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Discussion
Im a long time visitor to this site but have never registered, so i have done now (hello to all), in the hope i can ask for some help with me making a decision regarding my next set of wheels
Basically im torn between an E46 M3 and a Lotus Elise 111R. Both cars in my eyes are fantastic yet both offer me what i want but in a different manner. I will post this same message in the BMW Forum so i get a balanced view on that side of the fence.
My problem is do i take the all round usability and grunt of an E46 M3 or the sublime handling and focussed dynamics of the 111R. To me both cars offer me what i want but with drawbacks. The M3 will cost lots more to run in all aspects but the 111R is as impractical as they come as a daily driver.
What ever i buy will need to work as my daily driver. I do 2.5 miles to and from work. So what do you think? Obiviously in this forum the Lotus will get the thumbs up, but i would appreciate feedback on the real world aspects of ownership, and anyone who has switched from Elise to M3 and vice versa.
Basically im torn between an E46 M3 and a Lotus Elise 111R. Both cars in my eyes are fantastic yet both offer me what i want but in a different manner. I will post this same message in the BMW Forum so i get a balanced view on that side of the fence.
My problem is do i take the all round usability and grunt of an E46 M3 or the sublime handling and focussed dynamics of the 111R. To me both cars offer me what i want but with drawbacks. The M3 will cost lots more to run in all aspects but the 111R is as impractical as they come as a daily driver.
What ever i buy will need to work as my daily driver. I do 2.5 miles to and from work. So what do you think? Obiviously in this forum the Lotus will get the thumbs up, but i would appreciate feedback on the real world aspects of ownership, and anyone who has switched from Elise to M3 and vice versa.
Edited by Apex37 on Saturday 13th March 09:48
2.5 miles won't even warm an M3 up so you won;t be able to use that over about 5000rpm. Same with a 111R, you'll be restricted to <6500rpm. Both cars have limiters.
Personally, having had M3's, I'd go for a Lotus purely on running costs for a few miles too and from work and you'll enjoy it a lot more at weekends.
Personally, having had M3's, I'd go for a Lotus purely on running costs for a few miles too and from work and you'll enjoy it a lot more at weekends.
You would be doing well to have an M3 warmed up in 2.5miles to want to even go near 5krpm.
Ive currently got an M3 and im averaging just slightly more than 200 miles a week from a full tank all city driving though. With the M3 you will need to budget for a set of rear tyres per year, set of fronts every 2 years. They like to crack rear springs and wear out RTABs pretty regularly so depending on your mileage you could be replacing these things every year or two. Brake calipers also have a tendency to sieze especially with the grit and salt on the roads which can ruin the discs by overheating them.
Ive currently got an M3 and im averaging just slightly more than 200 miles a week from a full tank all city driving though. With the M3 you will need to budget for a set of rear tyres per year, set of fronts every 2 years. They like to crack rear springs and wear out RTABs pretty regularly so depending on your mileage you could be replacing these things every year or two. Brake calipers also have a tendency to sieze especially with the grit and salt on the roads which can ruin the discs by overheating them.
Edited by Paddymcc on Sunday 14th March 02:02
If you can put up with only having 2 seats and can trade a bit of noise for the pleasure of open roof motoring, then a 111R is a brilliant car. I have driven an Elise every day for 6 years and still only use our other cars when I need to carry more 2 or more people. Even been known to do tip runs in the Elise as you have to drive there two or three times!
fatwomble said:
There are also several supercharger options available for the Lotus to give it M3 beating performance.
M3s - especially recent ones - are quicker than your average Lotus owner gives them credit for... it's easy sitting in a lightweight Lotus, knowing you can have virtually anything in the corners, to look down (metaphorically... you'll be looking UP normally 
) on normal-looking saloon cars and think they're easy to blow away.BMW's M division make very, very impressive engines. M3s are quick, and unless you're on a *very* twisty road, you'll need one of the very hot Lotuses to 'beat' them in sensible road driving.
Of course, a Corsa can 'beat' an M3 on the road as the fastest guy on the road is simply the one willing to take the most risks, but the usual friendly 'duels' that responsible enthusiasts get into on UK roads usually go the M3's way unless you've got loads of power in your Lotus.
I'd think twice with my 'standard' Exige S in a dual carriageway / roundabout tussle - I reckon around 280 bhp will be needed in my car to keep those howling M3s at bay. Yeah they're heavy, but they've got loads of power and incredible throttle response... I'm not a BMW fan at all (never owned one) but certainly respect their engines
cyberface said:
fatwomble said:
There are also several supercharger options available for the Lotus to give it M3 beating performance.
M3s - especially recent ones - are quicker than your average Lotus owner gives them credit for... it's easy sitting in a lightweight Lotus, knowing you can have virtually anything in the corners, to look down (metaphorically... you'll be looking UP normally ) on normal-looking saloon cars and think they're easy to blow away.BMW's M division make very, very impressive engines. M3s are quick, and unless you're on a *very* twisty road, you'll need one of the very hot Lotuses to 'beat' them in sensible road driving.
Of course, a Corsa can 'beat' an M3 on the road as the fastest guy on the road is simply the one willing to take the most risks, but the usual friendly 'duels' that responsible enthusiasts get into on UK roads usually go the M3's way unless you've got loads of power in your Lotus.
I'd think twice with my 'standard' Exige S in a dual carriageway / roundabout tussle - I reckon around 280 bhp will be needed in my car to keep those howling M3s at bay. Yeah they're heavy, but they've got loads of power and incredible throttle response... I'm not a BMW fan at all (never owned one) but certainly respect their engines
If you were asking me this question in October, I'd tell you to go for the M3, because over winter it'd be a better proposition. But it's March, the summer's coming, and that 2.5miles will soon turn into a 25 miles trip on the way home in an Elise.
Picture this. It's 5.30pm. Sun's still shining. Roads are dry, you've nothing to do except get home. You've got a few things to do, but nothing that needs doing tomorrow. Stuff it. Time for a drive the long way round. You log off, walk down to the car park, blip the remote, unclip the roof, roll it up and stick it in the boot, drop into the car, fire up that silly Jap 4-pot and then have an incredible drive on your favourite A&B roads with the roof off, induction and exhaust playing your favourite tunes. Get home, leave roof off, have something to eat, then go out for another hour or two just for the hell of it.
Or, you could've stayed a bit later to finish that work, driven home the 2.5 miles with the aircon on and enjoying half a song on the iPod, eaten dinner and watched Eastenders.
Picture this. It's 5.30pm. Sun's still shining. Roads are dry, you've nothing to do except get home. You've got a few things to do, but nothing that needs doing tomorrow. Stuff it. Time for a drive the long way round. You log off, walk down to the car park, blip the remote, unclip the roof, roll it up and stick it in the boot, drop into the car, fire up that silly Jap 4-pot and then have an incredible drive on your favourite A&B roads with the roof off, induction and exhaust playing your favourite tunes. Get home, leave roof off, have something to eat, then go out for another hour or two just for the hell of it.
Or, you could've stayed a bit later to finish that work, driven home the 2.5 miles with the aircon on and enjoying half a song on the iPod, eaten dinner and watched Eastenders.
S Works said:
If you were asking me this question in October, I'd tell you to go for the M3, because over winter it'd be a better proposition. But it's March, the summer's coming, and that 2.5miles will soon turn into a 25 miles trip on the way home in an Elise.
Picture this. It's 5.30pm. Sun's still shining. Roads are dry, you've nothing to do except get home. You've got a few things to do, but nothing that needs doing tomorrow. Stuff it. Time for a drive the long way round. You log off, walk down to the car park, blip the remote, unclip the roof, roll it up and stick it in the boot, drop into the car, fire up that silly Jap 4-pot and then have an incredible drive on your favourite A&B roads with the roof off, induction and exhaust playing your favourite tunes. Get home, leave roof off, have something to eat, then go out for another hour or two just for the hell of it.
Or, you could've stayed a bit later to finish that work, driven home the 2.5 miles with the aircon on and enjoying half a song on the iPod, eaten dinner and watched Eastenders.
eloquently put Picture this. It's 5.30pm. Sun's still shining. Roads are dry, you've nothing to do except get home. You've got a few things to do, but nothing that needs doing tomorrow. Stuff it. Time for a drive the long way round. You log off, walk down to the car park, blip the remote, unclip the roof, roll it up and stick it in the boot, drop into the car, fire up that silly Jap 4-pot and then have an incredible drive on your favourite A&B roads with the roof off, induction and exhaust playing your favourite tunes. Get home, leave roof off, have something to eat, then go out for another hour or two just for the hell of it.
Or, you could've stayed a bit later to finish that work, driven home the 2.5 miles with the aircon on and enjoying half a song on the iPod, eaten dinner and watched Eastenders.
and personally I'd get the Lotus but cycle to work. 2.5 miles is nothing in the balmy british summer!!
ok cheers for the response
still a tough decision! I know my daily commute is nothing, and i do cycle when its not cold/wet/windy. I would use it for the inclement days and then those days when i just cant be bothered to ride.
Ive also considered the Banger plus 111R approach but id be worried the 111R would sit in the garage too much. Tough choice.
still a tough decision! I know my daily commute is nothing, and i do cycle when its not cold/wet/windy. I would use it for the inclement days and then those days when i just cant be bothered to ride.
Ive also considered the Banger plus 111R approach but id be worried the 111R would sit in the garage too much. Tough choice.
I had an E46 M3 for 3 years and 21k miles (now in Exige S 220) and while the M3 is a great car (fast, comfy, toys, practical boot etc) - it never felt special to drive, above say a standard 330 coupe?
For your mileage, I wouldn't consider the M3, far too expensive to run at 23mpg and 911 size tyres etc etc (I am assuming you are talking second hand, so someone else will have worn out most of the consumables?) and you don't really need to worry about day to day comfort?
They are quick though for a 1.5+ tonne car - I reckon my Exige is way faster up to 90-100mph and firing between corners - not sure how a normally aspirated car would feel against one, as I have never driven one?
For your mileage, I wouldn't consider the M3, far too expensive to run at 23mpg and 911 size tyres etc etc (I am assuming you are talking second hand, so someone else will have worn out most of the consumables?) and you don't really need to worry about day to day comfort?
They are quick though for a 1.5+ tonne car - I reckon my Exige is way faster up to 90-100mph and firing between corners - not sure how a normally aspirated car would feel against one, as I have never driven one?
I echo Cyberface's comments re the M3 - they are seriously quick and the E46 is actually very chuckable. My old man had one for 5.5yrs and they're an awesome car to hurl around. For a 2.5 mile journey to work I wouldn't get either though - they won't warm up and will generally be completely wasted. Just buy a cheap hack and get a nice Elise as a toy. The M3 is a fine car, I think they're fantastic but for weekend fun the Elise will feel far more special. If it was a 40 mile commute, I wouldn't hesitate in recommending the Bavarian. And I know from speaking to my old man that the bills on an M3 can be sufficient to make an impoverished Elise owner like me needing to sit in a darkened room for a few days contemplating which organ needs selling. I have a 5 mile commute so recently bought a Peugeot 306 Rallye for £2k. I much prefer using that for such journeys - good visibility, decent performance, OK fuel consumption, not too dear to fix, etc. The Elise is out of danger in the garage and we enjoy a great time every weekend together.
Keep us posted on your decision, buddy. You wouldn't regret either!
Keep us posted on your decision, buddy. You wouldn't regret either!
I've just sold my E46 M3 and am moving into Elise/Exige ownership. I think the greater flow is from M3 to Elise/Exige rather than Elise/Exige to M3 which may or may not tell you something. To be honest with a 2.5 mile commute it wouldn't matter which you got as neither would be warmed up. Also, depending on where you park etc, I doubt you'd bother taking the roof off for a 2.5 mile drive home no matter what the weather.
The M3 is a truly great car with a mighty engine, huge power, great handling and is very well built. It's a family car that 4 can go holiday in and then the next week you can have a blast in it at a track day and hold your own against most things there. If you want an all-rounder then it's top of my list.
If you want purity of driving experience, handling, enough power to keep you happy and don't need the practicality of 4 seats and boot then of course it's the Lotus.
If you buy well you shouldn't see huge depreciation on either (although more on the M3 than Lotus in my view). Running costs are certainly more on the M3 (but then a decently spec'd one is a £50k car).
Enjoy choosing - there isn't a wrong choice!
The M3 is a truly great car with a mighty engine, huge power, great handling and is very well built. It's a family car that 4 can go holiday in and then the next week you can have a blast in it at a track day and hold your own against most things there. If you want an all-rounder then it's top of my list.
If you want purity of driving experience, handling, enough power to keep you happy and don't need the practicality of 4 seats and boot then of course it's the Lotus.
If you buy well you shouldn't see huge depreciation on either (although more on the M3 than Lotus in my view). Running costs are certainly more on the M3 (but then a decently spec'd one is a £50k car).
Enjoy choosing - there isn't a wrong choice!
zebra said:
So it looks like the lotus forum suggests an elise. Did the BMW forum suggest an M3 by any chance? Perhaps you should go and test drive both. They are chalk and cheese and offer very different driving experiences; then you can make your own mind up.
I just took a look and oddly enough - no, apart from one guy who went from a VX without a proper heater to an M3 !A couple reckoned on getting a snotter for the commute and a toy (Lotus) for the weekend - they must be infiltrators from here !!
until you're driving fast the M3 is just like any other 3 series.
An elise is always a pure sports car, purpose built for one purpose only - driving pleasure.
That's why even on your commute it will feel special and why even below 5000 revs it's still a delight to drive. Throw the roof in the back (and into the equation) and you have that rarest of things - a car that's enjoyable to drive both fast and slow. There are no shortcuts to such response, agility and immediacy. It can't be replicated north of 1500kg.
Having the best steering in the world means you enjoy it every time you turn a corner. The M3 is only enjoyable when you're using what it's got over a 3 series diesel, be that noise or performance it means driving fast.
An elise is always a pure sports car, purpose built for one purpose only - driving pleasure.
That's why even on your commute it will feel special and why even below 5000 revs it's still a delight to drive. Throw the roof in the back (and into the equation) and you have that rarest of things - a car that's enjoyable to drive both fast and slow. There are no shortcuts to such response, agility and immediacy. It can't be replicated north of 1500kg.
Having the best steering in the world means you enjoy it every time you turn a corner. The M3 is only enjoyable when you're using what it's got over a 3 series diesel, be that noise or performance it means driving fast.
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