Removable Steering Wheel - Exige S - Airbag???
Discussion
I'm looking for a replacement Exige S, asap.
One trick I've had on a couple of Lotuses in the past (including my old Exige) was the Snap-Off steering wheel boss kit, allowing me to have a nice suede Sparco wheel (universally liked by anyone who tried it) and giving me serious peace of mind in terms of security.
I have no garage and no off-street parking, the car lives either on my street or (mainly) in the public car park near my gaff. The public car park has cameras and the main camera operator is a decent chap and a petrolhead to boot (and lives in my street, and knows me). However it's easy to break into a Lotus and it will always be a target.
You can't prevent the professional thief. However the lack of a steering wheel (always left parked up without wheel attached) easily prevents opportunist thefts and joyriders. So that's good enough for me, and makes me feel good.
My last Exige was a 2006 car and the standard steering wheel had no airbag. I removed the wheel and put on a Snap-Off kit myself. However the only cars on the market at the moment that I'm interested in seem to be newer, with the post-2006 dash and airbagged steering wheel.
It's a horrible wheel anyway (I'm used to it, as it appears to be the same as the one in my old VX220 Turbo) and I'd like to replace it with a Snap-Off kit.
Initial queries to official dealers came back with 'hmmm, don't think you can remove the airbagged wheel' - but after seeing a 2008 car for sale at B&C (sadly already sold when I called to stick a deposit down) which already had a removable steering wheel attached, and I presume as a 2008 car must have had an airbag, I'm now confused.
Removable steering wheel is a bit of a deal breaker for me because I *really* want it for the peace of mind and convenience, along with comfort. I'm not bothered about an airbag in the car because I'm making sure I'm getting slotted seats this time and harnesses.
Anyone know *for sure* what the deal is here? Presumably anything's possible in the sense that I can remove the airbag wheel, remove the explosive, tape up the cabling and/or remove the fuse to prevent keeping the dashboard warning light on - but I'm wary of insurance issues. I declare the removable steering wheel to insurers as an anti-theft device, like a Krooklok or one of the big wheel-covering locks. But if in doing so, I remove OEM standard-fit airbag - would this be a problem?
Or are there enough variations of model year cars with old and new style dashes (and therefore airbag and non-airbag steering wheels) that I could remove the airbag, remove the drive electronics, and nobody would be the wiser including an insurance loss assessor who wanted to pick over the thing with a fine-tooth comb? (this answer came back when I was worried about using Pagid brake pads on the road, which aren't technically road-legal and would be a prime insurance problem - but how could they tell short of chemically analysing the pad compound, was the reply - I think Bogie came up with that one IIRC, and it's a good point).
If it's a 'just do it, remove the airbag wiring and claim Lotus never put one in from the factory' then it means my prospective car search becomes a lot easier. Otherwise, I'm looking for a 2006 car because that's when they incorporated a bunch of other improvements that I actually want...
Argh.
One trick I've had on a couple of Lotuses in the past (including my old Exige) was the Snap-Off steering wheel boss kit, allowing me to have a nice suede Sparco wheel (universally liked by anyone who tried it) and giving me serious peace of mind in terms of security.
I have no garage and no off-street parking, the car lives either on my street or (mainly) in the public car park near my gaff. The public car park has cameras and the main camera operator is a decent chap and a petrolhead to boot (and lives in my street, and knows me). However it's easy to break into a Lotus and it will always be a target.
You can't prevent the professional thief. However the lack of a steering wheel (always left parked up without wheel attached) easily prevents opportunist thefts and joyriders. So that's good enough for me, and makes me feel good.
My last Exige was a 2006 car and the standard steering wheel had no airbag. I removed the wheel and put on a Snap-Off kit myself. However the only cars on the market at the moment that I'm interested in seem to be newer, with the post-2006 dash and airbagged steering wheel.
It's a horrible wheel anyway (I'm used to it, as it appears to be the same as the one in my old VX220 Turbo) and I'd like to replace it with a Snap-Off kit.
Initial queries to official dealers came back with 'hmmm, don't think you can remove the airbagged wheel' - but after seeing a 2008 car for sale at B&C (sadly already sold when I called to stick a deposit down) which already had a removable steering wheel attached, and I presume as a 2008 car must have had an airbag, I'm now confused.
Removable steering wheel is a bit of a deal breaker for me because I *really* want it for the peace of mind and convenience, along with comfort. I'm not bothered about an airbag in the car because I'm making sure I'm getting slotted seats this time and harnesses.
Anyone know *for sure* what the deal is here? Presumably anything's possible in the sense that I can remove the airbag wheel, remove the explosive, tape up the cabling and/or remove the fuse to prevent keeping the dashboard warning light on - but I'm wary of insurance issues. I declare the removable steering wheel to insurers as an anti-theft device, like a Krooklok or one of the big wheel-covering locks. But if in doing so, I remove OEM standard-fit airbag - would this be a problem?
Or are there enough variations of model year cars with old and new style dashes (and therefore airbag and non-airbag steering wheels) that I could remove the airbag, remove the drive electronics, and nobody would be the wiser including an insurance loss assessor who wanted to pick over the thing with a fine-tooth comb? (this answer came back when I was worried about using Pagid brake pads on the road, which aren't technically road-legal and would be a prime insurance problem - but how could they tell short of chemically analysing the pad compound, was the reply - I think Bogie came up with that one IIRC, and it's a good point).
If it's a 'just do it, remove the airbag wiring and claim Lotus never put one in from the factory' then it means my prospective car search becomes a lot easier. Otherwise, I'm looking for a 2006 car because that's when they incorporated a bunch of other improvements that I actually want...
Argh.
I'd be amazed if the airbag wasn't an integral part of the wheel, and removing the thing solves the problem of airbag/charge etc. (all but the sensors and dash lights). Call Lotus perhaps and speak to someone there to get the party line? Might be worth investigating if removal creates any warranty issues too.
Insurance effect? No idea. Can't imagine it would invalidate anything other than potential personal injury cover. Certainly doesn't make the car any more or less safe (not like you can drive off without a steering wheel attached, is it?). But, I suppose you are giving companies an opportunity to argue the toss, not do cover, or to charge more for what is effectively a zero-effect change.
As for the security aspect, tbh I really don't think it's worth it. Lotus' rarely get nicked, and when they do it's generally only for joyrides because they're not worth breaking or flogging on the dodgy market because the community is so tight-knit.
Insurance effect? No idea. Can't imagine it would invalidate anything other than potential personal injury cover. Certainly doesn't make the car any more or less safe (not like you can drive off without a steering wheel attached, is it?). But, I suppose you are giving companies an opportunity to argue the toss, not do cover, or to charge more for what is effectively a zero-effect change.
As for the security aspect, tbh I really don't think it's worth it. Lotus' rarely get nicked, and when they do it's generally only for joyrides because they're not worth breaking or flogging on the dodgy market because the community is so tight-knit.
The Bandit said:
You could always try and find an 06/07MY car without Super Touring(hence no airbagged wheel)?
Sure i remembered reading(somewhere)that removing the airbag will void your insurance if it was fitted OEM...
It will be ok as long as you declare it and insurance company are happy with the modification - people remove them for track use and get road cover for their track cars. (Air bags not included in the MOT but it might affect/narrow resale if someone twigs that an airbag should have been fitted.)Sure i remembered reading(somewhere)that removing the airbag will void your insurance if it was fitted OEM...
(Edit: as far as an Elise/Exige is concerned there may be complications with the passenger airbag - removing one airbag might give issues for the remaining one which may/may not require further work/removal!)
Edited by dom180 on Sunday 6th December 23:05
Maybe we can simplify this a little. If your alarmed/immobilised car is parked in a floodlit carpark with security cameras manned by a friend then it is not going to be stolen by a local oik who wants to race the police around the local council estate. It's going to be stolen by someone who knows what they are doing. Such a person would surely have the common sense to work out which detachable wheel you have, go and buy one and use it to steal your car after they have bipassed all the other security. I don't know if detachable wheels are like locking wheel nuts in that each wheel is different, but even if they aren't it seems to me that you have better security than if you parked on a driveway or arguably in a garage. With all the airbag complications I would kick the detachable wheel idea into touch and focus on getting the car you want. In fact, the total cost of a all the work would probably take you a big chunk of the way towards a full respray in the most in-ya-face colour you can find. That would make your hunt for a car a little easier, would it not?
Do post back if you get a definitive answer on this. I can't really drive an Elise/Exige properly unless it has quite a sizeable steering wheel spacer fitted, so it's a concern for me if I ever update to a newer car with an airbag (unless the S3 has adjustment in it...). I was assuming that Lotus would be able to do it for me if a sale rested on it 
The airbag is connected to the loom of the car via some sort of reel that winds up and down when the wheel is turned. it's not like the horn-button that is just hooked-up via copper pins moveing over a copper ring...
I do not think it will be technically possible to make it detachable without you plugging in a wire to a socket.
BUT do the cup elises have airbags? Get one of those... Otherwise just have a lotus dealer remove it, and inform your insurance company.
I do not think it will be technically possible to make it detachable without you plugging in a wire to a socket.
BUT do the cup elises have airbags? Get one of those... Otherwise just have a lotus dealer remove it, and inform your insurance company.
Boggy said:
Nope,
Lotus don't recommend you tamper with the Airbag steering wheel,
They will not even fit a replacement other than another airbag type steering wheel, in short it’s the only steering wheel your meant to have fitted, I’m sure there will be a clause in Insurance as well
Boggy
So if you don't fit then you're stuffed basically. Nice!Lotus don't recommend you tamper with the Airbag steering wheel,
They will not even fit a replacement other than another airbag type steering wheel, in short it’s the only steering wheel your meant to have fitted, I’m sure there will be a clause in Insurance as well
Boggy
Can you not still order a new Elise or Exige without an airbag?
RobM77 said:
Boggy said:
Nope,
Lotus don't recommend you tamper with the Airbag steering wheel,
They will not even fit a replacement other than another airbag type steering wheel, in short it’s the only steering wheel your meant to have fitted, I’m sure there will be a clause in Insurance as well
Boggy
So if you don't fit then you're stuffed basically. Nice!Lotus don't recommend you tamper with the Airbag steering wheel,
They will not even fit a replacement other than another airbag type steering wheel, in short it’s the only steering wheel your meant to have fitted, I’m sure there will be a clause in Insurance as well
Boggy
Can you not still order a new Elise or Exige without an airbag?
I have seen many adverts for 08 cars with the new dash and a removable wheel (B+C I know had a few), so dealers do it.
Insurance - just ring up and add it as a mod, done it before on other cars in the past. It raises insurance a bit (will did on an Evo and Focus RS). Even Admiral let you do this, and they seem to class cleaning your car as a performance enhancing feature.
Of just get a pre 08MY car, and you won't have to worry about the fugly dash either
SonicHedgeHog said:
Maybe we can simplify this a little. If your alarmed/immobilised car is parked in a floodlit carpark with security cameras manned by a friend then it is not going to be stolen by a local oik who wants to race the police around the local council estate. It's going to be stolen by someone who knows what they are doing. Such a person would surely have the common sense to work out which detachable wheel you have, go and buy one and use it to steal your car after they have bipassed all the other security. I don't know if detachable wheels are like locking wheel nuts in that each wheel is different, but even if they aren't it seems to me that you have better security than if you parked on a driveway or arguably in a garage. With all the airbag complications I would kick the detachable wheel idea into touch and focus on getting the car you want. In fact, the total cost of a all the work would probably take you a big chunk of the way towards a full respray in the most in-ya-face colour you can find. That would make your hunt for a car a little easier, would it not?
Hmmm. That's a good point. I *do* really like that removable steering wheel though. The opportunist joyride type is exactly the type I'd like to stop... easy to break into a Lotus, most pikeys can probably defeat the standard immobiliser and then it doesn't matter that the council surveillance will have spotted them doing it, and doesn't matter that if my mate is on duty then he'll probably alert the cops rapido - the pikeys will have a laugh in the car before the police try to catch them. I'd also say that unless it's winter and on cut slicks (at the risk of igniting that argument again, heh), with a modicum of driving skill they'd make it pretty tricky for the police to catch them - Exiges are small, fast, and unless the surface is slippery then they'll outcorner any cop too... in short the 'joyride' would last long enough to either wreck the car or for them to stack it due to lack of driving skill.Without a steering wheel, there's no opportunity for joyride. A pro thief will not be defeatable, and as pointed out the Lotus market isn't big on steal-to-order either so it's really the pikeys I'm trying to keep completely honest.
True story - I've had two teenagers, one pushing a Tesco trolley, the other sitting in the trolley, both pissed and racing round the car park, stop and stare at my car, poking at the window. I was walking towards it, they hadn't seen me. I opened the car using the remote which made them jump, having sized them up as not a challenge if things got troublesome. The least-pissed one (pushing the trolley) said 'you lucky b
d' - I said 'I worked bloody hard for it, but yeah it's great fun' and grinned, getting a meek smile back. The most-pissed one (in the trolley) slurred 'I'd like to nick that' - and before I had chance to give him the eye and say 'best not touch my car, eh', his mate gave him a slap and said 'you stupid c*nt - can't you see it hasn't got a steering wheel' - I grinned and showed the drunk one the wheel (which I was obviously holding, since I was about to go out for a drive in the car). He slurred 'I bet I could drive without the wheel - just use some mole grips' - to which his mate let go a bunch of expletives, and they were still arguing about whether they could nick the car without a steering wheel when I'd got in, bolted it on, started up, blipped the throttle for them a few times, shouted 'cheers' to the less-pissed chap and driven off...I guess you technically *could* drive it some distance with a couple of mole grips and some ingenuity, but certainly not at speed - it'd have to be very careful stuff with no tight turns, just a way to get somewhere safe to either hack a wheel on or off. In other words - not an opportunist joyride.
That said, I understand your point entirely. Doing the wheel on my 2006 car cost me around £400 all in. How much does a full respray in some lairy colour cost? I thought full, proper, resprays cost more than £5,000???
Or, as it's looking more and more remote that I'm going to get a car to the spec I actually want at a price that doesn't involve me saying 'sod it' and chucking more assets than necessary out to get a toy... do I just wait for B&C to have one of theirs for sale? They definitely *did* have a 2008 car with a removable steering wheel, IIRC...
MrP80 said:
RobM77 said:
Boggy said:
Nope,
Lotus don't recommend you tamper with the Airbag steering wheel,
They will not even fit a replacement other than another airbag type steering wheel, in short it’s the only steering wheel your meant to have fitted, I’m sure there will be a clause in Insurance as well
Boggy
So if you don't fit then you're stuffed basically. Nice!Lotus don't recommend you tamper with the Airbag steering wheel,
They will not even fit a replacement other than another airbag type steering wheel, in short it’s the only steering wheel your meant to have fitted, I’m sure there will be a clause in Insurance as well
Boggy
Can you not still order a new Elise or Exige without an airbag?
I have seen many adverts for 08 cars with the new dash and a removable wheel (B+C I know had a few), so dealers do it.
Insurance - just ring up and add it as a mod, done it before on other cars in the past. It raises insurance a bit (will did on an Evo and Focus RS). Even Admiral let you do this, and they seem to class cleaning your car as a performance enhancing feature.
Of just get a pre 08MY car, and you won't have to worry about the fugly dash either
If Lotus are reading this, then all I want is to be able to fit into my favourite car!
Provided there's some method where I can spend a reasonable amount of money to push the pedals further away or bring the wheel closer, then I'm happy We pushed B&C hard on this recently when we bought a JC Elise and they were having none of it - they wouldn't even entertain the idea of removing an airbagged wheel. And I know Scott the then sales manager very well as a good friend and he still wouldn't have it. I reckon the only way round it is to get an independent to fit it aftermarket. And be prepared to refit the original come MOT time. Every MOT time.
Stephanie Plum said:
We pushed B&C hard on this recently when we bought a JC Elise and they were having none of it - they wouldn't even entertain the idea of removing an airbagged wheel. And I know Scott the then sales manager very well as a good friend and he still wouldn't have it. I reckon the only way round it is to get an independent to fit it aftermarket. And be prepared to refit the original come MOT time. Every MOT time.
Hmmm, so he probably knew you'd buy it anyway then! The MOT test doesn't take airbags into account as they are not specifically required by legislation.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/general-advic...
Edit: I'm not recommending anyone removes their airbag, just pointing out what I believe the rules to be - for the avoidance of doubt, the OP (or anyone else) should get in touch with Vosa and confirm to their own satisfaction, what the rules on airbags are or may be in the near future. And as stated previously, check with their insurance company.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/contactus/contactus.htm
Edited by dom180 on Monday 7th December 23:17
Given the way things are going with airbags and legislation, I think that the new S3 Elise and Exige simply must have an adjustable steering column or pedals; or of course if that's really not possible be designed with a good mean average position in the first place, instead of the rather extreme 1970s Ferrari offering we have now.
Stephanie Plum said:
We pushed B&C hard on this recently when we bought a JC Elise and they were having none of it - they wouldn't even entertain the idea of removing an airbagged wheel. And I know Scott the then sales manager very well as a good friend and he still wouldn't have it. I reckon the only way round it is to get an independent to fit it aftermarket. And be prepared to refit the original come MOT time. Every MOT time.
Yup, that's what I foundBoggy
Cyberface, the point I was making (badly) was that the cost of removing an airbagged wheel will be much higher than removing a non-airbagged one. Add to that the premium that you will almost certainly pay for one of the exclusive (and expensive) oranges or greens and you'll be in the ball park of a complete respray. The ease of finding the right car when colour is irrelevant because you're going to respray has, for me, substantial financial value. So much so in fact that the total cost of the two options is as close as makes no difference. I've also always wanted to have a car fully resprayed (just because it's fun) so I am probably biased.
SonicHedgeHog said:
Cyberface, the point I was making (badly) was that the cost of removing an airbagged wheel will be much higher than removing a non-airbagged one. Add to that the premium that you will almost certainly pay for one of the exclusive (and expensive) oranges or greens and you'll be in the ball park of a complete respray. The ease of finding the right car when colour is irrelevant because you're going to respray has, for me, substantial financial value. So much so in fact that the total cost of the two options is as close as makes no difference. I've also always wanted to have a car fully resprayed (just because it's fun) so I am probably biased.
So, then, hodgeheg - how much does it cost to do a full respray to a top standard, using one of those (presumably expensive) lairy paints?I'm talking about the lairy yellow, orange, green - not some Max Power flip paint or 'special effect' paint - just a nice bright colour...
What are the insurance / V5 / other downsides to changing the colour of a car as well? Presumably resale takes a big hit?
I'm interested - tell me more
For now I'll ignore the incorrect spelling of my name. Just be aware I've got my eye on you, sunshine.
Back to your question. A full respray in metalic blue of a Griffith from a proper bodyshop in Surrey was going to cost £2,000. On the basis of that I would guess a same colour respray of an Exige would be about the same. I don't know what it would cost to do a proper job with a different colour, but given you're not interested in 'Max Power' colours I would guess you're looking at about £3,500. Probably not that much less than all your steering wheel hassle plus the premium you would have to pay for a lairy coloured Exige.
I don't see a problem with V5s or insurance or anything like that. This idea is either going to appeal or it isn't. Personally, I'd prefer something unique that I had a bit of fun creating. Some of the 911 GT3 colours would look terrific on an Exige.
Back to your question. A full respray in metalic blue of a Griffith from a proper bodyshop in Surrey was going to cost £2,000. On the basis of that I would guess a same colour respray of an Exige would be about the same. I don't know what it would cost to do a proper job with a different colour, but given you're not interested in 'Max Power' colours I would guess you're looking at about £3,500. Probably not that much less than all your steering wheel hassle plus the premium you would have to pay for a lairy coloured Exige.
I don't see a problem with V5s or insurance or anything like that. This idea is either going to appeal or it isn't. Personally, I'd prefer something unique that I had a bit of fun creating. Some of the 911 GT3 colours would look terrific on an Exige.
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