Primer for Xtracolour
Discussion
Hi folks I am about to lay on Xtracolour 356 "rescue yellow", which I swear is no more than the standard BS381 Golden Yellow with a trendy new name
But I digress, not unusual with me I'll admit
As the model's airframe is a rare assortment of hues over which the semitranslucent yellow is going to show flaws by the shipload and I'm using Xtra rather than an acrylic can someone advise whether to use a primer/undercoat of acrylic or enamel please
It will need to be dense enough to cover the black framing infill colour I've detailed the canopy interior and wants to be strong enough to withstand the "tear off" of the masking fluid
Any offers of advice would be more than welcome
The canopy is not lined yet in the first picture
Now it is
But I digress, not unusual with me I'll admit
As the model's airframe is a rare assortment of hues over which the semitranslucent yellow is going to show flaws by the shipload and I'm using Xtra rather than an acrylic can someone advise whether to use a primer/undercoat of acrylic or enamel please
It will need to be dense enough to cover the black framing infill colour I've detailed the canopy interior and wants to be strong enough to withstand the "tear off" of the masking fluid
Any offers of advice would be more than welcome
The canopy is not lined yet in the first picture
Now it is
Edited by perdu on Thursday 16th February 21:02
perdu said:
Hi folks I am about to lay on Xtracolour 356 "rescue yellow", which I swear is no more than the standard BS381 Golden Yellow with a trendy new name
But I digress, not unusual with me I'll admit
As the model's airframe is a rare assortment of hues over which the semitranslucent yellow is going to show flaws by the shipload and I'm using Xtra rather than an acrylic can someone advise whether to use a primer/undercoat of acrylic or enamel please
It will need to be dense enough to cover the black framing infill colour I've detailed the canopy interior and wants to be strong enough to withstand the "tear off" of the masking fluid
Any offers of advice would be more than welcome
The canopy is not lined yet in the first picture
Now it is
Can't you just use an Xtracolour matt yellow/beige as an undercoat?But I digress, not unusual with me I'll admit
As the model's airframe is a rare assortment of hues over which the semitranslucent yellow is going to show flaws by the shipload and I'm using Xtra rather than an acrylic can someone advise whether to use a primer/undercoat of acrylic or enamel please
It will need to be dense enough to cover the black framing infill colour I've detailed the canopy interior and wants to be strong enough to withstand the "tear off" of the masking fluid
Any offers of advice would be more than welcome
The canopy is not lined yet in the first picture
Now it is
Edited by perdu on Thursday 16th February 21:02
perdu said:
I don't have any.
But would you use acrylic or enamel?
I intend using white for the yellow undercoat, I think a darker shade would dull the base colour. But I am open to suggestion.
I have a couple of acrylic beige or buff colours but not in enamel.
You could always buy some!But would you use acrylic or enamel?
I intend using white for the yellow undercoat, I think a darker shade would dull the base colour. But I am open to suggestion.
I have a couple of acrylic beige or buff colours but not in enamel.
Look what happened to my S2000 when I made assumptions about paint...
After seeing what an acrylic base did to your top varnish I think I will stick to enamel under enamel. Maybe matt white under the gloss Xtracolour.
Soon be finished
Warning... Klear on acetate windows makes it very very difficult for Maskol to "stick"
The slightest touch encourages shiny places to sneak out from under.
Vac forming cockpit windows tomorrow, probably slip out to the shop for some Humbrol Whites too
And that RC models thick canopy glue looks worth a punt too.
Soon be finished
Warning... Klear on acetate windows makes it very very difficult for Maskol to "stick"
The slightest touch encourages shiny places to sneak out from under.
Vac forming cockpit windows tomorrow, probably slip out to the shop for some Humbrol Whites too
And that RC models thick canopy glue looks worth a punt too.
You'll be fine with Halfords rattle can primer. The nasty interactions of different types of paint are not always like for like, so whilst you might get a reaction with paint B on top of paint A, you will probably not get a reaction if paint A was on top of paint B.
I used Halford primer on the group build under Xtracrlix.
I used Halford primer on the group build under Xtracrlix.
Red Firecracker said:
You'll be fine with Halfords rattle can primer. The nasty interactions of different types of paint are not always like for like, so whilst you might get a reaction with paint B on top of paint A, you will probably not get a reaction if paint A was on top of paint B.
I used Halford primer on the group build under Xtracrlix.
Thanks for this, I am a bit worried because I'm using Xtracolour enamels, which is where my worries come inI used Halford primer on the group build under Xtracrlix.
I think I'm painting the fuselage with Humbrol Matt White enamels, trying to stay within paint types even if not the same make.
So you would use Halfords primer rattler, is that acrylic based like many paints these days? Or is it just the primer I used for my Mondeo's paint last autumn when I fixed some rusty wing edges?
One thing I am being careful of is the risk of swamping the added detail with an aerosol splatter can
Funilly enough, as I am building some airliners at the moment, I am having to use Xtracolour enamels as well (neither Hannants nor anybody else does airliner authentic paints in acrylic), I am finding that they do not adhere as well to Halfords primer as their Xtracrylic paints do. I've had a couple of issues with paint lifting following removal of masking tape on my 737 and the Connie.
Here I am after 45 years of nodelling still finding out what works and what doesn't work.
Here I am after 45 years of nodelling still finding out what works and what doesn't work.
Thanks for that info Eric
Sounds as if Humbrol white enamels is the way to go then
Its going to be odd making a very glossy Xtracolour get down to a satin which will make a decent scaled effect gloss
Much fun coming along this week, paint the external detailing. Steps, winch and inflator bottles to be added after painting though I might add the cabin door step before the paint job.
Sounds as if Humbrol white enamels is the way to go then
Its going to be odd making a very glossy Xtracolour get down to a satin which will make a decent scaled effect gloss
Much fun coming along this week, paint the external detailing. Steps, winch and inflator bottles to be added after painting though I might add the cabin door step before the paint job.
How much are you thinning the Xtracolor, Eric? Paint adhesion issue such as you are describing, especially with enamels, can sometimes be put down to a thinning issue.
If you're unsure, perdu, I'd just go for a matt Xtracolor base in either white or light grey. Enamels are one of those paints where you can get by without a primer, if your prep is good enough (but that goes for all painting, of course).
If you're unsure, perdu, I'd just go for a matt Xtracolor base in either white or light grey. Enamels are one of those paints where you can get by without a primer, if your prep is good enough (but that goes for all painting, of course).
Regarding thinning of Xtracolour, I admit I'm on a bit of a learning curve with it. I bought Xtracolour's own thinner rather than relying on a generic white spirit or thiner as I usually think the manufacturer's thinners works best with their own paints.
I normally calculate my thiner/paint ratio by consistency rather than any atempt to accurately measure. I think my first attempts may have been over thinned.
I normally calculate my thiner/paint ratio by consistency rather than any atempt to accurately measure. I think my first attempts may have been over thinned.
Well we will soon see whether matt Humbrol was the right choice of primer
I have put a fine coat on now to disclose the Bad Bits and 1000 gradee Mr Surfacer applied and waiting a gentle rub over from K&S sanding films fine and ultra fine should sort out the surface finish issues after I sort out the slots, holes and generally massive caverns in the surface
I have put a fine coat on now to disclose the Bad Bits and 1000 gradee Mr Surfacer applied and waiting a gentle rub over from K&S sanding films fine and ultra fine should sort out the surface finish issues after I sort out the slots, holes and generally massive caverns in the surface
not very happy with this any more, I might just strip the lot and try again
I made a transfer for the fuselage side, DANGER HIGH VOLTGE AERIAL
on white transfer paper, which is another "not over pleased" item. A certainty to have another go in Inkscape for a repetition...
which looks like this on plastic
It looks better in the flesh but I am not pleased with it and it will need to be re-done, I cut too close to the lower line of lettering and am hoping that the edges of the decals will fade away under Humbrol's Satin Varnish for enamels
I had a couple of shots at it on my sheet seen here with a load of stencilling that are not given on the Modeldecals sheet
ho hum back to the proverbial dra...
I made a transfer for the fuselage side, DANGER HIGH VOLTGE AERIAL
on white transfer paper, which is another "not over pleased" item. A certainty to have another go in Inkscape for a repetition...
which looks like this on plastic
It looks better in the flesh but I am not pleased with it and it will need to be re-done, I cut too close to the lower line of lettering and am hoping that the edges of the decals will fade away under Humbrol's Satin Varnish for enamels
I had a couple of shots at it on my sheet seen here with a load of stencilling that are not given on the Modeldecals sheet
ho hum back to the proverbial dra...
Looking at the image you created, it looks like the detail has been reduced through compression, unless that was done by thumbsnap.
I created the same image in Inkscape, I'll give you a quick tutorial of the steps that you will need and will find useful.
To create the red background, use F4 or click on the icon on the left below the magnifying glass, it looks like a shaded square. This will allow you to draw squares and rectangles by holding the left mouse button and dragging the mouse.
To resize the rectangle at any time, click on the cursor arrow top left from the screen, you will see black arrows around it (not Hunters). By holding the left button and dragging these arrows the size can be changed. Hold shift whilst dragging to make the rectangle expand from the centre only and hold control while dragging to keep the proportions as the rectangle is scaled.
It is also possible to move the rectangle by left clicking on it and dragging it.
The resizing and moving methods will also work with most other shapes and with text.
If you make a mistake press 'Control + Z' to undo it.
To change the colour of the rectangle, first select the rectangle by left clicking on it, then you can select a colour from the row at the bottom of the screen or click on the menu option 'Object' then click on 'Fill and Stroke'. This opens a new window with 3 tabs, the Fill tab allows you to select the fill colour more finely, you also want to make sure you select the 'Flat colour' icon at the top.
The Stroke Paint tab allows you to set the outline colour, but it's not needed for this so click the cross icon at the top to remove any outline.
Now for the text, either press F8 or click the 'A' icon on the left of the screen. Then click where you want the text to start and type it in, don't worry if it's in the wrong place, or the wrong size or font, it can be changed at any time.
At the top left of the screen select the font you want and font size and whether it needs to be bold/italic etc. You can move and rescale the text in the same way as you can the rectangle, the colours are change in the same was as well.
If you want to select all the objects, you can just click on the arrow icon at the top left of the screen and drag a box around them. Now any modifications you make will affect all the object, such as scaling.
One useful tip I will add is the 'align' function. If you want to centre the 'DANGER' text horizontally in the rectangle, select the rectangle, hold shift and then click on the text as well, this will select both of them simultaneously. Now click on the 'Object' menu and the 'Align and Distribute' option, this opens a window so you can select how you want to centre the objects. In this case you want the text spaced equally from both sides of the rectangle so in the 'Align' panel click the third icon from the left on the top row, 'Centre on a vertical axis'.
When you are finally scaling the decal to the correct size, at the top of the screen dimensions are given for the selected object, W and H, (width and height). Make sure you select the type of measurement correctly though, default is 'px' (pixels) which is useless for this application, change it to mm or your preferred metric. Now you can scale the object to the correct proportions ready for printing.
With that information you should be able to create basic signage for decals, Inkscape is actually a pretty powerful package, there are plenty of functions I don't know how to use. The best way to learn about it is to experiment and use the manual.
Looking at your decal, it looks quite thick, I use Expert's Choice, it's pretty thin and doesn't stand too proud from the surface, in the past I've even used two decals over each other so the upper decal looked less faded. The other thing is to use a really sharp knife when cutting them out as the edge is critical.
http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/EC121
When you print them, IIRC the best results come from the highest print settings available, so 'best photo print' mode I think. Because of different printer/driver settings it's difficult to give advice here.
I hope that helps, if you have any other questions just post them here and I will try to answer them.
I created the same image in Inkscape, I'll give you a quick tutorial of the steps that you will need and will find useful.
To create the red background, use F4 or click on the icon on the left below the magnifying glass, it looks like a shaded square. This will allow you to draw squares and rectangles by holding the left mouse button and dragging the mouse.
To resize the rectangle at any time, click on the cursor arrow top left from the screen, you will see black arrows around it (not Hunters
). By holding the left button and dragging these arrows the size can be changed. Hold shift whilst dragging to make the rectangle expand from the centre only and hold control while dragging to keep the proportions as the rectangle is scaled.It is also possible to move the rectangle by left clicking on it and dragging it.
The resizing and moving methods will also work with most other shapes and with text.
If you make a mistake press 'Control + Z' to undo it.
To change the colour of the rectangle, first select the rectangle by left clicking on it, then you can select a colour from the row at the bottom of the screen or click on the menu option 'Object' then click on 'Fill and Stroke'. This opens a new window with 3 tabs, the Fill tab allows you to select the fill colour more finely, you also want to make sure you select the 'Flat colour' icon at the top.
The Stroke Paint tab allows you to set the outline colour, but it's not needed for this so click the cross icon at the top to remove any outline.
Now for the text, either press F8 or click the 'A' icon on the left of the screen. Then click where you want the text to start and type it in, don't worry if it's in the wrong place, or the wrong size or font, it can be changed at any time.
At the top left of the screen select the font you want and font size and whether it needs to be bold/italic etc. You can move and rescale the text in the same way as you can the rectangle, the colours are change in the same was as well.
If you want to select all the objects, you can just click on the arrow icon at the top left of the screen and drag a box around them. Now any modifications you make will affect all the object, such as scaling.
One useful tip I will add is the 'align' function. If you want to centre the 'DANGER' text horizontally in the rectangle, select the rectangle, hold shift and then click on the text as well, this will select both of them simultaneously. Now click on the 'Object' menu and the 'Align and Distribute' option, this opens a window so you can select how you want to centre the objects. In this case you want the text spaced equally from both sides of the rectangle so in the 'Align' panel click the third icon from the left on the top row, 'Centre on a vertical axis'.
When you are finally scaling the decal to the correct size, at the top of the screen dimensions are given for the selected object, W and H, (width and height). Make sure you select the type of measurement correctly though, default is 'px' (pixels) which is useless for this application, change it to mm or your preferred metric. Now you can scale the object to the correct proportions ready for printing.
With that information you should be able to create basic signage for decals, Inkscape is actually a pretty powerful package, there are plenty of functions I don't know how to use. The best way to learn about it is to experiment and use the manual.
Looking at your decal, it looks quite thick, I use Expert's Choice, it's pretty thin and doesn't stand too proud from the surface, in the past I've even used two decals over each other so the upper decal looked less faded. The other thing is to use a really sharp knife when cutting them out as the edge is critical.
http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/EC121
When you print them, IIRC the best results come from the highest print settings available, so 'best photo print' mode I think. Because of different printer/driver settings it's difficult to give advice here.
I hope that helps, if you have any other questions just post them here and I will try to answer them.
Edited by SlipStream77 on Sunday 11th March 00:03
Slipstream thanks I will check all that out I think i may have a new take on my lifelong hobby. Cheers
RF also thanks I had already come to that conclusion
But no worries, I may impose decals printed on "Expert's choice clear" over a small white patch rather as Chris Jephcott did on Britmodeller with the Bambi tarnsfer I made for him, it works well. If I space it right...
I am very grateful for the advice from both of you on "decalcomanies" and from our other friends here who are always happy to help and advise
cheers
bill
RF also thanks I had already come to that conclusion
But no worries, I may impose decals printed on "Expert's choice clear" over a small white patch rather as Chris Jephcott did on Britmodeller with the Bambi tarnsfer I made for him, it works well. If I space it right...
I am very grateful for the advice from both of you on "decalcomanies" and from our other friends here who are always happy to help and advise
cheers
bill
Looking at your applied picture again, the reason the red has bled is that you have cut, by necessity, to close to the print. Even though you have sealed the decals, if you cut right upto the print, water will wick between the print and clear and give you the effect you have there.
If you get stuck drop me the artwork and I'll ALPS them for you.
If you get stuck drop me the artwork and I'll ALPS them for you.
RF thanks I may need to call on your expertise if double layering doesn't work
I looked up ALPS and was amazed, the only non inkjetty way of making transfers when I was an apprentice (failed!) was to litho over a carrier film all printed with Cellon Inks and Varnishes then top coated to make them strong
How things have changed
I am about to reprint on clear film with a couple of white masking panels for the reds yellows and whites to sit on
I am almost ready to strip the lot and play again
This week will be make or break with the colour coating and varnishes
I looked up ALPS and was amazed, the only non inkjetty way of making transfers when I was an apprentice (failed!) was to litho over a carrier film all printed with Cellon Inks and Varnishes then top coated to make them strong
How things have changed
I am about to reprint on clear film with a couple of white masking panels for the reds yellows and whites to sit on
I am almost ready to strip the lot and play again
This week will be make or break with the colour coating and varnishes
Well it seems that double layering worked a treat
I printed on clear Experts Choice with a sliver of white EC under the lettering part and it was a "hey presto moment"
As I have printed loads of stencilling and the other markings in MS Word, as back up if anything goes wrong (as if!) I may still strip the paint off and start finishing again with a decent aerosol primer under the Xtracolour
We shall see
It sounds a bit of a bugger to use your ALPS so I'm glad not to be contributing to the demise of a declining technology
I wish I could see it working though, just to campare with my days in the transfer trade (we didnt ever use the term decals
)
I printed on clear Experts Choice with a sliver of white EC under the lettering part and it was a "hey presto moment"
As I have printed loads of stencilling and the other markings in MS Word, as back up if anything goes wrong (as if!) I may still strip the paint off and start finishing again with a decent aerosol primer under the Xtracolour
We shall see
It sounds a bit of a bugger to use your ALPS so I'm glad not to be contributing to the demise of a declining technology
I wish I could see it working though, just to campare with my days in the transfer trade (we didnt ever use the term decals
)Gassing Station | Scale Models | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff