Feeling of Danger on the Motorway
Discussion
Generally I like to progress as quickly as safely possible on a motorway while keeping risk of NIP punishment low. I think this is true to the fellows whose blood sweat and tears built the UK motorway systems back in the 1960-80's.
In practice this results in speeds of about 75mph on smart motorways or other sections with fixed cameras, and adding maybe 5mph on sections that may only have road traffic cops.
Last week I took my wife somewhere, can't remember where now, but it involved the M25. At the beginning of the return trip she engaged me in quite an intense conversation. I can't remember now what the conversation was about, but it was one-sided and I had to engage brain to listen at the time. This meant that naturally I slowed down to about 60mph.
After about five minutes at this pace I became aware of how nasty motorway driving must be for most drivers. Cars all roughly doing the same speed, all boxed in, vehicles in blind spots for long periods on both sides. I became aware that this is quite dangerous as with the best will in the world it's extremely difficult to keep track of both blind spots constantly over a long journey while being boxed in on both sides by vehicles all proceeding at roughly the same speed. Once I became aware of this I excused myself from the conversation on the basis of impending balls of fire and twisted wreckage, which was accepted, and sped up to my usual 70+mph and it felt a lot safer. It feels safer to me, partly because more time is spent in the final overtaking lane, so it's less challenging checking blind spots, and partly because more time is spent actively overtaking, rather than occupying an overtaking lane passing or being passed by multiple vehicles maybe at 0.1mph - 5mph.
So, my feeling on the day was that it's safer to either sit at say 57 mph, in lane 1 and actively overtake if need be, then settle back to 57mph in lane 1, or else, progress at 5-10mph more than 90% of motorway users and actively overtake most traffic, rather than bumble in the deadly glazed eye zone of the 60-65mph in any lane except lane one or the outer overtaking lane, viz the approach taken by 90% of traffic.
Maybe it's just I am not used to being boxed all around, but it did become aware of a greater risk driving at 60mph in lane two.
Of course, I have to admit while I was bumbling at 60mph in lane 2, I was multi-tasking, so maybe that was the real problem as I like to try and concentrate on driving when driving, rather than to reassign a significant percentage of operational brain capacity to absorb intensive monologues in order to respond appropriately and on time at crucial points.
In practice this results in speeds of about 75mph on smart motorways or other sections with fixed cameras, and adding maybe 5mph on sections that may only have road traffic cops.
Last week I took my wife somewhere, can't remember where now, but it involved the M25. At the beginning of the return trip she engaged me in quite an intense conversation. I can't remember now what the conversation was about, but it was one-sided and I had to engage brain to listen at the time. This meant that naturally I slowed down to about 60mph.
After about five minutes at this pace I became aware of how nasty motorway driving must be for most drivers. Cars all roughly doing the same speed, all boxed in, vehicles in blind spots for long periods on both sides. I became aware that this is quite dangerous as with the best will in the world it's extremely difficult to keep track of both blind spots constantly over a long journey while being boxed in on both sides by vehicles all proceeding at roughly the same speed. Once I became aware of this I excused myself from the conversation on the basis of impending balls of fire and twisted wreckage, which was accepted, and sped up to my usual 70+mph and it felt a lot safer. It feels safer to me, partly because more time is spent in the final overtaking lane, so it's less challenging checking blind spots, and partly because more time is spent actively overtaking, rather than occupying an overtaking lane passing or being passed by multiple vehicles maybe at 0.1mph - 5mph.
So, my feeling on the day was that it's safer to either sit at say 57 mph, in lane 1 and actively overtake if need be, then settle back to 57mph in lane 1, or else, progress at 5-10mph more than 90% of motorway users and actively overtake most traffic, rather than bumble in the deadly glazed eye zone of the 60-65mph in any lane except lane one or the outer overtaking lane, viz the approach taken by 90% of traffic.
Maybe it's just I am not used to being boxed all around, but it did become aware of a greater risk driving at 60mph in lane two.
Of course, I have to admit while I was bumbling at 60mph in lane 2, I was multi-tasking, so maybe that was the real problem as I like to try and concentrate on driving when driving, rather than to reassign a significant percentage of operational brain capacity to absorb intensive monologues in order to respond appropriately and on time at crucial points.
Edited by courty on Sunday 19th October 12:13
The Draconian punishments of small indiscretions in speed via cameras has caused what I call the Wacky Races event.
Those of you old enough will know what I'm saying. All lanes travelling at the same speed thus there is little danger perceived whilst in very close proximity.
Like a Red Arrows pilot, this 'should' involve a lot more concentration as everyone is travelling in formation but! as most will just think that they are not breaking the limit, they will relax, talk to passengers, play with their infotainment systems.
Nothing scares me more than a 50mph average speed limit in a motorway. You just see everyone around you switch off.
Fekin lunacy.
Those of you old enough will know what I'm saying. All lanes travelling at the same speed thus there is little danger perceived whilst in very close proximity.
Like a Red Arrows pilot, this 'should' involve a lot more concentration as everyone is travelling in formation but! as most will just think that they are not breaking the limit, they will relax, talk to passengers, play with their infotainment systems.
Nothing scares me more than a 50mph average speed limit in a motorway. You just see everyone around you switch off.
Fekin lunacy.
Agree with this - my preference is to set the pace on the motorway so I ll be overtaking and only managing traffic to my left, whilst always being mindful of the penalties.
In recent years I ve noticed the overall speed of the motorway is much lower and I can now sail past traffic using lane 3 at a couple of mph above 70 where previously I d be into 3 figures.
Chris
In recent years I ve noticed the overall speed of the motorway is much lower and I can now sail past traffic using lane 3 at a couple of mph above 70 where previously I d be into 3 figures.
Chris
Edited by ScoobyChris on Saturday 18th October 20:34
In truth hadn't really thought about it, other vehicles in close proximity unless behind me don't bother me. I have driven lots of motorways miles so maybe I am used to it but no doubt some people find it an intimidating environment.
I do find motorway driving monotonous and boring whilst demanding your attention because things can happen very quickly, a perfect application of fully autonomous vehicles.
I do find motorway driving monotonous and boring whilst demanding your attention because things can happen very quickly, a perfect application of fully autonomous vehicles.
I tend to sit in the outside lane at a speed quicker than those to my left. I’m not about to incriminate myself by putting numbers up but they vary with traffic and lane hoggers anyway. I find the M25 particularly bad for this due to the sheer volume of traffic & mostly it’s impossible to break the speed limit because of this.
The Wacky Races are caused by more and more speeders using Waze or their eyes to see the Hadecs cameras on the variable limit sections - slam on the brakes by the camera to the limit minus 10 mph then floor it to the next one.
The greatest danger for me are the 6 point brigade who still won’t put their phones down long enough to drive safely.
The Wacky Races are caused by more and more speeders using Waze or their eyes to see the Hadecs cameras on the variable limit sections - slam on the brakes by the camera to the limit minus 10 mph then floor it to the next one.
The greatest danger for me are the 6 point brigade who still won’t put their phones down long enough to drive safely.
I drove down the A3 the other week in an old land rover, top speed 55 on the flat. Obviously was in lane 1. Amazing how many people stacked up behind me rather than use the other (mostly) empty lanes to overtake. Even when I hit a hill and slowed to under 40, some stayed there. Bizzare. But suggests a lot really won't change lanes to overtake so have to do speed of whatever is in front
The anti-mobility pressure groups want everyone travelling at the same speed because 'speed differentials bad, mmmkay?'
Which, of course, means dumbing down to the lowest common denominator, which also fits the 'speed kills' and 'carbon-based climate catastrophe' narratives perfectly.
Which, of course, means dumbing down to the lowest common denominator, which also fits the 'speed kills' and 'carbon-based climate catastrophe' narratives perfectly.
Totally agree with this thread. When I find cars grouping together around me, I just get out of the crowd. I will either slow down and let everyone overtake and fall back a hundred metres or speed up to get out of there.
I then maintain my speed the same as the pack but hanging hundred metres back unless this is due to an HGV elephant race then try to get by as quick as possible amongst the bunched up vehicles and then create the gap aferwards.
True, with the prevalence of adaptive cruise control this has got worse.
I then maintain my speed the same as the pack but hanging hundred metres back unless this is due to an HGV elephant race then try to get by as quick as possible amongst the bunched up vehicles and then create the gap aferwards.
True, with the prevalence of adaptive cruise control this has got worse.
We're in the Advanced Driving forum. The AD approach is to actively manage your speed to keep a safety cocoon of empty space all round you. As well as 2 second following distances that means making small adjustments to your speed to avoid having other vehicles alongside you except during a brief overtake. In order to be able to do that you need to drive a little bit slower than the maximum you are comfortable with in relation to the speed limit. I use cruise a lot whether traditional or adaptive but I cancel it frequently to achieve the above.
Like others I dislike the speed enforcement regime which makes everyone drive at similar speeds and therefore makes it more difficult to keep the safety cocoon.
Ax an aside I also dislike variable speed limits. On the M25 the limit constantly changes up and down between 70 60 50 and 40. It takes too much of your available concentration to notice and remember what limit you are in. I think it would be safer to have only one lower limit of 50 for sections of high congestion.
Like others I dislike the speed enforcement regime which makes everyone drive at similar speeds and therefore makes it more difficult to keep the safety cocoon.
Ax an aside I also dislike variable speed limits. On the M25 the limit constantly changes up and down between 70 60 50 and 40. It takes too much of your available concentration to notice and remember what limit you are in. I think it would be safer to have only one lower limit of 50 for sections of high congestion.
balham123 said:
I drove down the A3 the other week in an old land rover, top speed 55 on the flat. Obviously was in lane 1. Amazing how many people stacked up behind me rather than use the other (mostly) empty lanes to overtake. Even when I hit a hill and slowed to under 40, some stayed there. Bizzare. But suggests a lot really won't change lanes to overtake so have to do speed of whatever is in front
Posted it before, it happens to lorry drivers, slowly overtaking another lorry whilst I'm in lane 2 of a 3 or 4 lane motorway, and people just sit behind at 56mph without even thinking about overtaking. It's really bizarre behaviour imo.
waremark said:
Ax an aside I also dislike variable speed limits. On the M25 the limit constantly changes up and down between 70 60 50 and 40. It takes too much of your available concentration to notice and remember what limit you are in. I think it would be safer to have only one lower limit of 50 for sections of high congestion.
I don't find that at all. It doesn't seem to take any particular amount of brain bandwidth and it's rather a helpful planning input. It's vaguely like the limit point in concept (not as direct an input obviously) staying the same, getting lower or getting higher. A change always makes me think about what might be ahead.I did an experiment driving up the M5 from J9 to J1 this morning at 6.00am
60mph had to vary speed almost continuously, repeated pulling out and pulling back in, other cars tailgating when I moved to lane 2 to pass a slow moving truck
70mph. Similar to 60 MPH bit more time in L2. Speed very inconsistent, Still a lot of pulling out to overtake and tailgating cars, muppets even at 70mph standing on the brakes at the cameras. In the 60mph variable many people slowed to 50mph but just sat in lanes 2 and 3 (4 lane section)
75mph. Mainly in L2 and L3 with much more consistent speed, overall a more relaxed drive, only 1 tailgater (transit van that seemed to think that people should pull over even when there is no gap to pull into. Same van brake checked the car in front of me)
60mph had to vary speed almost continuously, repeated pulling out and pulling back in, other cars tailgating when I moved to lane 2 to pass a slow moving truck
70mph. Similar to 60 MPH bit more time in L2. Speed very inconsistent, Still a lot of pulling out to overtake and tailgating cars, muppets even at 70mph standing on the brakes at the cameras. In the 60mph variable many people slowed to 50mph but just sat in lanes 2 and 3 (4 lane section)
75mph. Mainly in L2 and L3 with much more consistent speed, overall a more relaxed drive, only 1 tailgater (transit van that seemed to think that people should pull over even when there is no gap to pull into. Same van brake checked the car in front of me)
Reading through the replies it seems there is a concensus on this.
I always try to practice active overtaking on a motorway, particulary in regards to hgvs.
Often in busy, but not congested, traffic, this involves hanging back until the vehicle preceeding mine in an overtaking lane has progressed far enough along the carriageway to allow me to perform a swift overtake of any vehicle in the adjacent lh lane, while also leaving a sufficient following distance on completion of the manoeauvre. This caution of mine often induces a following vehicle to close up on me, but I wager that as a lesser evil than just sitting alongside another vehicle for longer than necessary as hopefully any braking needed will be less sharp due to the longer gap in front, so I have the option to actively manage the braking needed by a vehicle following too closely. Just another risk reduction which the majority of drivers don't seem to care about, viz, the majority seem quite happy to take ages to overtake an hgv, or even just settle in alongside for long periods of time, just asking to get taken out by said hgv in my opinion.
I always try to practice active overtaking on a motorway, particulary in regards to hgvs.
Often in busy, but not congested, traffic, this involves hanging back until the vehicle preceeding mine in an overtaking lane has progressed far enough along the carriageway to allow me to perform a swift overtake of any vehicle in the adjacent lh lane, while also leaving a sufficient following distance on completion of the manoeauvre. This caution of mine often induces a following vehicle to close up on me, but I wager that as a lesser evil than just sitting alongside another vehicle for longer than necessary as hopefully any braking needed will be less sharp due to the longer gap in front, so I have the option to actively manage the braking needed by a vehicle following too closely. Just another risk reduction which the majority of drivers don't seem to care about, viz, the majority seem quite happy to take ages to overtake an hgv, or even just settle in alongside for long periods of time, just asking to get taken out by said hgv in my opinion.
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