When will Rugby face up to its drugs problem?

[Fittster]

Only after a months after an English internation player was banned for a failed drugs test:

"Bath's joint captains Michael Lipman and Alex Crockett and winger Andrew Higgins have resigned from the club.

Their decision came immediately before they were to appear at an internal hearing into an alleged failure to take drug tests on three occasions."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_clu...

[ewenm]

In the Bath Rugby case the drugs were recreational rather than performance enhancing. The situation at Bath is pretty poor at the moment. It was always thought that Stevens was taking his ban but wasn't the only culprit. Whether any others will ever be caught is another matter.

[hornetrider]

Interesting point from BCM in the Times(?) today.

Basically casts doubt on their story and asks that any club they go to should perform a hair sample analysis prior to signing them on.

[ewenm]

I'd have thought that any professional team in any sport would have a periodic testing policy for all employees but players especially, screening for performance enhancing and recreational drugs.

With the amount of money floating around nowadays it would seem to be a prudent step to safeguard investments.

[Martial Arts Man]

I'd say that rugby has a bigger steroid problem than rec drug issue.

Nobody wants to solve that one though.

[ewenm]

Almost certainly true. However the article linked above is specifically connected to the Stevens case (recreational).

I think most of the major sports need to get their testing regimes in order and follow the lead of athletics and cycling in rigorous, frequent in and out of competition testing. I know some tennis players have been muttering about invasion of privacy in the propsed implementation of WADA guidelines. Obviously people will always cheat but having a comprehensive testing program will help minimise that.

Edited by ewenm on Thursday 4th June 14:07

[Martial Arts Man]

Thinking about it further, I think rugby has backed itself into a corner re: performance enhancers.

The players these days would just not survive the season as it is now, without them. Too many matches, too many seriously high impact collisions. Even without the bulk and therefore weight added by the juice, these collisions would still be immense.

So what does rugby do? It either enforces the rules and we see top players spending even more time on the treatment table or it doesn't and we are left with these "getting-more-ridiculous-by-the-day" physiques.

Compared to this, rec drugs are irrelevant. I for one don't really care who took what at the weekend when having to pick between which I would rather see sorted out.

[Bosshogg76]

Martial Arts Man said:

Thinking about it further, I think rugby has backed itself into a corner re: performance enhancers.

The players these days would just not survive the season as it is now, without them. Too many matches, too many seriously high impact collisions. Even without the bulk and therefore weight added by the juice, these collisions would still be immense.

So what does rugby do? It either enforces the rules and we see top players spending even more time on the treatment table or it doesn't and we are left with these "getting-more-ridiculous-by-the-day" physiques.

Compared to this, rec drugs are irrelevant. I for one don't really care who took what at the weekend when having to pick between which I would rather see sorted out.

I would like to see evidence of "juice" being used at the highest level. The national unions must be fairly complicit to allow such apparently widespread drugs abuse at the highest level to occur. Which flies in the face of the RFU's much publicised stance.

I know from level 3 rugby down over, drugs testing is fairly none existent, however when it does occur a fair amount of people end up being caught, eg Penygraig Rugby Football Club where 19 players were suspended for a variety of drugs offences. I however have never been drugs tested after a game either when playing for work or playing Union or League.

Even the SRU seem fairly lax as after playing 3 seasons in Prem 2/3 i have yet to see one drugs test team arrive post game or even at a training session. Compared to when training with Gateshead Thunder where the RFL ran a fair few drugs tests and caught a couple of players, mainly for ephedrine if i remember correctly.

I do agree that the size and physicality of the game could lead to the finger of suspicion being pointed, however even i managed to go from a 12 stone backrow to a 16 stone one in the course of 10 years, of playing just with training and a legal supplementation program. Mind you for a six now, that is fairly tiny especially as i'm only 5'11 every youth player now seems to be 6' plus.

[Martial Arts Man]

I don't need to see evidence. My experience of high level sport and bodybuilding tells me all I need to know having seen some elite level players in the weights room.


Anyone who thinks that all high level sport isn't corrupted by drugs is naive.

[elster]

I think these are two different issues.

Most of the players that have been sacked from drug use seem to be from cocaine and weed. Neither of these are performance enhancing.

[Bosshogg76]

Martial Arts Man said:

I don't need to see evidence. My experience of high level sport and bodybuilding tells me all I need to know having seen some elite level players in the weights room.


Anyone who thinks that all high level sport isn't corrupted by drugs is naive.

So you wouldn't say that seeing that seeing people in the gym and how they train as evidence?? what else would you call it? . I'm pretty sure we have all trained with players who never have a bad day at the gym, always seem able to train consistently at a high level, where as i'm hanging out of my arse and wondering how day after day they seem to be able to come in and get the job done.

And i do hope you aren't calling me naive, i've been around high level rugby for most of my adult life.

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Thursday 4th June 17:21

[Monki]

I know first hand that top clubs in England use cocktails of non-illegal "enhancing" drugs to beef up their players So they're acting within the rules, but in my opinion are putting club performance ahead of the safety of players.

A chap died from a heart attack a couple of years back (on an England training camp) and I do wonder if this cocktails had anything to do with it.....

Naturally, players do beef up playing rugby as the body adapts to the physical nature of the game (impact, strength) so I think a lot do get mistaken for "steroid users", but as mentioned above, I know that premiership clubs are stepping around the rules and agree that something needs to be done about it.

[DJC]

Bosshogg76 said:

Martial Arts Man said:

I don't need to see evidence. My experience of high level sport and bodybuilding tells me all I need to know having seen some elite level players in the weights room.


Anyone who thinks that all high level sport isn't corrupted by drugs is naive.

So you wouldn't say that seeing that seeing people in the gym and how they train as evidence?? what else would you call it? . I'm pretty sure we have all trained with players who never have a bad day at the gym, always seem able to train consistently at a high level, where as i'm hanging out of my arse and wondering how day after day they seem to be able to come in and get the job done.

And i do hope you aren't calling me naive, i've been around high level rugby for most of my adult life.

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Thursday 4th June 17:21

You have *good* days in the gym?

Thats a new one on me!

[Halb]

Monki said:

I know first hand that top clubs in England use cocktails of non-illegal "enhancing" drugs to beef up their players So they're acting within the rules, but in my opinion are putting club performance ahead of the safety of players.

Like what?

[ewenm]

Halb said:

Monki said:

I know first hand that top clubs in England use cocktails of non-illegal "enhancing" drugs to beef up their players So they're acting within the rules, but in my opinion are putting club performance ahead of the safety of players.

Like what?

Probably lots of stuff like Creatine, MaxiMuscle, etc, etc.

[bales]

Monki said:

I know first hand that top clubs in England use cocktails of non-illegal "enhancing" drugs to beef up their players So they're acting within the rules, but in my opinion are putting club performance ahead of the safety of players.

As do the majority of top sports people especially 'power' athletes.

[Monki]

ewenm said:

Halb said:

Monki said:

I know first hand that top clubs in England use cocktails of non-illegal "enhancing" drugs to beef up their players So they're acting within the rules, but in my opinion are putting club performance ahead of the safety of players.

Like what?

Probably lots of stuff like Creatine, MaxiMuscle, etc, etc.

To be honest? My friend was simply told "drink this and ask no questions", so I am not too certain but heard it was a mix of creatine (which can kill your liver) and alternative "steroids".

[swansea v6]

Monki said:

ewenm said:

Halb said:

Monki said:

I know first hand that top clubs in England use cocktails of non-illegal "enhancing" drugs to beef up their players So they're acting within the rules, but in my opinion are putting club performance ahead of the safety of players.

Like what?

Probably lots of stuff like Creatine, MaxiMuscle, etc, etc.

To be honest? My friend was simply told "drink this and ask no questions", so I am not too certain but heard it was a mix of creatine (which can kill your liver) and alternative "steroids".

Please show me the data you have that shows "creatine kills your liver"?? i would love to see it?? plus alternative steroids???.....

[The Ben]

I would imagine it was more HGH than testosterone steroids to be honest... cant be traced and can make you bigger/stronger/faster

[Bosshogg76]

DJC said:

Bosshogg76 said:

Martial Arts Man said:

I don't need to see evidence. My experience of high level sport and bodybuilding tells me all I need to know having seen some elite level players in the weights room.


Anyone who thinks that all high level sport isn't corrupted by drugs is naive.

So you wouldn't say that seeing that seeing people in the gym and how they train as evidence?? what else would you call it? . I'm pretty sure we have all trained with players who never have a bad day at the gym, always seem able to train consistently at a high level, where as i'm hanging out of my arse and wondering how day after day they seem to be able to come in and get the job done.

And i do hope you aren't calling me naive, i've been around high level rugby for most of my adult life.

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Thursday 4th June 17:21

You have *good* days in the gym?

Thats a new one on me!

Well never enjoyed it if that's what you mean by *good* . What i meant was the days where you can seem to find your lifting targets easy. For me they were always few and far between.