Speed Six Engine Variants

[Englishman]

I know some TVR models were marketed with Red Rose and S packages that supposedly included engine upgrades.

Does anyone have any details of these upgrades (just to the engine), e.g. bigger injectors.

Much appreciated.

[Willfin]

Im pretty sure the red rose cars had an EN40B billet crank which is nice.

Other than that Im not sure.

Id be a cynic towards the bhp "upgrades" claimed by TVR.

[m4tti]

From memory.

Higher flowing injectors
Altered cam timing
Different map

That's it.

The early red rose originally had a billet crank, but the later cars moved to ADI (austempered ductile iron) cranks which are more than capable of handling the horsepower.

[Willfin]

m4tti said:

The early red rose originally had a billet crank, but the later cars moved to ADI (austempered ductile iron) cranks which are more than capable of handling the horsepower.

Interesting!

Found this online too which is an interesting read...

http://www.appliedprocess.com/Custom/Document/GetF...

[Englishman]

All very interesting.

Looking at the TVR Parts website, they do indeed offer two types of OE injectors (higher flow just for Tuscan S and Sagaris), but only one crankshaft and one pair of OE camshafts.

I guess any other power/torque increase for Red Rose and S variants must therefore have been obtained by mapping, assuming they were not just marketing exercises.

[m4tti]

Englishman said:

All very interesting.

assuming they were not just marketing exercises.

You've got it! A very clever way of making a few K more from some injectors. The timing and map were essentially free as they were simply adjustments of standard components.

[m4tti]

Willfin said:

Interesting!

Found this online too which is an interesting read...

http://www.appliedprocess.com/Custom/Document/GetF...

Yep have read that before is an interesting read. It seems they involved someone who knew what they were doing.

[hardtailer]

Increased compression, 12:1 I've read on here somewhere, by means of special pistons which have flat tops as opposed to the dish topped standard ones.

[m4tti]

hardtailer said:

Increased compression, 12:1 I've read on here somewhere, by means of special pistons which have flat tops as opposed to the dish topped standard ones.

The 3.6 uses the pistons without the raised edge....

[Englishman]

Has anyone had a Red Rose rebuild and can detail the differences to the standard engine?

[Andy_mr2sc]

m4tti said:

From memory.

Higher flowing injectors
Altered cam timing
Different map

That's it.

The early red rose originally had a billet crank, but the later cars moved to ADI (austempered ductile iron) cranks which are more than capable of handling the horsepower.

[Whitey]

cam timing, bigger injectors, different pistons, different ECU fueling chip, and on early ones steel crank and double valve springs.

And most important of all "red rose" in marker pen on the fuel rail.

[m4tti]

Whitey said:

cam timing, bigger injectors, different pistons, different ECU fueling chip, and on early ones steel crank and double valve springs.

And most important of all "red rose" in marker pen on the fuel rail.

Interesting do you have any pics of these pistons. I'd like to compare to the pistons i have on the side.

[Whitey]

M4tti I have an email from a factory engine builder after the factory closed, I printed it so will get the details off that and post it next week.

[m4tti]

Whitey said:

M4tti I have an email from a factory engine builder after the factory closed, I printed it so will get the details off that and post it next week.

Cool, thanks whitey.

[Englishman]

That will be very interesting. There seem to be many myths over what an S6 Red Rose engine build actually comprised of.

It certainly seems the S varient of the Tuscan simply has bigger injectors, different cam timing and map - the same as the Sagaris.

[Whitey]

m4tti, I finally dug out the email, further to what I posted below, it says "standard 4.0 had a 1mm dish in the piston crown".

cheers
Whitey

[dpd3047]

In answer to your question the standard 4.0 litre has 11.0 to 1 compression ratio the pistons have a 2mm dish
the cam timing is full lift on the inlet is @ 107.5 degrees ATDC, and the exhaust is full lift @ 104.5 degrees BTDC, lobe lift at the valve is .400 thou or 10.16mm inlet and exhaust.
Red rose Tuscan S Sagaris and 3.6 engines Compression ratio is 11.5 to 1, piston dish is 1mm on the 4.0 litre engines, the 3.6 engine has a flat top piston, cam timing for these engines is Inlet full lift @ 113.5 degrees ATDC, the Exhaust is full lift @ 107.5 degrees BTDC.lobe lift at the valve is .400 thou or 10.16mm.
The camshafts in all engines are the same lift and the duration 268 degrees.

[portzi]

m4tti said:

Whitey said:

cam timing, bigger injectors, different pistons, different ECU fueling chip, and on early ones steel crank and double valve springs.

And most important of all "red rose" in marker pen on the fuel rail.

Interesting do you have any pics of these pistons. I'd like to compare to the pistons i have on the side.

That marker penning will have to be carbon dated to verify it originality .