Tipper said, have a chat with Dave. One thing that Dave will do with the head off is to sort the liner heights (if they need sorting). Low liner heights seem to be one of the factors implicated in HGF. You can also get a PRRT fitted whilst the head is off (if you haven't already got one), which will further reduce the risk of HGF. Fitting the PRRT kit is a pain with the head on, but a doddle if the head is off, so it makes sense to get it done whilst the engine is in bits.

Ok, cheers guys.

[jondude]

Help me out, recommend me an engine upgrade!

I do not track my car. S1 K series, 1998.

I would like very good and powerful 1st/2nd gear acceleration, just for when I need to get away at the lights quickly. I use many roads where 2 lanes become 1 from lights, and it gets tiring as everybody wants to race you....I'd like to get out of there with ease - with my eyes closed, if you like!

2) Would then like the same torque and power in the lower to mid range, as I spend most of my time between 40-70 mph on backroads and busy dual carriageways, where I'd love masses of easy power to again blast away and get an overtake done quickly and powerfully.

What engine (or K series mod) would do that best?

[Spunagain]

A good mod IMHO for not loosing torque is a flowed and ported head. Dave Andrews does them as does Sabre heads.

Sportomotive will do it all for you... they did mine at 58k miles with a Sabere exchang head and it's still going strong at 104k miles.

You should also deflash the inlet manifold and add a tubular exhaust at the same time. that and a good air filter gets me 145hp (146ftlbs od torque) and gains thoughout the rv range, with no loss of economy. Apparently it varies from car to car but some with thes set up see more than 150hp.

HTH

Spunagain

[Boggy]

Guys,

I know it's more money but surely the best option would be to fit the Honda engine? load's of fitting bit's off the shelf and theirs load's of advice on the forum's

Boggy

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-CIVIC-TYPE-R-2-0-ENGIN...

[Boggy]

http://hondaelise.com/

Boggy

[Scuffers]

Spunagain said:

A good mod IMHO for not loosing torque is a flowed and ported head. Dave Andrews does them as does Sabre heads.

Sportomotive will do it all for you... they did mine at 58k miles with a Sabere exchang head and it's still going strong at 104k miles.

You should also deflash the inlet manifold and add a tubular exhaust at the same time. that and a good air filter gets me 145hp (146ftlbs od torque) and gains thoughout the rv range, with no loss of economy. Apparently it varies from car to car but some with thes set up see more than 150hp.

HTH

Spunagain

porting the head does not gain you torque, what it does it extend the ability of the engine to breath at higher speeds/loads.

if you want more torque, then you need to work on the exhaust manifold etc, (and no, that does not mean much bigger).

[Spunagain]

Hi Scuffers


[/quote]
porting the head does not gain you torque, what it does it extend the ability of the engine to breath at higher speeds/loads.

if you want more torque, then you need to work on the exhaust manifold etc, (and no, that does not mean much bigger).
[/quote]

True but as I said head work does not lose torque (AFAIK). I guess what I was driving at (and not doing it very well) was that head work gives gains throughout the rev range. What I should have perhaps added was that fitting hotter cams while getting more power high up will to some extent reduce the low down torque and affect driveability.

My view is that hotter cams are great for a track biassed car but for a road car drivability is more important to me and I do way more road miles than track miles so I went the head and manifold route and have been very happy. No more mods for 40k miles!


For the OP I would recommend getting some rides (and if you can blag it) test drives in some modded cars so you know what you are getting for your money.

Tuning your car is a personal thing and one mans screamer is another mand screaming nightmare. (I am torque biased as I still miss the Chimeara!)
Regards
Spunagain

[S Works]

jondude said:

Help me out, recommend me an engine upgrade!

I do not track my car. S1 K series, 1998.

I would like very good and powerful 1st/2nd gear acceleration, just for when I need to get away at the lights quickly. I use many roads where 2 lanes become 1 from lights, and it gets tiring as everybody wants to race you....I'd like to get out of there with ease - with my eyes closed, if you like!

2) Would then like the same torque and power in the lower to mid range, as I spend most of my time between 40-70 mph on backroads and busy dual carriageways, where I'd love masses of easy power to again blast away and get an overtake done quickly and powerfully.

What engine (or K series mod) would do that best?

Get a close ratio box to aid accelleration, and then talk to DVA about a new manifold and some mild engine work to give you ~150bhp and more torque. I wouldn't advise blowing ten grand plus on a Honda conversion for what you want. Unless you've money to burn of course, in which case, do it. They're mental.