ACHTUNG PANZER!
Discussion
Was bored so thought I would share a few pics of the 8 tanks I competed in 12 days building, all are 1/35th scale mostly Tamiya.
Sadly the camera on the iPhone is crap and even in daylight can't pick-up any light or show any of the weathering detail which makes them look a bit flat and toy like but I think they still look fairly good.
Panzer IV Ausf H, w/ Photo etched parts and Shurzen panels I made myself modelled on period photo's (hence the missing panel)
Panzer II w/ added sandbags.
Tiger 1 (Panzer VI) the tracks had degraded in the box so I had to use the spare tracks from the KV set, hence them looking wrong.
Another Tiger, this one is a model of Tiger 131 thee only working Tiger that is now at the Bovington Tank museum
Panther (Panzer V) Have given this the seldom seen 'Splinter' camo' scheme and is probably the least accurate model but I wanted to do something different.
Sherman
Russian KV 'Big Turret' 150mm gun monted in a massive turret on a KV chassis to make a 'breakthrough' tank.
probably the best weathering I did but it hardly shows up in the picture.
Panzer III Ausf N w/ photo etched grills and Aluminium gun barrel, the nicest model I have built and the one I spent most time on.
Sadly the camera on the iPhone is crap and even in daylight can't pick-up any light or show any of the weathering detail which makes them look a bit flat and toy like but I think they still look fairly good.
Panzer IV Ausf H, w/ Photo etched parts and Shurzen panels I made myself modelled on period photo's (hence the missing panel)
Panzer II w/ added sandbags.
Tiger 1 (Panzer VI) the tracks had degraded in the box so I had to use the spare tracks from the KV set, hence them looking wrong.
Another Tiger, this one is a model of Tiger 131 thee only working Tiger that is now at the Bovington Tank museum
Panther (Panzer V) Have given this the seldom seen 'Splinter' camo' scheme and is probably the least accurate model but I wanted to do something different.
Sherman
Russian KV 'Big Turret' 150mm gun monted in a massive turret on a KV chassis to make a 'breakthrough' tank.
probably the best weathering I did but it hardly shows up in the picture.
Panzer III Ausf N w/ photo etched grills and Aluminium gun barrel, the nicest model I have built and the one I spent most time on.
Edited by T89 Callan on Monday 5th October 18:58
Thanks for posting these- and it's so refreshing to see a modeler using weathering techniques to attain the correct look. I find this essential.
It gets tiring to see so many vehicles (cars included) and aircraft, albeit wonderfully constructed and painted, but all looking as if they have that minute rolled out of a spray shop.
I especially like the presence of rust and dirt on the Sherman. It really tones down those decals and blends them into scale (it just wouldn't look correct were the bright white left alone after their application). I would, though, prefer to see more muck or dust on the wheels and tracks but can appreciate the fact that overdoing weathering can have a counter effect.
The crew figures look good too. Not the easiest scale to paint human faces, let alone eyes. You have avoided that 'pop-eyed' look that many painters end up with, as you haven't put a dark dot over a white one. In that scale, the 'whites' of the eyes are correctly not noticeable.
Erm, I've just realised I sound a bit patronising. Not my intention at all.
Coincidently, I've never seen a model of the KV before but read this morning that, unbeknownst to Hitler's spies, Stalin had already built 600 of them before the 1941 invasion. They gave the Nazis a real jolt!
It gets tiring to see so many vehicles (cars included) and aircraft, albeit wonderfully constructed and painted, but all looking as if they have that minute rolled out of a spray shop.
I especially like the presence of rust and dirt on the Sherman. It really tones down those decals and blends them into scale (it just wouldn't look correct were the bright white left alone after their application). I would, though, prefer to see more muck or dust on the wheels and tracks but can appreciate the fact that overdoing weathering can have a counter effect.
The crew figures look good too. Not the easiest scale to paint human faces, let alone eyes. You have avoided that 'pop-eyed' look that many painters end up with, as you haven't put a dark dot over a white one. In that scale, the 'whites' of the eyes are correctly not noticeable.
Erm, I've just realised I sound a bit patronising. Not my intention at all.
Coincidently, I've never seen a model of the KV before but read this morning that, unbeknownst to Hitler's spies, Stalin had already built 600 of them before the 1941 invasion. They gave the Nazis a real jolt!
Edited by kenny Chim 4 on Monday 5th October 23:35
No not patronising at all mate.
The main thing I try to do is think how the vehicles would have actually weathered, alot of 'weathered' model although skillfully done don't look realistic to me.
I try to think about were rust would start, i.e in the weld seems were water would sit or around the exhaust were the paint would have burnt off.
I especially like the Panzer III, I read up on how they were comoflaged and turns out that whitewhash was just slapped over them in winter, so I was trying to get a splashed/poured look. Then I tried to work out how the crew would have climbed over the tank with muddy boots and then 'muddy up' those areas.
With regard to the faces I don't actually paint any detail, I paint over them in a decent skin tone and then when dry just wipe a brown weathering dust over the face wich just picks out the shadows. Light does the rest.
Wheels I find are the most difficult bit for me, the Sherman doesn't have enough wheel weathering whereas the KV has too much, although the iPhone doesn't pick it up.
I really tried to go for 'battle scarred' on the KV, here are some closer pics.
The main thing I try to do is think how the vehicles would have actually weathered, alot of 'weathered' model although skillfully done don't look realistic to me.
I try to think about were rust would start, i.e in the weld seems were water would sit or around the exhaust were the paint would have burnt off.
I especially like the Panzer III, I read up on how they were comoflaged and turns out that whitewhash was just slapped over them in winter, so I was trying to get a splashed/poured look. Then I tried to work out how the crew would have climbed over the tank with muddy boots and then 'muddy up' those areas.
With regard to the faces I don't actually paint any detail, I paint over them in a decent skin tone and then when dry just wipe a brown weathering dust over the face wich just picks out the shadows. Light does the rest.
Wheels I find are the most difficult bit for me, the Sherman doesn't have enough wheel weathering whereas the KV has too much, although the iPhone doesn't pick it up.
I really tried to go for 'battle scarred' on the KV, here are some closer pics.
Weathering is a bit of a thorny issue. On AFVs it would be expected and always looks good.
Aircraft are a different matter and there has been a trend in recent years for excessive weathering. The important thing with aeroplanes is to study, if at all possible, a picture of the aircraft you are modelling to ascertain how much weathering is required.
Weathering varies enormously on planes.
Aircraft are a different matter and there has been a trend in recent years for excessive weathering. The important thing with aeroplanes is to study, if at all possible, a picture of the aircraft you are modelling to ascertain how much weathering is required.
Weathering varies enormously on planes.
Eric Mc said:
Weathering is a bit of a thorny issue. On AFVs it would be expected and always looks good.
Aircraft are a different matter and there has been a trend in recent years for excessive weathering. The important thing with aeroplanes is to study, if at all possible, a picture of the aircraft you are modelling to ascertain how much weathering is required.
Weathering varies enormously on planes.
This intrigued me (someone posted the link on the Globemaster build thread):Aircraft are a different matter and there has been a trend in recent years for excessive weathering. The important thing with aeroplanes is to study, if at all possible, a picture of the aircraft you are modelling to ascertain how much weathering is required.
Weathering varies enormously on planes.
http://www.scalespot.com/ - look at the Globemaster build pictures.
The guy is clearly a fantastic modeller (way out of my league). He went to the trouble of looking at reference pictures, scratchbuilding various details etc, etc, but then, IMO, ruined it by putting 'cartoon' panel lines on it, to the extent it looks nothing like his own photographs of the actual aircraft:
Why would he do this? It would look more realistic with no panel lining at all to be honest, because the base colour is way too light to start with. It's as if it is now fashionable to use this technique, and so must be done on every model to an extreme degree. I only picked this up because of my obvious interest in other people's Globemaster models.
What do you make of it?
Inever like to see aircraft where the builder has sprayed dark lines over the panel joins before completing the painting. It never looks right to me. Nor does painting in fine black lines along the joins because if you stand more than a few feet away from the real aircraft you don't see them. The best way (although the most time consuming and the most difficult to get right) is to do each panel a slightly different colour. And I do mean slightly as it is very easy to overdo.
The first time I saw this "preshading" technique being used I was initially impressed.
However, on reflection, I now think it can be way excessive. I've not tried it myself on any of my models but I might give it a go just to see how it comes out. My hunch is that it MIGHT work if the preshading is VERY subtle.
However, on reflection, I now think it can be way excessive. I've not tried it myself on any of my models but I might give it a go just to see how it comes out. My hunch is that it MIGHT work if the preshading is VERY subtle.
Evangelion said:
Inever like to see aircraft where the builder has sprayed dark lines over the panel joins before completing the painting. It never looks right to me. Nor does painting in fine black lines along the joins because if you stand more than a few feet away from the real aircraft you don't see them. The best way (although the most time consuming and the most difficult to get right) is to do each panel a slightly different colour. And I do mean slightly as it is very easy to overdo.
It all depends on the condition of the aircraft. You can see the panel lines and subtle darkening around the panel lines here:
What I'm saying is that on for example, a 1:72 scale model, if the panel lines are 0.1mm wide, then obviously that equates to 7.5mm on the real aircraft, which is more than an order of magnitude larger than reality. On a brand new Super Hornet you'd struggle to fit a razor blade between the panel gaps even on the hinged panels. It doesn't stop dirt getting ingrained into whatever gaps there are, and subsequently darkening the surrounding areas. This effect I think is best replicated by preshading and lining, but in a very low contrast way rather than the scale 10mm lines you see on some models.
Got to agree about the weathering on the Globemaster being OTT - never understood why it seems to be the accepted norm.
Most amusing conversation I heard about incorrect weathering was of a Challenger-based ARV done for Op Granby seen at an IPMS show. One visitor was giving the displayed model a good examination which pleased the modeller displaying it, until he was asked "why all the rust streaks?"
Cue "discussion" about the weathering being correct, the visitor saying it wasn't - it should be bare shiny metal on the wear patches due to no rain etc. to cause rust. Visitor then played the trump card "I should know, you've modelled my old vehicle!" and pulled out a photo of him & his crew sat on the real thing!
Most amusing conversation I heard about incorrect weathering was of a Challenger-based ARV done for Op Granby seen at an IPMS show. One visitor was giving the displayed model a good examination which pleased the modeller displaying it, until he was asked "why all the rust streaks?"
Cue "discussion" about the weathering being correct, the visitor saying it wasn't - it should be bare shiny metal on the wear patches due to no rain etc. to cause rust. Visitor then played the trump card "I should know, you've modelled my old vehicle!" and pulled out a photo of him & his crew sat on the real thing!
Steve_W said:
Got to agree about the weathering on the Globemaster being OTT - never understood why it seems to be the accepted norm.
Most amusing conversation I heard about incorrect weathering was of a Challenger-based ARV done for Op Granby seen at an IPMS show. One visitor was giving the displayed model a good examination which pleased the modeller displaying it, until he was asked "why all the rust streaks?"
Cue "discussion" about the weathering being correct, the visitor saying it wasn't - it should be bare shiny metal on the wear patches due to no rain etc. to cause rust. Visitor then played the trump card "I should know, you've modelled my old vehicle!" and pulled out a photo of him & his crew sat on the real thing!
At which point the modeller shot him.Most amusing conversation I heard about incorrect weathering was of a Challenger-based ARV done for Op Granby seen at an IPMS show. One visitor was giving the displayed model a good examination which pleased the modeller displaying it, until he was asked "why all the rust streaks?"
Cue "discussion" about the weathering being correct, the visitor saying it wasn't - it should be bare shiny metal on the wear patches due to no rain etc. to cause rust. Visitor then played the trump card "I should know, you've modelled my old vehicle!" and pulled out a photo of him & his crew sat on the real thing!
At the end of the day, if a model looks good, it looks good. The Globemaster mentioned above with the black panel lines does indeed look very good, if not particularly realistic.
I have a grey scheme Tornado with no lining or weathering at all, and, even though it might be the most realistic finish in reality it looks much worse than my X-32 with its overscale and high contrast pencilled panel lines, which in turn looks worse than the latest Globemaster with its preshaded and washed lines and tinted panels.
I always take the opportunity to look at real aircraft to see how they are weathered, and some look even worse than even the most excessively weathered model - even relatively new commercial aircraft. In some cases I think to myself that if a model were weathered to that degree, it would look totally wrong! Natural finish or grey wing surfaces seem to suffer from quite obvious staining and streaking of dirt, and many have surprisingly bad panel fits resulting in gaps of several mm.
There you go.
I have a grey scheme Tornado with no lining or weathering at all, and, even though it might be the most realistic finish in reality it looks much worse than my X-32 with its overscale and high contrast pencilled panel lines, which in turn looks worse than the latest Globemaster with its preshaded and washed lines and tinted panels.
I always take the opportunity to look at real aircraft to see how they are weathered, and some look even worse than even the most excessively weathered model - even relatively new commercial aircraft. In some cases I think to myself that if a model were weathered to that degree, it would look totally wrong! Natural finish or grey wing surfaces seem to suffer from quite obvious staining and streaking of dirt, and many have surprisingly bad panel fits resulting in gaps of several mm.
There you go.
I find that a pencil is a good weathering tool and works particularly well on matt finish paint.
Cheers for the comments on the KV guys, this was my first attempt at battle scarred effect, I used a soldering Iron to get the dents and shell holes.
I didn't want to practice battle scarring any of my Tamiya tanks as they were more expensive than the KV (which I nicked from my Grandad).
I'm thinking maybe a British Cromwell tank next.
Cheers for the comments on the KV guys, this was my first attempt at battle scarred effect, I used a soldering Iron to get the dents and shell holes.
I didn't want to practice battle scarring any of my Tamiya tanks as they were more expensive than the KV (which I nicked from my Grandad).
I'm thinking maybe a British Cromwell tank next.
T89 Callan said:
I find that a pencil is a good weathering tool and works particularly well on matt finish paint.
Cheers for the comments on the KV guys, this was my first attempt at battle scarred effect, I used a soldering Iron to get the dents and shell holes.
I didn't want to practice battle scarring any of my Tamiya tanks as they were more expensive than the KV (which I nicked from my Grandad).
I'm thinking maybe a British Cromwell tank next.
Was the KV a Trumpeter kit? Saw one at the LMS this lunchtime.Cheers for the comments on the KV guys, this was my first attempt at battle scarred effect, I used a soldering Iron to get the dents and shell holes.
I didn't want to practice battle scarring any of my Tamiya tanks as they were more expensive than the KV (which I nicked from my Grandad).
I'm thinking maybe a British Cromwell tank next.
dr_gn said:
T89 Callan said:
I find that a pencil is a good weathering tool and works particularly well on matt finish paint.
Cheers for the comments on the KV guys, this was my first attempt at battle scarred effect, I used a soldering Iron to get the dents and shell holes.
I didn't want to practice battle scarring any of my Tamiya tanks as they were more expensive than the KV (which I nicked from my Grandad).
I'm thinking maybe a British Cromwell tank next.
Was the KV a Trumpeter kit? Saw one at the LMS this lunchtime.Cheers for the comments on the KV guys, this was my first attempt at battle scarred effect, I used a soldering Iron to get the dents and shell holes.
I didn't want to practice battle scarring any of my Tamiya tanks as they were more expensive than the KV (which I nicked from my Grandad).
I'm thinking maybe a British Cromwell tank next.
My only gripe was the lack of a figure.
T89 Callan said:
My only gripe was the lack of a figure.
How about this pair of KV crew:http://www.hlj.com/product/MIGMP35-044
Those updated shots of the tank look great btw.
I think the weathering debate shall continue (as it should) with folk making up their own minds as to how much is applied to which kit they are rendering. I'd like to again thank the OP for posting as it has raised this interesting subject again.
For example, if I were to model a road or racing car in, say, 1/24 scale, I would cut two half-moon masking tape shapes, apply them to the windscreen and then airbrush a diluted 'light dust' colour to replicate the surface residue that wipers don't remove.
Similarly, very few tyres are actually dead (or jet) black. In direct sunshine, most give off a dark brown tone- with the treads appearing lighter than the walls.
kenny Chim 4 said:
T89 Callan said:
My only gripe was the lack of a figure.
How about this pair of KV crew:http://www.hlj.com/product/MIGMP35-044
Those updated shots of the tank look great btw.
I think the weathering debate shall continue (as it should) with folk making up their own minds as to how much is applied to which kit they are rendering. I'd like to again thank the OP for posting as it has raised this interesting subject again.
For example, if I were to model a road or racing car in, say, 1/24 scale, I would cut two half-moon masking tape shapes, apply them to the windscreen and then airbrush a diluted 'light dust' colour to replicate the surface residue that wipers don't remove.
Similarly, very few tyres are actually dead (or jet) black. In direct sunshine, most give off a dark brown tone- with the treads appearing lighter than the walls.
I did this one:
Surely whether a racing car is built dirty or clean depends entirely on the context of how the modeller wants to depict it. I saw some Le Mans models recently which had been painted and "weathered" to show the cars after they had finished the 24 hour race. In other words, they were covered in muck and grime, with just the racing numbers wiped clean.
I agree Eric, here's a nicely weathered 1/8 scale Sauber Mercedes C9:
http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1-18-Exoto-Sauber-Mercedes-...
Most of what appears as dirt on the car actually replicates the build up of rubber thrown off competing cars but the pit crew would wipe clean the badge on the nose at each fuel stop.
http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1-18-Exoto-Sauber-Mercedes-...
Most of what appears as dirt on the car actually replicates the build up of rubber thrown off competing cars but the pit crew would wipe clean the badge on the nose at each fuel stop.
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