Elise 111r or 111s help please

[FEE 50]

Hi Chaps

I’m currently a TVR T350 owner and wanting to get myself an Elise 111r or 111s.
Don’t want to spend more than about 17k and looking for a mint 56ish onwards with about 15/20k on the clock.

I’ve driven neither yet, but to be honest from what I’ve been told I’m going to like them.
Questions:

1. Can I drive them as an everyday car, realistically not practically? I’m far from practical!
The tvr an absolute stunning car to drive for pleasure, but I wouldnt want to have to use it as an everyday car.

2. What are they like on fuel when just tickling arund town etc.
3. Anything quite common (faults wise) to watch out for when buying
4. Just how much faster / better is the 111r then the 111s? - To be honest I wont be driving the life out of it and think that maybe the extra cost of the 111r might not actually be worth it. I’d love to get your guys opinions on which one. Service intervals do seem a pro on the 111r
5. Obviously the TVR sounds like it was engineered by the devil! And the sound will be greatly missed. What exhaust is the recommended one to go for. I still want that nasty sound without too much cabin noise, if at all possible.

6. Anyone know of a mint black (pref with hardtop) 111r or 111s soon to be available for sale.

Cheers
Dom

Edited by FEE 50 on Thursday 17th December 17:05

Edited by FEE 50 on Thursday 17th December 17:05

[Boggy]

FEE 50 said:

Hi Chaps

I’m currently a TVR T350 owner and wanting to get myself an Elise 111r or 111s.
Don’t want to spend more than about 17k and looking for a mint 56ish onwards with about 15/20k on the clock.

I’ve driven neither yet, but to be honest from what I’ve been told I’m going to like them.
Questions:

1. Can I drive them as an everyday car, realistically not practically? I’m far from practical!
The tvr an absolute stunning car to drive for pleasure, but I wouldnt want to have to use it as an everyday car.

2. What are they like on fuel when just tickling arund town etc.
3. Anything quite common (faults wise) to watch out for when buying
4. Just how much faster / better is the 111r then the 111s? - To be honest I wont be driving the life out of it and think that maybe the extra cost of the 111r might not actually be worth it. I’d love to get your guys opinions on which one. Service intervals do seem a pro on the 111r
5. Obviously the TVR sounds like it was engineered by the devil! And the sound will be greatly missed. What exhaust is the recommended one to go for. I still want that nasty sound without too much cabin noise, if at all possible.

6. Anyone know of a mint black (pref with hardtop) 111r or 111s soon to be available for sale.

Cheers
Dom

Edited by FEE 50 on Thursday 17th December 17:05

Edited by FEE 50 on Thursday 17th December 17:05

1. Yes
2. Both around 35 mgp - 42 mpg depending on how you drive it
3. 111S HGF, R not really most Issue's have been resolved through R&D
4. Why would you buy a 111S now? you can get a decent R for round about 16.5k ???
5. Yes, load's of choice I'd go for either Lotus Sport stage 2 or 2Bular
6. Check classifieds on here

Boggy

[kambites]

I found, with my driving style, that I got about 40mpg from the 111S and 36 from the 111R on similar trips (mostly cross country).

Personally I think the 111S drives better too. Drive both and see which you prefer. The 111S doesn't have a brake servo (or ABS) which I greatly prefer. It's also quite a lot lighter so it feels torquier, despite them having around the same absolute torque figure.



IMHO Elises sound rubbish. Elises with sports exhausts sound loud and rubbish.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 17th December 18:34

[The Bandit]

When you say 56 plate onwards are you talking about the Toyota engined Elise S(111S is Rover powered and only made up to 2005)?

If so,as with all these things,then you need to go and drive them both and see which suits you best.
Some people love the kick in the back at 6k revs of the R,others prefer the torquier better balanced(imo)S.
For £17k you'll get a good spec 06/07 S or a leggier slightly older R,both Toyota lumps are pretty much bulletproof and the later cars on the whole are well put together.

40mpg from either is expected and i know several people who use them as daily drivers without issue.
Good luck with the search and make sure you test drive as many as you can.Buy on condition and history and not on mileage

Shout if you need any more advice.

[kambites]

Ah I missed the date. I don't think they made the 111R or the 111S in 2006? IIRC, the 190bhp Toyota engine was just called the "R" by then, and the lower powered Toyota engined car was always called the "S" rather than the "111S".

[limpsfield]

I have not looked at the classifieds for a couple of weeks but I think you would be pushed to get a 56 111R for your budget.

I have never driven an S - but I do love the kick at 6,000+ from the R.

I have the Lotus stage 2 sports exhaust and think it is a great sound. But the noise would hack me off it was a daily driver.

<editted to add: sorry, I was having a senior moment there. No, it wouldn't at all, unless I was doing 50+ motorway miles>


From an mpg point of view I think it is the cheapest car I have ever owned.

I personally wouldn't bother with a hard top unless it will be regularly somewhere dodgy

I think whichever you buy you can't really go wrong - and depreciation seems to be glacial at the moment.

Good luck with your search - I have no hesitation in recommending an Elise. Everyone should have one.

Edited by limpsfield on Thursday 17th December 21:03

[limpsfield]

Just checked the classifieds - the only sub 17k 2006 R is a CAT D. When I bought mine it was three years old and now I would definitely buy on condition & mileage and not be hung up about the age of the thing.

But you do need a lairy colour...I love this one (not mine)

[The Bandit]

kambites said:

Ah I missed the date. I don't think they made the 111R or the 111S in 2006? IIRC, the 190bhp Toyota engine was just called the "R" by then, and the lower powered Toyota engined car was always called the "S" rather than the "111S".

The 111R(Toyota 190bhp-later renamed R)came out in 04,the Elise S(Toyota 134 bhp)came out in 06

/Just to add to the confusion there was a K series Elise 'S'(120bhp?)along with the K series 111S(156bhp)

[kambites]

The Bandit said:

kambites said:

Ah I missed the date. I don't think they made the 111R or the 111S in 2006? IIRC, the 190bhp Toyota engine was just called the "R" by then, and the lower powered Toyota engined car was always called the "S" rather than the "111S".

The 111R(Toyota 190bhp-later renamed R)came out in 04,the Elise S(Toyota 134 bhp)came out in 06

/Just to add to the confusion there was a K series Elise 'S'(120bhp?)along with the K series 111S(156bhp)

Yes but when did the 111R become the R?

[The Bandit]

kambites said:

The Bandit said:

kambites said:

Ah I missed the date. I don't think they made the 111R or the 111S in 2006? IIRC, the 190bhp Toyota engine was just called the "R" by then, and the lower powered Toyota engined car was always called the "S" rather than the "111S".

The 111R(Toyota 190bhp-later renamed R)came out in 04,the Elise S(Toyota 134 bhp)came out in 06

/Just to add to the confusion there was a K series Elise 'S'(120bhp?)along with the K series 111S(156bhp)

Yes but when did the 111R become the R?

2006/06MY I believe(must get out more)

[Andy G Bmth]

Don't rule out the S over the R - it all depends on what you will be using it for.

I bought a 57 plate black S for £19,200 in April and test drove both S & R back to back. Personally i preferred the S as with my driving style it flowed from bend to bend whereas with the R I found i was driving it around the engine which whilst fun wasn't as much fun and felt slower up to 60 (after 60 no comparison) I don't do any motorway miles on my commute or track it but if i did then i would have got the R.

You won't go wrong with either but just make sure you drive back to back as i had my heart set on a R as it is more powerful.

PS One of the cheapest sports car i have ever owned as was my S1

[FEE 50]

Cheers guys
Looks like I'm just going to have to test drive both and see which I prefer.
What insurance group is the little beast?

Cheers
Dom

[Andy G Bmth]

both are group 20 but not that expensive to insure.

make sure you report back your thoughts once driven

[S Works]

Regarding insurance, talk to a specialist and you'll probably get a much better deal than mainstream. Plus if you ever fancy a trackday, most offer some level of cover too.

[Andy G Bmth]

Good point S Works - i used Richard Egger who actaully quoted me cheaper on a Charge Cooled Honda S2 than they did on a bog standard S. couldn't recommend them highly enough

[mrdemon]

111R with a motorsport remap and a 2ublar.

[kevin ritson]

FEE 50 said:

1. Can I drive them as an everyday car, realistically not practically? I’m far from practical!
The tvr an absolute stunning car to drive for pleasure, but I wouldnt want to have to use it as an everyday car.

2. What are they like on fuel when just tickling arund town etc.
3. Anything quite common (faults wise) to watch out for when buying
4. Just how much faster / better is the 111r then the 111s? - To be honest I wont be driving the life out of it and think that maybe the extra cost of the 111r might not actually be worth it. I’d love to get your guys opinions on which one. Service intervals do seem a pro on the 111r
5. Obviously the TVR sounds like it was engineered by the devil! And the sound will be greatly missed. What exhaust is the recommended one to go for. I still want that nasty sound without too much cabin noise, if at all possible.

6. Anyone know of a mint black (pref with hardtop) 111r or 111s soon to be available for sale.

1. Yep - easily, provided you don't mind forgoing a couple of comforts
2. R - around 30mpg, S - around 40 average, so knock 5mpg off that for town driving. I used to get 200 miles out of a tank (around 32 litres, an R will do the same miles with it's bigger tank of 38 litres)
3. S - HGF, R - oil starvation in heavily tracked cars/worn clutches but the main issues are silly little build faults like failed radiators and heater controls
4. There's not a great deal in it. Get an S with a bit of light head work and it's only 15bhp down plus the torque curve is flatter. You really need to drive both engines, there's a huge difference between them. Services intervals for both are 9,000 miles, the only difference is the S needs a cambelt change every 4 years.
5. Have a listen - there are loads out there and it's all down to preference really. Whatever you get will increase the cabin noise as there's not much in the way of sound insulation but with track day noise regs tightening there are increasingly more 'quieter' sports exhausts on the market.

Edited by kevin ritson on Friday 18th December 09:59

[LivinLaVidaLotus]

kevin ritson said:

2. R - around 30mpg, S - around 40 average, so knock 5mpg off that for town driving. I used to get 200 miles out of a tank (around 32 litres, an R will do the same miles with it's bigger tank of 38 litres)

I get between 220-240 on 36 litres just pootling around to work and back (20 miles each way), with the odd bit of 2nd cam action. Think the best I ever managed was about 38mpg - I was really bored that week, lol. Usually average around 32mpg.

[kevin ritson]

Depends on the roads really - my commute used to be 6 miles and a bit of stop-start traffic so it was probably more fuel-heavy than most but the mileage was uncannily similar in my S and the R I had on loan for a month. Never even got near second cam en-route either

[S Works]

kevin ritson said:

FEE 50 said:

1. Can I drive them as an everyday car, realistically not practically? I’m far from practical!
The tvr an absolute stunning car to drive for pleasure, but I wouldnt want to have to use it as an everyday car.

2. What are they like on fuel when just tickling arund town etc.
3. Anything quite common (faults wise) to watch out for when buying
4. Just how much faster / better is the 111r then the 111s? - To be honest I wont be driving the life out of it and think that maybe the extra cost of the 111r might not actually be worth it. I’d love to get your guys opinions on which one. Service intervals do seem a pro on the 111r
5. Obviously the TVR sounds like it was engineered by the devil! And the sound will be greatly missed. What exhaust is the recommended one to go for. I still want that nasty sound without too much cabin noise, if at all possible.

6. Anyone know of a mint black (pref with hardtop) 111r or 111s soon to be available for sale.

1. Yep - easily, provided you don't mind forgoing a couple of comforts
2. R - around 30mpg, S - around 40 average, so knock 5mpg off that for town driving. I used to get 200 miles out of a tank (around 32 litres, an R will do the same miles with it's bigger tank of 38 litres)
3. S - HGF, R - oil starvation in heavily tracked cars/worn clutches but the main issues are silly little build faults like failed radiators and heater controls
4. There's not a great deal in it. Get an S with a bit of light head work and it's only 15bhp down plus the torque curve is flatter. You really need to drive both engines, there's a huge difference between them. Services intervals for both are 9,000 miles, the only difference is the S needs a cambelt change every 4 years.
5. Have a listen - there are loads out there and it's all down to preference really. Whatever you get will increase the cabin noise as there's not much in the way of sound insulation but with track day noise regs tightening there are increasingly more 'quieter' sports exhausts on the market.
[/footnote]

DING to all that. Especially #4. IIRC the issue with the R mentioned in #3 was prevalent in a certain model year... 2004/2005 I think. A number of engines suffered from cam lobe wear, and some had total failure due to oil cavitation. Boggy and gooby know a lot about these issues, so might be worth sending them an email offline and asking them for more info.