Discussion
Hi,
I'm looking at getting a 04/05/06 111R and i had a couple of question i was hoping you could help with.
Does a 111r have a LSD? If not is it something thats needed or recomended for fast road and track driving?
Also, some of the nearer elise's seem to have Traction Contol, when did this come in and would it be on a 111r of this age?
Cheers
Stu
I'm looking at getting a 04/05/06 111R and i had a couple of question i was hoping you could help with.
Does a 111r have a LSD? If not is it something thats needed or recomended for fast road and track driving?
Also, some of the nearer elise's seem to have Traction Contol, when did this come in and would it be on a 111r of this age?
Cheers
Stu
Lotus don't like LSD's generally as they tend to promote understeer. As engineering purists they often claim a properly set up car shouldn't need one.
Lotus do offer LSD's as an option but they always say they're for people who take their cars to 'hillclimbs and sprints' suggesting the main benefits are to that of better traction off the line.
Not many LSDs work particularly well in my experience. They are slow to react and can produce inconsistent grip issues. I think the best type would be a torsen (torque sensing) diff but very few cars offer those. The viscous coupling type are pretty crude on the whole in my experience (they use a liquid inside that gets more 'viscous' as the speed differential between the wheels increases.
Lotus do offer LSD's as an option but they always say they're for people who take their cars to 'hillclimbs and sprints' suggesting the main benefits are to that of better traction off the line.
Not many LSDs work particularly well in my experience. They are slow to react and can produce inconsistent grip issues. I think the best type would be a torsen (torque sensing) diff but very few cars offer those. The viscous coupling type are pretty crude on the whole in my experience (they use a liquid inside that gets more 'viscous' as the speed differential between the wheels increases.
Stu3500 said:
I dont think i've ever driven a performance car with out an LSD. The only cars i have driven without are 330d's and when you try get a bit of a drift from them out of roundabouts the inside wheel just spins up. i pressume this is no problem with elise's?
stu
No it's not a problem with Elises, mostly because you don't buy an Elise to drift it. Whilst it's perfectly possible to drift an Elise around a roundabout, it's really not what the car is designed for. stu
Agree with The Pits' conclusions, after I've tried all types of lsd's over the years in variety of road-cum-track cars.
Fitted the Quaife torsen diff to last 2 cars I've owned (Ginetta V8 & TVR) and about to fit one to my VX220 SC for road use. Not necessary, but fun!
They don't promote understeer, or oversteer unless you accelerate hard in the wet - and even then are very soft and controllable unlike clutch-type, or hydraulic type which are rather unpredictable to drive on the limit especially in light cars.
Torsen types do give you better traction accelerating out of tight corners, and extra controllable fun on roundabouts, but I'd think you'd not find this traction limit often unless it's wet or you have over 200lbft per tonne.
Fitted the Quaife torsen diff to last 2 cars I've owned (Ginetta V8 & TVR) and about to fit one to my VX220 SC for road use. Not necessary, but fun!
They don't promote understeer, or oversteer unless you accelerate hard in the wet - and even then are very soft and controllable unlike clutch-type, or hydraulic type which are rather unpredictable to drive on the limit especially in light cars.
Torsen types do give you better traction accelerating out of tight corners, and extra controllable fun on roundabouts, but I'd think you'd not find this traction limit often unless it's wet or you have over 200lbft per tonne.
kambites said:
Stu3500 said:
I dont think i've ever driven a performance car with out an LSD. The only cars i have driven without are 330d's and when you try get a bit of a drift from them out of roundabouts the inside wheel just spins up. i pressume this is no problem with elise's?
stu
No it's not a problem with Elises, mostly because you don't buy an Elise to drift it. Whilst it's perfectly possible to drift an Elise around a roundabout, it's really not what the car is designed for. stu
However it is a great way to put a smile on your face coming home in the rain after a crap day at work!
Stu3500 said:
kambites said:
Stu3500 said:
I dont think i've ever driven a performance car with out an LSD. The only cars i have driven without are 330d's and when you try get a bit of a drift from them out of roundabouts the inside wheel just spins up. i pressume this is no problem with elise's?
stu
No it's not a problem with Elises, mostly because you don't buy an Elise to drift it. Whilst it's perfectly possible to drift an Elise around a roundabout, it's really not what the car is designed for. stu
However it is a great way to put a smile on your face coming home in the rain after a crap day at work!
IMO, whilst you *can* slide Elises / Exiges around if you're a good driver, the basic design has too short a wheelbase to be a 'friendly' drift machine, and I really don't try to tweak the tail on the road. My 'sensible family saloon' has getting on for twice the wheelbase with a narrower track, a plate-type LSD and a silly engine, and is, on the other hand, the friendliest oversteer companion ever. My girlfriend often tells me the Growler (her name for it) did a 'wiggle' when driving to the station in the morning...
The weird thing is that Lotus marketing often shows their cars at the Hethel track fully sideways out of the 180 degree bend at the bottom corner of the circuit, and then goes on to say that all Lotuses need the ability to throw these sorts of shapes as 'part of their DNA'. Whilst driving instructors like Walshy can hold oversteer at will in Elises, I really don't feel comfortable doing this sort of thing on the road - in any of the variants I've owned from S1 to VXT to S2 Exige. Perhaps I'm just a really lousy driver, or perhaps I'm just no good at oversteer, but the Lotus doesn't feel - to me - at home playing the hooligan.
And I'm talking about Japanese computer-game stuff here, not a bit of trail-braking to trim an apex and then holding the edge of a four-wheel-drift out, as per the Clark Curve / Clearways combo at Brands. The only time I've seen other people do 'big lairy slides' in Lotuses on the road, it precedes a spin, or a stack.
However, if you really like sideways, and you're good at it, then it may be worth getting in touch with Dan Webster, who has fitted some sort of LSD to his S1 Elise and has plenty of YouTube videos of him bombing round Oulton Park, mostly with big drifts
I remember him from his Mini exploits (he had, at one point, the most powerful A series Mini with some 16v head and consumable gearboxes) but then bumped into him on SELOC and found his Elise-drifting YouTube videos. Great stuff, and fun to watch - but I wouldn't do that on the road cyberface said:
However, if you really like sideways, and you're good at it, then it may be worth getting in touch with Dan Webster, who has fitted some sort of LSD to his S1 Elise and has plenty of YouTube videos of him bombing round Oulton Park, mostly with big drifts
I now own Dan's old Sport 160 (he upgraded to a S1 Sport 190). It has a torsen LSD fitted. I'm no drift king but have had some fun with odd dab of oppo at low speed in the short time I've had the car. It certainly feels nice and controllable. Dan's vids are good to watch 
He had the car set up fairly 'pointy'. I asked him to reduce this as I'm not quite ready for that 
Elise is definitely driftable in the wet. Haven't managed it in the dry yet. Too much grip at the rear for all that. In the wet (but recommend only a trackday for this) the Mk2s like mine have a built in 'drift switch'. You have to lift off the throttle to unstick the rear, feel it start to move then get back on the power (which will improve rear grip) and ride the slide out, balancing the car with opposite lock. It's enormous fun but fail to lift off and it'll just understeer. It's a very clever set up to allow both options. It's very easy to do out of slow corners. 2nd, 3rd gear max. It gets increasingly difficult at higher speeds.
Never driven an Elise that wasn't easily driftable wet or dry. They're easy cars to slide once you get the hang of them.
If the suspension is set up well, you won't need an LSD unless you've got mega power.
On my S1 Exige there were a couple of track corners where I found I was losing out not having an LSD as it wouldn't put its power down.
I've got a Quaife ATB diff in the new box, purely because it's going to be light and have over 220bhp so it'll need to put its power down well.
If the suspension is set up well, you won't need an LSD unless you've got mega power.
On my S1 Exige there were a couple of track corners where I found I was losing out not having an LSD as it wouldn't put its power down.
I've got a Quaife ATB diff in the new box, purely because it's going to be light and have over 220bhp so it'll need to put its power down well.
This old chestnut...
Its quite a subjective er...subject if you ask me. Personally, I was considering getting rid of my first elise (Johns car) not long after I bought it, as despite all of the character that a 160 has, the lack of LSD was driving me crazy. Not because i'm a racing driver and I wanted to eek every last tenth of a second out of my car, but because I get so much pleasure from driving or to be more specific, going sideways.
I suspect that Lotus' comments may have been taken out of context slightly regarding the fitment of an LSD, after all their latest and quickest Exige has one as standard. It may not add to the driving experience of a lower powered elise unless you are deliberately being a hooligan (one of my favourite parts of having a driving licence) but there is no doubt that it gives a well driven elise is given an extra dimension of adjustability, especially in the wet, when fitted with one.
I had a Torsen diff in the 160 and have a quaife ATB in my current car. They work in an almost identical fashion, being torque biasing and not 100% locking. Unless you are at, near, or even over the limit, you'd probably never know you had one fitted as they are very benign in their operation. The thing that destroyed the car for me though, was what was alluded to earlier - spinning up the inside rear in wet conditions. It frustrated the hell out of me and I was much happier having much finer control over what both of the rear wheels were doing....thats not to say I couldn't have plenty of fun without the LSD though.
What I will say is that if you go from an open diff to an LSD be careful in the wet, as you do lose the safety net that a spinning inside rear gives you, ie. if you give it a bootful in the wet and spin up both rears the car will go a long way in a short space of time as opposed to going nowhere and burning rubber when you spin an inside rear up.
The fact you're able to leave every T junction dukes of hazard style leaving a pair of 11's up the road makes them worthwhile if you ask me
Its quite a subjective er...subject if you ask me. Personally, I was considering getting rid of my first elise (Johns car) not long after I bought it, as despite all of the character that a 160 has, the lack of LSD was driving me crazy. Not because i'm a racing driver and I wanted to eek every last tenth of a second out of my car, but because I get so much pleasure from driving or to be more specific, going sideways.
I suspect that Lotus' comments may have been taken out of context slightly regarding the fitment of an LSD, after all their latest and quickest Exige has one as standard. It may not add to the driving experience of a lower powered elise unless you are deliberately being a hooligan (one of my favourite parts of having a driving licence) but there is no doubt that it gives a well driven elise is given an extra dimension of adjustability, especially in the wet, when fitted with one.
I had a Torsen diff in the 160 and have a quaife ATB in my current car. They work in an almost identical fashion, being torque biasing and not 100% locking. Unless you are at, near, or even over the limit, you'd probably never know you had one fitted as they are very benign in their operation. The thing that destroyed the car for me though, was what was alluded to earlier - spinning up the inside rear in wet conditions. It frustrated the hell out of me and I was much happier having much finer control over what both of the rear wheels were doing....thats not to say I couldn't have plenty of fun without the LSD though.
What I will say is that if you go from an open diff to an LSD be careful in the wet, as you do lose the safety net that a spinning inside rear gives you, ie. if you give it a bootful in the wet and spin up both rears the car will go a long way in a short space of time as opposed to going nowhere and burning rubber when you spin an inside rear up.
The fact you're able to leave every T junction dukes of hazard style leaving a pair of 11's up the road makes them worthwhile if you ask me
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