Use the horn, or not.
Discussion
Would appreciate feedback on a disagreement with a passenger recently.
Scenario, in a line of traffic, dark evening, cold and slightly damp road. Parked vehicles on nearside probably visiting a fish&chip shop. Lot of stuff going on around. There is an entrance on the left from the shop car park at the rear. Speed is about 20 ish near as dammit, limit 30 though that's irrelevant in this situation.
As stated in a line of traffic, I'm properly spaced behind the vehicle in front, say about 12 metres behind, but the one behind me bit close for comfort frankly, though a short while back they have been way way too close. Trouble there was leaving a roundabout a bit earlier, the vehicle ahead had been a bit slow to accelerate and the problem child behind had closed up so much only bonnet length behind
I see a vehicle trying to emerge from the chip shop car park, they make a little lunge as if to emerge in front of the car ahead then stop. Vehicle ahead drives past.
I have full view of the vehicle on left, they me too, one behind too close again, when the car trying to emerge starts to lunge and move wheels clearly turning when I'm less than a vehicle length away. They get two short hoots as a warning and they stop. We drive slowly past as does vehicle behind and the ones behind them.
Passenger criticises the use of the horn saying nobody would actually pull out in that situation. So use of the horn simply creates antagonism is their argument.
My thoughts were simply they made a move, regardless of whether they intended to pull out, simply trying to bully their way out. Add in the danger from behind. Could I have done an ''Ashley Neal' and let the vehicle out and assisting to keeping their chips warm? Only by stopping and definitely risking a punt up the rear. Should I have slowed down gradually and opened up more of a gap? . Vision of entrance to left difficult earlier due to parked vehicles.
Passenger is one of those who previous experience says they never back down in any disagreement and frankly it's best just to shut up and move on. When I'm a passenger to them often keep quiet when seeing clear mistakes. So to be perfectly honest not much respect for their view on this.
Do your worst folks. No offence will be taken. What could have been done differently?
Scenario, in a line of traffic, dark evening, cold and slightly damp road. Parked vehicles on nearside probably visiting a fish&chip shop. Lot of stuff going on around. There is an entrance on the left from the shop car park at the rear. Speed is about 20 ish near as dammit, limit 30 though that's irrelevant in this situation.
As stated in a line of traffic, I'm properly spaced behind the vehicle in front, say about 12 metres behind, but the one behind me bit close for comfort frankly, though a short while back they have been way way too close. Trouble there was leaving a roundabout a bit earlier, the vehicle ahead had been a bit slow to accelerate and the problem child behind had closed up so much only bonnet length behind
I see a vehicle trying to emerge from the chip shop car park, they make a little lunge as if to emerge in front of the car ahead then stop. Vehicle ahead drives past.
I have full view of the vehicle on left, they me too, one behind too close again, when the car trying to emerge starts to lunge and move wheels clearly turning when I'm less than a vehicle length away. They get two short hoots as a warning and they stop. We drive slowly past as does vehicle behind and the ones behind them.
Passenger criticises the use of the horn saying nobody would actually pull out in that situation. So use of the horn simply creates antagonism is their argument.
My thoughts were simply they made a move, regardless of whether they intended to pull out, simply trying to bully their way out. Add in the danger from behind. Could I have done an ''Ashley Neal' and let the vehicle out and assisting to keeping their chips warm? Only by stopping and definitely risking a punt up the rear. Should I have slowed down gradually and opened up more of a gap? . Vision of entrance to left difficult earlier due to parked vehicles.
Passenger is one of those who previous experience says they never back down in any disagreement and frankly it's best just to shut up and move on. When I'm a passenger to them often keep quiet when seeing clear mistakes. So to be perfectly honest not much respect for their view on this.
Do your worst folks. No offence will be taken. What could have been done differently?
Sounds reasonable to me and I d always go for toots rather than fog horn to remove aggression from it.
Saying that, I always try and avoid these sort of situations by proactively helping people merge (using the non-advanced” but well recognised headlamp flash!), but with someone so close behind maybe not an option in this instance.
Saying that, I always try and avoid these sort of situations by proactively helping people merge (using the non-advanced” but well recognised headlamp flash!), but with someone so close behind maybe not an option in this instance.
FiF said:
Would appreciate feedback on a disagreement with a passenger recently.
Scenario, in a line of traffic, dark evening, cold and slightly damp road. Parked vehicles on nearside probably visiting a fish&chip shop. Lot of stuff going on around. There is an entrance on the left from the shop car park at the rear. Speed is about 20 ish near as dammit, limit 30 though that's irrelevant in this situation.
As stated in a line of traffic, I'm properly spaced behind the vehicle in front, say about 12 metres behind, but the one behind me bit close for comfort frankly, though a short while back they have been way way too close. Trouble there was leaving a roundabout a bit earlier, the vehicle ahead had been a bit slow to accelerate and the problem child behind had closed up so much only bonnet length behind
I see a vehicle trying to emerge from the chip shop car park, they make a little lunge as if to emerge in front of the car ahead then stop. Vehicle ahead drives past.
I have full view of the vehicle on left, they me too, one behind too close again, when the car trying to emerge starts to lunge and move wheels clearly turning when I'm less than a vehicle length away. They get two short hoots as a warning and they stop. We drive slowly past as does vehicle behind and the ones behind them.
Passenger criticises the use of the horn saying nobody would actually pull out in that situation. So use of the horn simply creates antagonism is their argument.
My thoughts were simply they made a move, regardless of whether they intended to pull out, simply trying to bully their way out. Add in the danger from behind. Could I have done an ''Ashley Neal' and let the vehicle out and assisting to keeping their chips warm? Only by stopping and definitely risking a punt up the rear. Should I have slowed down gradually and opened up more of a gap? . Vision of entrance to left difficult earlier due to parked vehicles.
Passenger is one of those who previous experience says they never back down in any disagreement and frankly it's best just to shut up and move on. When I'm a passenger to them often keep quiet when seeing clear mistakes. So to be perfectly honest not much respect for their view on this.
Do your worst folks. No offence will be taken. What could have been done differently?
It seems you should have been slower. Realising there is a break in the buildings or parked cars(?), would suggest that a vehicle could emerge. It was seemingly a hazard rich area, with pedestrians, parked cars, doors opening, etc. Scenario, in a line of traffic, dark evening, cold and slightly damp road. Parked vehicles on nearside probably visiting a fish&chip shop. Lot of stuff going on around. There is an entrance on the left from the shop car park at the rear. Speed is about 20 ish near as dammit, limit 30 though that's irrelevant in this situation.
As stated in a line of traffic, I'm properly spaced behind the vehicle in front, say about 12 metres behind, but the one behind me bit close for comfort frankly, though a short while back they have been way way too close. Trouble there was leaving a roundabout a bit earlier, the vehicle ahead had been a bit slow to accelerate and the problem child behind had closed up so much only bonnet length behind
I see a vehicle trying to emerge from the chip shop car park, they make a little lunge as if to emerge in front of the car ahead then stop. Vehicle ahead drives past.
I have full view of the vehicle on left, they me too, one behind too close again, when the car trying to emerge starts to lunge and move wheels clearly turning when I'm less than a vehicle length away. They get two short hoots as a warning and they stop. We drive slowly past as does vehicle behind and the ones behind them.
Passenger criticises the use of the horn saying nobody would actually pull out in that situation. So use of the horn simply creates antagonism is their argument.
My thoughts were simply they made a move, regardless of whether they intended to pull out, simply trying to bully their way out. Add in the danger from behind. Could I have done an ''Ashley Neal' and let the vehicle out and assisting to keeping their chips warm? Only by stopping and definitely risking a punt up the rear. Should I have slowed down gradually and opened up more of a gap? . Vision of entrance to left difficult earlier due to parked vehicles.
Passenger is one of those who previous experience says they never back down in any disagreement and frankly it's best just to shut up and move on. When I'm a passenger to them often keep quiet when seeing clear mistakes. So to be perfectly honest not much respect for their view on this.
Do your worst folks. No offence will be taken. What could have been done differently?
I would suggest that you encourage a positive scenario behind you when outcomes, such as tailgating, could be less than optimal. I would reduce the speed and take control of the situation. Then, an emerging vehicle can exit by you encouraging them to do so. This is often a positive: the car following too closely gets to brake early and gently; the emerging vehicle is encouraged to exit; you are calm throughout, and your vehicle remains the same shape.
The use of the horn was correct in your instance, but I would have followed paragraph 2 and not necessitated its use, if I unstood the scenario correctly.
&PhilAsia
Fair comment and with benefit of hindsight maybe I should have been more prepared to control situation behind. That could have worsened the situation behind as they were clearly prepared to follow at a ridiculous close position.
Equally recognising that and driving for two would have opened up space in front and made anyone pulling out less of an issue.
Even so if someone is prepared to push out when you're less than a car length away nakes it awkward regardless.
Fair comment and with benefit of hindsight maybe I should have been more prepared to control situation behind. That could have worsened the situation behind as they were clearly prepared to follow at a ridiculous close position.
Equally recognising that and driving for two would have opened up space in front and made anyone pulling out less of an issue.
Even so if someone is prepared to push out when you're less than a car length away nakes it awkward regardless.
The tailgater behind you constrained your options throughout. With proper spacing behind, you'd have had more flexibility - maybe a gentle slow to create space, maybe even a safe stop to let the car out. The close following essentially locked you into maintaining momentum.
The horn use was justified by actual vehicle movement. Your passenger is viewing this with the benefit of hindsight ("they didn't actually pull out") while you had to respond to what was happening in real-time (they were pulling out until warned).
The horn use was justified by actual vehicle movement. Your passenger is viewing this with the benefit of hindsight ("they didn't actually pull out") while you had to respond to what was happening in real-time (they were pulling out until warned).
I see where you’re coming from and I respect your view. From my perspective though, the car had already started moving out when I was very close, and with someone right up behind me, a couple of short horn taps felt like the safest way to make my presence clear rather than braking sharply.
I appreciate that others might handle it differently, this is just how I read the situation at the time.
I appreciate that others might handle it differently, this is just how I read the situation at the time.
Blue_star said:
You didnt beep to correct someones driving, you beeped to attract attention to potential event. It was adequate. This is the purpose of beeping.
100% this I’ve done it numerous times and had varying reactions from “ohh thanks didn’t see you there” to being physically assaulted ( bloke who did that got a GBH record from that as this was early 90s and road rage was the hot new topic at the time) also context I’d passed the rear of his car and he was reversing out of a parking spot, I was however towing an empty motorcycle trailer which he would have hit if not tooted at.Further context he actually turned himself over to the Bib and pled guilty. Just a guy having a bad day but still no excuse.
FiF said:
Would appreciate feedback on a disagreement with a passenger recently.
…Passenger criticises the use of the horn saying nobody would actually pull out in that situation. So use of the horn simply creates antagonism is their argument.
You were absolutely right to do what you did. …Passenger criticises the use of the horn saying nobody would actually pull out in that situation. So use of the horn simply creates antagonism is their argument.
Just tell your passenger that their argument is facile, because it ignores the true complexities of the situation. They won’t thank you for it, but don’t worry, we all know it’s difficult arguing with someone who doesn’t see the whole picture.
Thank you all for all the feedback and positive comments. Suspect the passenger might not be so grateful but they're not reading this.
Have been thinking more, especially the approach to controlling the tailgater behind and in reading space in front particularly as they were so close that most of the time couldn't see their headlights.
Suspect that if there is a concern not to create an antagonistic situation with another driver which is more likely to do that, deliberately slow the tailgater probably, plus creating more space in front increases the likelihood of someone pulling out and increasing the risk from behind.
It's a tricky one, relieved it worked out OK.
Have been thinking more, especially the approach to controlling the tailgater behind and in reading space in front particularly as they were so close that most of the time couldn't see their headlights.
Suspect that if there is a concern not to create an antagonistic situation with another driver which is more likely to do that, deliberately slow the tailgater probably, plus creating more space in front increases the likelihood of someone pulling out and increasing the risk from behind.
It's a tricky one, relieved it worked out OK.
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