Is Lotus planning a Elan-Comeback?
Discussion
The VVA would even allow Lotus to develop a front-engine, rear-drive successor to the iconic Elan of the 1960s if it so wanted. The challenge would be sourcing a suitable powertrain, as most in the sub-2.0-liter category are front-drive configurations. That, of course, would make for an even easier transformation into a mid-engine layout like the current Elise’s.
Reading the runes at Hethel has never been easy, but with a new management team on board led by ex-Ferrari man Danny Bahr, as well as a new head of design (another Ferrari refugee, Donato Coco), it’s even more difficult these days. Even so, an all-new Elise should be on the road by 2013. And don’t be surprised if a new Elan finds its way into dealers as well, ready to take on the evergreen Mazda MX-5 Miata along with Toyota’s new FT-86.
Road&Track 2010
Reading the runes at Hethel has never been easy, but with a new management team on board led by ex-Ferrari man Danny Bahr, as well as a new head of design (another Ferrari refugee, Donato Coco), it’s even more difficult these days. Even so, an all-new Elise should be on the road by 2013. And don’t be surprised if a new Elan finds its way into dealers as well, ready to take on the evergreen Mazda MX-5 Miata along with Toyota’s new FT-86.
Road&Track 2010
I always thought the Europa, which has a marginally easier sill to get into and a lustier torquier engine than the Exige, would have sold better if they had 'softened' it further to differentiate it from an Exige to position it as a Z4/TT rival - and chopped the roof to make an Elan.
It could have looked like a mini Gallardo roadster too...
It could have looked like a mini Gallardo roadster too...
I'm with kambites on this one. The Elise bridges the gap between the MX5 market and the Boxster market, and Lotus couldn't put another product in either market without stealing Elise sales.... unless the next Elise goes upmarket and becomes a genuine boxster competitor (more power / comfort) with the Elan slotting into the MX5 segment.
Having said that, then the upmarket Elise would start stealing sales from the Evora which also has a foot in the Boxster/Cayman market.
Having said that, then the upmarket Elise would start stealing sales from the Evora which also has a foot in the Boxster/Cayman market.
kambites said:
I don't really see how Lotus could make an Elan that didn't compete pretty much directly with the Elise.
Very easy solution: Make it more "comfort-oriented" and aim for young women/people in general who really just want a small/compact roadster. Just remember: MG Rover sold 15.000 Fs/TFs p.a. (mid 90s till 2002ish) despite the existance of the Mazda MX5. Furthermore, take into accout that there's no alternative, no competitor to the Mazda MX5 : The production of the Fiat Barchetta stopped in 2001/2002. The MG TF is too dated/old to be considered as real competitor and is also only sold in UK and in very low numbers in China. Every other comparable roadster is way more expensive or simply doesn't exist. Such a new Lotus Elan could a really be an instant "hit" in the US and of course also successful in Europe.
The guys in Hethel would dance naked on the table if they could generate 10.000 - 15.000 additional sales p.a.
with just one new model.
In three or more in five years no one will speak about "economic crisis". People will splash money on such things
like two-seater drop tops again. Till then Lotus should be able to offer a fine compact roadster which is the adequate companion for sunny and hot summers days (or grey and rainy spring days in Cornwall/Wales/England
) and which has a easy and fast to open/close soft-top (instead of this origami-like fiddeling with the Elise roof.)I don't know much about the original Elan (even though my Grandad had one when I was a kid - I was too young to appreciate what it was, his arthritis meant it had to go when I was about 8) but I reckon that the mk 1 MX-5 was a pretty good idea of what a mass market modern elan would have been (I had one for 3 years and loved it). I guess if Lotus would try to do an updated version it would have to be a bit lighter and stiffer than the MX-5 but would probably be double the price (or at least be Elise-level money), even assuming they could sell it at MGF type volumes, so I suspect that it wouldn't be a viable proposition for them.
I would have thought that the only viable way of making this work would be for a mass-market manufacturer to look after the production and look to global volumes to keep the price viable, with Lotus doing the engineering - otherwise I can't see how they would compete with the MX-5.
I would have thought that the only viable way of making this work would be for a mass-market manufacturer to look after the production and look to global volumes to keep the price viable, with Lotus doing the engineering - otherwise I can't see how they would compete with the MX-5.
Loudman said:
I don't know much about the original Elan but I reckon that the mk 1 MX-5 was a pretty good idea of what a mass market modern elan would have been...
As it happens I bought myself a Mk1. Mazda MX5 yesterday and as I type this it's sitting next to my Elan Sprint out front.I have to say that the MX5 doesn't even come close to the original Elan in terms of performance and driving dynamics, let alone qualifying as a 'modern day' version.
Don't get me wrong; the Mazda is a nice little car (I wouldn't have bought it otherwise). It's comfortable, reliable, well built, handles reasonably well (though it's obvious that it is severely lacking in torsional stiffness for its weight, compared to the Elan) and it has a superb gearchange (nearly as good as the Elan's and with an extra gear that makes motorways tolerable), but it's just plain slow compared to the Elan, and the handling precision is nowhere near as good.
Don't let anyone kid you - both in terms of performance and price, the MX5 is a modern day MGB, not a modern day Elan.
I wasn't suggesting that the MX5 was a modern version of the Elan, I'm suggesting that it is a modern version of a mass market Elan, which is a very different thing. I can't imagine that any large scale manufacturer would be able to profitably sell anything as focussed and 'niche' as an original Elan, or even an Elise - Vauxhall tried with the VX220 and I suspect that they didn't make much money out of it (he says without knowing any facts) - and that was a bit of a Frankinstien at using the Elise platform with some different parts on it. For a mass market car it needs to be much more livable with, which means it will inherently a bit softer less pure. I reckon that the Mk1 MX5 is about as basic and focussed as any mass market car has been since I've been driving (c.20 years)
Funnily enough I've also recently bought myself a Mk1 MX5 as a cheap, fun summer car. This one in fact - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1673480.htm - and despite the suspension being a little over-sprung and under-damped for most British roads, it's actually a bloody good little car for ~£3k.
I've never driven a classic Elan, sadly, but I defer to Sam's better knowledge. The little MX though is a fantastic car, and if Lotus could do something similar and call it Elan, FERWD, then I believe they'd be on to a winner. For lots of folks the Elise platform is a bit too compromised, but a different package with different dynamics would probably sell, and sell well.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do believe there's a market for such a car, and I reckon Lotus could be the guys to do it, and do it right.
I've never driven a classic Elan, sadly, but I defer to Sam's better knowledge. The little MX though is a fantastic car, and if Lotus could do something similar and call it Elan, FERWD, then I believe they'd be on to a winner. For lots of folks the Elise platform is a bit too compromised, but a different package with different dynamics would probably sell, and sell well.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do believe there's a market for such a car, and I reckon Lotus could be the guys to do it, and do it right.
grumbledoak said:
For all the Elan represents in our heads, they would effectively be competing with the MX-5. Difficult to see how they could make that work - any more 'hardcore' than the MX-5 and it would essentially be competing with the Elise instead.
Not convinced that niche still exists.
To my mind there's a good opportunity for a lightweight car (the new MX5 is a bit lardy to say the least), and there's very little competition on a similar platform. Being able to achieve a competitive price is the kicker.Not convinced that niche still exists.
S Works said:
For lots of folks the Elise platform is a bit too compromised, but a different package with different dynamics would probably sell, and sell well.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do believe there's a market for such a car, and I reckon Lotus could be the guys to do it, and do it right.
I agree, I've had people look at getting in the VX and just laugh and say they'd never be able to get out again. Women tend to hate it if they are wearing a skirt as well, I've had my VX a year and the Mrs has driven it twice and only then because I was off mountain biking so I'd taken the barge. The MX5 on the other hand before it became a track car was loved by all.I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do believe there's a market for such a car, and I reckon Lotus could be the guys to do it, and do it right.
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Monday 31st May 00:18
Loudman said:
I wasn't suggesting that the MX5 was a modern version of the Elan, I'm suggesting that it is a modern version of a mass market Elan, which is a very different thing.
The MX5 is a cheaper and much lower performance modern version of a mass market Elan; which is, indeed, a very different thing. It's a thing called an MGB, in fact. 
The Elan was always a very expensive little car. In terms of both performance and price, it sat in a niche somewhere between the 'budget' sports cars (Triumph and MG in the '60's) and the lower end of the Supercar range (Porsche 911 and Jaguar E-type). A 'modern' Elan would therefore sit in the niche between cars like the MX5, MGF and MR2 (the modern successors to the MG's and Triumphs) and the Porsche 911 and other junior supercars... which would pitch it into the niche occupied by the Boxter, BMW Z4 and the current Elise/Exige range. It would therefore be competing with Lotus' own range at the 'hardcore' end of the spectrum and with some very competent, well-built and reputable german sports cars at the 'softer' end of the scale.
The Elise was the modern day version of the Elan; it sits at a similar price and performance point in the market, is similarly (and superbly) driver-focused; like the Elan, it derives its performance from clever, innovative design and it has even followed the same evolutionary path, starting out as a basic and spartan roadster (S1 Elan/Elise) and developing into something a bit heavier and more luxurious whilst retaining the core attraction and enhancing the performance (Elise SC/Elan Sprint).
It's a bit pointless wishing for a 'modern day Elan', because we've already got one.
I disagree Sam, it's not pointless at all. If the VVA architecture can be used to put something into a similar price point, but which caters for a different buyer than the Elise (in my opinion all of those are purchased by people for whom the Elise platform is simply too compromised), then I imagine it could be a contender.
My Mrs for instance would be very unlikely to be persuaded into an Elise or an Exige (unless I bought it), but she was happy enough to buy a 350Z. Now if Lotus could produce a car which is a tad more practical, a tad less 'extreme', but with the sublime handling and driver involvement that we know Hethel does so well, then it would sell. What they can't afford to do is another Europa - a car which promised so much and didn't deliver against it, very probably because it wasn't properly 'finished'.
Whilst you're correct at the original Elan's price point and where it pitched, I still think that Lotus could do a car priced at the Elise S point and it be successful.
My Mrs for instance would be very unlikely to be persuaded into an Elise or an Exige (unless I bought it), but she was happy enough to buy a 350Z. Now if Lotus could produce a car which is a tad more practical, a tad less 'extreme', but with the sublime handling and driver involvement that we know Hethel does so well, then it would sell. What they can't afford to do is another Europa - a car which promised so much and didn't deliver against it, very probably because it wasn't properly 'finished'.
Whilst you're correct at the original Elan's price point and where it pitched, I still think that Lotus could do a car priced at the Elise S point and it be successful.
Sam_68 said:
Loudman said:
I wasn't suggesting that the MX5 was a modern version of the Elan, I'm suggesting that it is a modern version of a mass market Elan, which is a very different thing.
The MX5 is a cheaper and much lower performance modern version of a mass market Elan; which is, indeed, a very different thing. It's a thing called an MGB, in fact. It's a bit pointless wishing for a 'modern day Elan', because we've already got one.
To make a compact roadster - which is comparable and competes with the MX5 - and call it "Elan" is a "no brainer"
for Lotus. People have just to understand that Lotus can't survive with serving only enthusiasts and their needs
of a "no comprimise lightwhight sports car with a fiddly roof".
(And if your uncomfortable with calling such a new roadster "Elan", I'm happy to convince Lotus cars that the best name for such a roadster would be "Eric". It sounds so much better when mistresses/wifes/hairdressers say to some (other) women: "Oh, did I tell you ? My lover/hubby/partner bought me a shiny new "Eric" ! No, it's not a new sextoy. It's a car ! Yes, a bright yellow Lotus Eric. It's a roadster. So, you can open the roof. The best thing is: The colour of the leather in its interior matches perfectly with my new shoes and my new handbag !")
GAGA said:
With such an argumentation there would be no new MINI and no new Fiat 500.
And this would be a bad thing??? Oh... and if you're bringing up the subject of naff, overpriced, pastiche fashion accessories that contain nothing of the character that made the originals famous, you forgot the 'new Beetle'.
The difference being, the MINI was/is an excellent car and carried forwards DNA from the original that (were he still alive), I'll warrant Issigonis would have approved of. The Mk1 BMW MINI Cooper S Works on the original Cooper 15' wheels is one of the best hot hatches ever made IMvHO.
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