All New Elise - 2010 ?

[Geneve]

According to Autocar, "Lotus are beavering away on the Elise replacement, due later in 2010".

However, it says that there may be an announcement later this month.

Always liked the Elise, had one of the very first S1s, which I ran for a year and sold for a profit

Anyone know where Lotus will be going with the next model? Back to basics I hope?

[TIPPER]

There's been a lot of speculation on this. I think even dealers were surprised when the S2 was announced although there's a new man in charge now so who knows?
What will it be like? Dunno but I wouldn't be surprised to see a modular type chassis based around VVA due to the large numbers of cars being written off with relatively minor chassis damage. Unfortunately to keep it stiff means it may get heavier - hope not.
I'm sure they'll keep a base model like the S at around the £25k mark with the range topping at towards £40k and Exiges a bit more.
Just me guessing BTW.

[The Bandit]

Heard a rumour it'll be powered by a 1.6 Toyota unit

[dom180]

I'd be happy with an incremental update over the S2 taking into account 10 years of chassis development/know how - I suppose Honda engines are not realistic! - Slighly more refinement (only slightly!), same dimensions, easier ingress/egress and an Evora like ride quality, with maybe a 2-11 spin-off model but this time with a windscreen and roof for the more committed owner....

Hopefully the adoption of traction/stability control will allow Lotus to offer a slightly more aggressive, all electronics switched off setup rather than a more compromised wet/dry road configuration....

[simonrockman]

I would have thought there would be more money for them in more Evoras.

Simon

[TIPPER]

dom180 said:

Hopefully the adoption of traction/stability control will allow Lotus to offer a slightly more aggressive, all electronics switched off setup rather than a more compromised wet/dry road configuration....

Not sure I understand that - you can get any Elise set up to behave how you want.

[Redlake27]

I swapped my Elise 135 for a Europa a couple of years ago. The lower sills (although still high!) of the Europa would be welcome on a new Elise. I'm sure the Elise is getting tighter....... (which has nothing to do with the fact I'm 10kgs heavier than when I first owned one, of course.....)

[dom180]

TIPPER said:

dom180 said:

Hopefully the adoption of traction/stability control will allow Lotus to offer a slightly more aggressive, all electronics switched off setup rather than a more compromised wet/dry road configuration....

Not sure I understand that - you can get any Elise set up to behave how you want.

Agree you can tweak the car/suspension, but unless you do it yourself, it costs money... Lotus set the S2 up to be fairly conservative (and I'm not disagreeing with their decision or with the compromise that they reached), but with traction and stability control fitted, Lotus could put a more aggressive dry setup on it than they could have got away with, as they needed to keep the car safe in the wet on the road for the average or below average driver.

Edited by dom180 on Saturday 5th December 10:07

[kambites]

dom180 said:

I'd be happy with an incremental update over the S2 taking into account 10 years of chassis development/know how - I suppose Honda engines are not realistic! - Slighly more refinement (only slightly!), same dimensions, easier ingress/egress and an Evora like ride quality, with maybe a 2-11 spin-off model but this time with a windscreen and roof for the more committed owner....

Why not just buy an Evora? I think they should be taking the Elise away from the Evora, not closer to it.

I hope we'll see the car go back to basics a bit, ditching the brake servo (and ABS), air bags, etc. However, I don't think that's likely (I'm not even sure it would be legal?). I suspect we'll see the car get even heavier and more powerful and further from its original ethos. I think there's a very real chance that the days of the sub-tonne road-biased Elise will be over when they release the S3. I just hope I'm wrong.

Or maybe Lotus should take the Elise up market a bit and introduce another, cheaper, simpler model below it. That's what most manufacturers seem to do. Sell the Elise on its name to all the city bankers who don't really care about handling but want the image and introduce another, lower volume, back-to-basics type car for us which can sneak under all the legislation problems because of its volumes.

I suspect not though.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 5th December 10:15

[dom180]

kambites said:

dom180 said:

I'd be happy with an incremental update over the S2 taking into account 10 years of chassis development/know how - I suppose Honda engines are not realistic! - Slighly more refinement (only slightly!), same dimensions, easier ingress/egress and an Evora like ride quality, with maybe a 2-11 spin-off model but this time with a windscreen and roof for the more committed owner....

Why not just buy an Evora? I think they should be taking the Elise away from the Evora, not closer to it.

I hope we'll see the car go back to basics a bit, ditching the brake servo (and ABS), air bags, etc. However, I don't think that's likely (I'm not even sure it would be legal?). I suspect we'll see the car get even heavier and more powerful and further from its original ethos. I think there's a very real chance that the days of the sub-tonne road-biased Elise will be over when they release the S3. I just hope I'm wrong.

Or maybe Lotus should take the Elise up market a bit and introduce another, cheaper, simpler model below it. That's what most manufacturers seem to do. Sell the Elise on its name to all the city bankers who don't really care about handling but want the image and introduce another, lower volume, back-to-basics type car for us which can sneak under all the legislation problems because of its volumes.

I suspect not though.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 5th December 10:15

The Evora costs a lot more than the Elise though - not many buyers can afford a new Evora....

I don't think a back to basics model is the way for Lotus to gain volume and profit though - there are maybe 600 or so (existing s1 owners) enthusiasts who say they want a hardcore S1 type model but many thousands more who actually bought the more refined S2 - don't forget the majority of Toyota models had a touring pack spec-ed by the first owner. In marketing don't ask who'll buy one (I'll take a hardcore back to basics one when asked at no cost to me!), observe who actually bought one.....! And note, the S2 stayed in production a long time - it was very successful - an incremental update is all that is required imho.

Lotus can cater for the hardcore S1 market by revising their 2-11 slightly.

Edited by dom180 on Saturday 5th December 10:35

[kambites]

You're probably right about what's best for Lotus' sales but the market already has one Porsche, I can't help but feel that it doesn't need another one.

I'm not particularly saying that Lotus shouldn't try to build a Boxster; I'm just saying they should also continue building an Elise.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 5th December 10:42

[dom180]

kambites said:

You're probably right about what's best for Lotus' sales but the market already has one Porsche, I can't help but feel that it doesn't need another one.

I'm not particularly saying that Lotus shouldn't try to build a Boxster; I'm just saying they should also continue building an Elise.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 5th December 10:42

Don't get me wrong - I want a slightly more refined S2 (as in the Europa!), not a Boxster (and hopefully a sub Boxster price tag too!)

Keep the weight gain to a mimimum but bring forward the dynamics 10 years. I drove an Evora and its ride was astonishingly good in comparison to my Elise over some fairly demanding roads - I'm sure the new Elise will be a cracker.

[kambites]

Each to his own I suppose. I already prefer the earlier S2s to later ones. If they go further that way, I wont be buying another Lotus. Having said that, I have no reason to want to sell mine, so I doubt Lotus really care what I think.

[Scuffers]

personally, I think the Elise should go back to basics....

then make the Exige something *more* - as opposed to a re-styled Elise (that we have now)

more interestingly, what are they going to do for an engine now the 2ZZ is out of production....

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

personally, I think the Elise should go back to basics....

then make the Exige something *more* - as opposed to a re-styled Elise (that we have now)

more interestingly, what are they going to do for an engine now the 2ZZ is out of production....

NAC N-series?

[LivinLaVidaLotus]

Slightly smaller FI unit?

[kambites]

LivinLaVidaLotus said:

Slightly smaller FI unit?

I think a Turbo+SC I3 would be rather nice.

Sadly, no-one makes one, as far as I know.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 5th December 20:40

[bordseye]

Whatever the eventual car looks like , you can be sure:

1/ there will be a sting of posts on here saying it looks cr*p
2/ there will be even more posts saying it's too heavy whatever it weighs.
3/ there will be a lot of posts saying it's too expensive.

Posters are unrealistic. The "back to basics" bit is impossible for both legal and marketing reasons - lotus need to have much wider appeal than a Caterham type approach would yield. Weight is also a problem - grp is heavy compared to steel monocoque and things like airbags and crush cells can't be missed out.

[rhinochopig]

A car that will fit us lankies. That'll do me.

[aussiebeano]

bordseye said:

Whatever the eventual car looks like , you can be sure:

1/ there will be a sting of posts on here saying it looks cr*p
2/ there will be even more posts saying it's too heavy whatever it weighs.
etc...

there will also be the usual posts from those who say they have the inside scoop, have seen it in the flesh, that it looks great, but then smugly say that they can't tell us anymore. Hey - I've got a secret but can't tell you...