OpenMoko - any hackers here?
Discussion
Whilst I'm somewhat fond of Apple products, this is purely for the OS and the combination of unix goodness with a properly designed UI (and the availability of MS Office natively...) - however I'm not a narrow minded zealot.
Linux is starting to catch up (on the desktop - the kernel was always faster than xnu/Darwin) and given my love of hackable smartphones, I've been following the 'pure' open-source phone effort - OpenMoko
It appears that the hardware isn't stable yet and the software is unusable early-alpha stuff. Anyone here more of a hacker than me who's a Linux expert had a go with one of these yet? $450 for the entire kit including debug / JTAG boards is, with current exchange rates, a bargain if the hardware is usable.
It appears to have all the features the iPhone lacks, the question is whether the hardware is debugged. After all, getting an early device with good hardware but duff software isn't a problem - the software can be updated - but if there's a serious hardware bug then the only real option for non-EEs like myself is to buy another unit.
Anyone playing with one of these right now? Given previous experience hacking custom Linux kernels for small laptops, the biggest issue is power management and Linux always used to give shite battery life - on a smartphone this is utterly crucial so it'd be interesting to see whether the state of the kernel is anywhere near Apple / Microsoft / Symbian efforts...
Linux is starting to catch up (on the desktop - the kernel was always faster than xnu/Darwin) and given my love of hackable smartphones, I've been following the 'pure' open-source phone effort - OpenMoko
It appears that the hardware isn't stable yet and the software is unusable early-alpha stuff. Anyone here more of a hacker than me who's a Linux expert had a go with one of these yet? $450 for the entire kit including debug / JTAG boards is, with current exchange rates, a bargain if the hardware is usable.
It appears to have all the features the iPhone lacks, the question is whether the hardware is debugged. After all, getting an early device with good hardware but duff software isn't a problem - the software can be updated - but if there's a serious hardware bug then the only real option for non-EEs like myself is to buy another unit.
Anyone playing with one of these right now? Given previous experience hacking custom Linux kernels for small laptops, the biggest issue is power management and Linux always used to give shite battery life - on a smartphone this is utterly crucial so it'd be interesting to see whether the state of the kernel is anywhere near Apple / Microsoft / Symbian efforts...
Certaintly
Now this, brings out the geek in me.
The basic components such as the dialler, contacts manager etc are all going to be shipped with the operating system, however they will be open so can be extended at will by developers.
Look at the names on board with it, there is a super duper killer app in there somewhere, this platform will almost certaintly allow the exploration of the concept of location based P2P services further than ever before.
/sandals
Now this, brings out the geek in me.
The basic components such as the dialler, contacts manager etc are all going to be shipped with the operating system, however they will be open so can be extended at will by developers.
Look at the names on board with it, there is a super duper killer app in there somewhere, this platform will almost certaintly allow the exploration of the concept of location based P2P services further than ever before.
/sandals
Plotloss said:
Certaintly
Now this, brings out the geek in me.
The basic components such as the dialler, contacts manager etc are all going to be shipped with the operating system, however they will be open so can be extended at will by developers.
Look at the names on board with it, there is a super duper killer app in there somewhere, this platform will almost certaintly allow the exploration of the concept of location based P2P services further than ever before.
/sandals
Woah. They are serious.Now this, brings out the geek in me.
The basic components such as the dialler, contacts manager etc are all going to be shipped with the operating system, however they will be open so can be extended at will by developers.
Look at the names on board with it, there is a super duper killer app in there somewhere, this platform will almost certaintly allow the exploration of the concept of location based P2P services further than ever before.
/sandals
So Nov 12th sees the initial SDK with presumably the necessary info for handset manufacturers to build devices that will support the proposed 'Android' software stack, right?
This will presumably kill off OpenMoko entirely unless their hardware (the Neo1973 whatsit) can support the OSA kernel and userland. I'd hope that this is the case, since the Apache v2 licence means that the big handset players can implement OSA with proprietary extensions (which could be DRM to prevent third-party code to run - totally against the spirit of the licence but probably legal) - the Moko guys could still be in with a business if they make the Neo handset work with OSA code and then keep everything open and non-proprietary...
The interesting thing will be getting around regulatory issues relating to GSM and network usage - if the code is fully open then you can do all sorts of network abuse crap that simply won't be tolerated. The OpenMoko codebase has two components that are closed-source binary-only - for the GSM radio and 3G IIRC.
Thanks for that - that's got the geek in me fired up too
I'd have thought that the radio will be firmware based as it will depend on geographic location to an extent, possibly with a methods interface to dial etc, all the handshaking and network metrics I would have thought will remain hidden.
So entirely open from 'layer 2' down I suspect.
So entirely open from 'layer 2' down I suspect.
I have been following this project but will am nowhere near good enough with linux to use one. It does however look pretty good and I would be tempted once it gets stable which was due to be done last month.
I'm more interested in the Asus P701 at the moment as far as the next likely device I would want to spend on but will need to sell some things to afford it.
I'm more interested in the Asus P701 at the moment as far as the next likely device I would want to spend on but will need to sell some things to afford it.
OMG Google delivered. SDK for 'Android' now available with emulator.
Linux kernel, but (and this is fascinating) they've chosen WebKit (i.e. what runs on OS X - and the iPhone) as the browser platform for their OS... it's looking a bit like iPhone OS X 2.0 to me...
Downloading now, will see how mature it is (it's meant to be an 'early look' SDK) - the documentation on their site makes the back end look awfully similar to the underpinnings of the iPhone though
As such, it looks to me like Google's Android phone OS is going to be much more a competitor to Symbian and Windows Mobile than the iPhone... interesting times ahead!!!
Linux kernel, but (and this is fascinating) they've chosen WebKit (i.e. what runs on OS X - and the iPhone) as the browser platform for their OS... it's looking a bit like iPhone OS X 2.0 to me...
Downloading now, will see how mature it is (it's meant to be an 'early look' SDK) - the documentation on their site makes the back end look awfully similar to the underpinnings of the iPhone though
As such, it looks to me like Google's Android phone OS is going to be much more a competitor to Symbian and Windows Mobile than the iPhone... interesting times ahead!!!
I think, I will be getting one of these in january, when the next hardware revision comes out. I'm more looking for the 'advanced user' package rather than the developer one, and as such it's $150 cheaper. With the weak dollar at the moment, it's looking like a great time for this thing to come out!
Edited by Tonsko on Tuesday 13th November 15:44
Tonsko said:
Although, having just read that android site more thoroughly, the cash bonus might well cause the openMoko to be killed off. Shame.
It remains to be seen... OpenMoko appears to be an open hardware platform as well - the hardware has been chosen to be well documented and easy to write device drivers for etc. whereas the software is currently very immature and, in their words, 'unusable'...Edited by Tonsko on Tuesday 13th November 10:30
What's the betting that the Android OS works on the OpenMoko device? The unit seems pretty neat and all the hardware apart from the base GSM radio and Wifi (IIRC) are fully documented chipsets with opensource drivers... all it needs is a mature OS and SDK on top of it.... which Android appears to provide.
Potentially a win-win all round unless the egos get in the way. After all - who else will be first to market with an Android phone? Google aren't making hardware, and the Neo thingy was built from the ground up to run Linux.
cyberface said:
Tonsko said:
Although, having just read that android site more thoroughly, the cash bonus might well cause the openMoko to be killed off. Shame.
It remains to be seen... OpenMoko appears to be an open hardware platform as well - the hardware has been chosen to be well documented and easy to write device drivers for etc. whereas the software is currently very immature and, in their words, 'unusable'...Edited by Tonsko on Tuesday 13th November 10:30
What's the betting that the Android OS works on the OpenMoko device? The unit seems pretty neat and all the hardware apart from the base GSM radio and Wifi (IIRC) are fully documented chipsets with opensource drivers... all it needs is a mature OS and SDK on top of it.... which Android appears to provide.
Potentially a win-win all round unless the egos get in the way. After all - who else will be first to market with an Android phone? Google aren't making hardware, and the Neo thingy was built from the ground up to run Linux.
Although the openmoko software itself is immature, there is other call software that you can compile and upload which does work. After a short break, I've found it, it's called 'Qtopia', and isn't totally open source but is a lot more mature, goes on perfectly and allows SMS and phone calls with little or no effort. It is easy to put the open moko stuff back on if you wish.
Aftera little more searchign, here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat....
Aftera little more searchign, here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat....
Edited by Tonsko on Tuesday 13th November 15:43
Tonsko said:
Although the openmoko software itself is immature, there is other call software that you can compile and upload which does work. After a short break, I've found it, it's called 'Qtopia', and isn't totally open source but is a lot more mature, goes on perfectly and allows SMS and phone calls with little or no effort. It is easy to put the open moko stuff back on if you wish.
Aftera little more searchign, here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat....
The qtopia desktop is the same software used by linux PDAs. Trolltech released the Greenphone to develop it into a mobile phone application but they recently discontinued development of it. I don't believe there is a build of it available for the Neo. A working build with working calling features was supposed to be available for the Neo last month so it is probably going to be as delayed as the hardware was. I'd give it till early next year and it should work by then and be ready for public release. The development kits have been selling like hot cakes so this should help matters greatly.Aftera little more searchign, here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat....
Edited by Tonsko on Tuesday 13th November 15:43
I haven't downlaoded the qtopia stuff, but I think a reviewr got the Neo to a point where he could make phone calls nd send texts with it, which I think is mite further than the neo native one.
Any road, it's all good news, and here's hoping thaat when I have a few quid spare in january, the hardware will be a little bit more advanced, and the OS will be more stable!
Any road, it's all good news, and here's hoping thaat when I have a few quid spare in january, the hardware will be a little bit more advanced, and the OS will be more stable!
Tonsko said:
I haven't downlaoded the qtopia stuff, but I think a reviewr got the Neo to a point where he could make phone calls nd send texts with it, which I think is mite further than the neo native one.
Any road, it's all good news, and here's hoping thaat when I have a few quid spare in january, the hardware will be a little bit more advanced, and the OS will be more stable!
They will be releasing the commercial grade phone soon by the looks of it, and they might be planning a 3G version for second quarter next year from what I gather from the userbase.Any road, it's all good news, and here's hoping thaat when I have a few quid spare in january, the hardware will be a little bit more advanced, and the OS will be more stable!
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