Coolant Leak
Coolant Leak
Author
Discussion

AMP

Original Poster:

2 posts

257 months

Sunday 19th September 2004
quotequote all
I own a 91 Turbo Esprit .... less than 5,000 miles. After I started it today (first time in six months) and let it idle for 6-8 minutes, without revving, about 4 liters of antifreeze ran out from under the car. Temperature gauges read normal, so I do not believe that any overheat damage was caused. I jacked it up and found that the lower water pump housing bolt was loose, and will not tighten. The housing seems sealed and tight, so I am assuming that coolant can leak from the broken bolt only. I did not try to remove the bolt. What are my chances of correctly diagnosing and rectifying the problem without having to go through a complex mechanical procedure? The timing belt is probably a factor if an easy-out is needed to remove the bolt. This is really a perplexing problem to me, having one housing bolt fail (I am hoping that is the extent of this problem). I did search through all the topic related threads but could not find any similar examples. Because I am quite less than 100% familiar with our Lotus engines, I posted pictures at:

http://homepage.mac.com/ampoulos/PhotoAlbum45.html

.... looking for some conformation and assistance.

Esprit2

279 posts

259 months

Sunday 19th September 2004
quotequote all
[quote=AMP](Snip)... and let it idle for 6-8 minutes, without revving, about 4 liters of antifreeze ran out from under the car.
(Snip)... found that the lower water pump housing bolt was loose, and will not tighten. The housing seems sealed and tight, so I am assuming that coolant can leak from the broken bolt only. I did not try to remove the bolt. (Snip)...[quote]


Angelo,

It's not likely that the bolt is broken, so try to remove it. The threads in the aluminum engine block are probably stripped. The bolt holes are drilled and tapped deeper than the bolt reaches. Measure the depth of the hole. Then buy a longer bolt and try picking up the threads further down in the hole. Don't torque it to tightly. It's a small bolt going into aluminum and it doesn't take much to strip the threads when it has full engagement. Now it will be biting on even fewer threads.

If that doesn't work, then either a thread insert will have to be installed in the block to repair the threads, or the hole drilled and tapped oversize. Either will require removing the water pump.

The bolt hole is a blind pocket and does not break into the coolant area. A broken or missing bolt will not leak out of the hole. The only leak source due to a loose, broken or stripped bolt would be from the pump housing flange joint.

The photos don't show any signs of antifreeze. Are you sure it came from the pump flange joint? Four liters is a lot of coolant to leak out of an otherwise tight joint in 6-8 minutes. Don't stop looking... there may be another source.

Refill the coolant, start the engine and let it run until it begins to leak again. Then look for the source of the leak while it's leaking. Catch it in the act and report back.

Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North


>> Edited by Esprit2 on Sunday 19th September 02:23

>> Edited by Esprit2 on Sunday 19th September 02:27

lotusguy

1,798 posts

279 months

Sunday 19th September 2004
quotequote all
AMP said:
I own a 91 Turbo Esprit .... less than 5,000 miles. After I started it today (first time in six months) and let it idle for 6-8 minutes, without revving, about 4 liters of antifreeze ran out from under the car. Temperature gauges read normal, so I do not believe that any overheat damage was caused. I jacked it up and found that the lower water pump housing bolt was loose, and will not tighten. The housing seems sealed and tight, so I am assuming that coolant can leak from the broken bolt only. I did not try to remove the bolt. What are my chances of correctly diagnosing and rectifying the problem without having to go through a complex mechanical procedure? The timing belt is probably a factor if an easy-out is needed to remove the bolt. This is really a perplexing problem to me, having one housing bolt fail (I am hoping that is the extent of this problem). I did search through all the topic related threads but could not find any similar examples. Because I am quite less than 100% familiar with our Lotus engines, I posted pictures at:

http://homepage.mac.com/ampoulos/PhotoAlbum45.html

.... looking for some conformation and assistance.


Hi,

With so few miles on a 15 y.o. car, I suspect your waterpump seal/bearing has gone away from having sat so long unused. I think you're probably looking at a waterpump rebuild. Check the weephole in the casting under the shaft for signs of leakage. If found, this pretty much confirms a failed pump.
Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE

dr.hess

837 posts

272 months

Sunday 19th September 2004
quotequote all
Yeah, unless the pump was loose, which if all the other bolts were tight I don't see how, then I don't think you found the source of the leak.

Also, another thing to consider in the thread repair is the epoxy based thread repair stuff from Loctite, I think. You mix it up, push it in the hole (with the pump off, of course, but I think you will have it off shortly anyway), coat the bolt with releasing agent, screw it in the hole, let set, unscrew, clean up and you now have threads again that they claim are stronger than the base metal. May be easier than trying to put a TimeCert or Helicoil in without pulling the motor, and you can always try it and if it doesn't work go Helicoil.

Dr.Hess

Esprit2

279 posts

259 months

Sunday 19th September 2004
quotequote all
AMP said:
I own a 91 Turbo Esprit .... less than 5,000 miles.


5000 total miles? Wow. Ya gotta start driving that thing... IMHO. As you wish.

But as a side issue to this coolant leak thread, the timing belt is specified to be changed at a mileage interval, but time is an issue too. If the engine still has the original timing belt, it's due for a change. It's a long ways from the specified mileage, but it's old.

If the water pump does end up coming off, definitely replace the timing belt while you're in there.

If the water pump doesn't need to come off, then you should still put the timing belt on your radar screen as being due. Past due.

5000 miles doesn't even get to the first scheduled A Service, much less the first scheduled belt tension check at the 12,500 mile B Service. And it's 13 years old. Check the timing belt's tension if you haven't already done so periodically. The belt will stretch/ relax with age as well as miles.

The tension shouldn't be any less than 90 Burroughs (50 Krikit). If the tension is anything less than 80 Burroughs (45 Krikit), retension the belt before driving the car again.

The car may seem almost new, but the rubber products (belts, hoses, seals) are old in age. And they age worse in static storage than they do in regular use.

Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North

AMP

Original Poster:

2 posts

257 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
..... 13 year old Esprit with less than 5,000 miles.

I grew up near the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. From my grade school classroom I could see the cars racing down the backstretch. My father let me go to my first race in 1961 when I was six years old. Foyt was the winner. I remember Jack Brabham in the Cooper-Climax, the first rear-engine car of the modern era made its appearance. He did a masterful job which gained my curiosity and admiration (RESPECT). In ‘63 Chapman’s engineering innovation and Clark’s driving finesse challenged the American oval racing establishment. That was then, when The Indianapolis 500 was a different story all together while under Tony Hulman’s ownership than it is today..... and I was all for it.

Around 1972 my older brother bought a used Europa. I could not get over the realization that Lotus built this incredibly fast and responsive street car ..... and anyone could buy one!! So from time to time while still in high school, I would gather up my nerve and suppress my emotion and go sneak a spin in that car ..... and yes my friends, the Europa purred away real horrorshow, a nice warm vibratey feeling all through your guttiwuts. From skate boards, bicycles, lawn tractors, mini bikes and motorcycles, I just became fixed on reacting to going fast. Thanks to my brother Gary’s natural physics senses, I was able to experience driving a car designed from The Formidable Racing Heritage of the time, and as we know ..... are the roots for many of today's motor sport technologies.

For the next 20+ years I sought out the Lotus Marque to someday own one of its creations. At first, the reality for me to afford a Lotus was just a dream. I still took notice of every For Sale ad and was passionate towards any article published. How exciting it was whenever the ‘Lotus” word appeared. Chapman was Enzo Ferraris greatest competitor and he continued to win Formula One campaigns. After many years, my dream started to turn into a possibility. Fortunately, I stayed single and worked hard which allowed me to actually accumulate enough money to realistically pursue ownership of a Lotus car. I would occasionally place a call to some of the owners of the cars I would see listed in AutoWeek. Time and again though, I was unsure of making a long distance sales transaction that was required for most of these cars. By now I was focusing on the Esprit model.

So in late 1994, once again an ad caught my attention, enough for me to make an inquiry to MotorCars International in Springfield, Missouri. They were in possession of a Jim Clark Edition Esprit which had been advertised for over a month. I did not have a picture of the car and I did not know much about this particular edition. I made the call on a Tuesday and was once again faced with the uncertainty of making a long distance purchase; however, the salesman just clicked with my personal character. He told me about the car of course, and I mentioned to him that I had been to this point a few times before in trying to purchase a Lotus. He suggested that I come over and drive the car but I did not want to drive that 6-7 hours to do so. So he said to get a flight over and he would pick me up at the airport. I laughed a little and thought to myself that I would pass up this opportunity as like the past ones. I told the guy that I appreciated his sale approach, and that I would think about it.

I never thought that I would, but two days later I checked on flights to Springfield and called MotorCars International back. The salesman and I arranged to meet on that Sunday. It turned out to be good day to go over the particulars of the car and any questions about the purchasing of it. We would have the place to ourselves, meaning less distractions.

So there I am in the Springfield airport. I walk over to see a Pearl White Esprit displayed inside the terminal. I thought that is impressive ..... MotorCars must be big here. Carl the sales guy shows up and off we go in a red Ferrari. At that time they had just moved into a new building. It is Sunday, and except for one other customer/client, we had the place to ourselves. First we take a tour of the office operations as he explains to me a little bit about the company. Finally we go out to the service area, walk around the corner of a partitioned service bay, were when I see the back of this BRG Esprit, I felt like I was floating in a dream. I was hoping at that moment the car would turn out to be worth buying. All the cars standard features were documented in the sales brochures, so Carl alluded to its ‘specialization’.

To briefly describe ..... the car had a documentation binder with manufacture shipping and destination dates. From LotusUSA, this particular car was prepared for the 1991 Los Angeles Auto Show where it was featured on the Lotus display. The binder also contains the usual Lotus Complimentary cards, JC Commemorative specs, a really unusual picture of a slightly altered JC Edition Esprit paint scheme, the original window sticker, brochures, magazine articles, and other common official Lotus news releases.

Carl and I completely go over the outside and inside of the car. It was briefly owned by a gentleman in Southern California and had only 1,200 miles on it. It passed my ‘showroom fresh’ test, even though it had been owned and displayed at two auto shows, the second being Seattle. I was really concerned about the doors being overused, but they were working smooth and fit. Now I pondered just what the reason this car was being sold for so soon and with so little milage. We put it up on the lift to see the underside. After doing what I could to spot any damages, it was time to test drive it.

The brakes stopped straight, it tracked straight and turned predictably. I barely exceeded the break-in recommendations. It seemed straight and true, even being a display car, and maybe even if there was damage done at some time, my evaluation was that all was proper, correct and working. Even though I was not mechanically and technically familiar with Lotus, and I did not see to have a knowledgeable person along with me that was, in my judgment and self persuasions, I felt that the car was worth purchasing. Read into this for anyway and for whatever way wanted, a dream was about to come true for me.

In less than a couple of weeks, I took possession of the Esprit. Now I have to say that my original intentions of owning a Lotus was to drive it for three seasons out of the year. Well this car changed that. As a matter of fact up to this point, I had trouble relating to people that kept their cars covered in their garage. So here I am trying to preserve this treasure. I do drive it the way it was made to be driven (we all know that’s the fun of it, and lots of fun it is), and try to be sensible not to mechanically thrash any component leading up to or while doing so, it is just not driven near as much as the norm.

Right away I buy the S3 Service Notes and Parts List binders ..... join Lotus LTD ..... read every book I can find on Lotus, Chapman and Clark ..... start collecting a few worthwhile and unique items relating to any Lotus 38 connection. I relate back to the passion I had for those guys.

Right after receiving my Lotus, I happen to be driving by a long established Porsche/VW car dealership here in Indianapolis. To my surprise, it was closed and vacant. The owner and family were successful in the enterprise; nonetheless, for whatever reasons they called it quits. A year or so before, they had taken on a Lotus distributorship. It did not workout so well here though. The big twin-side backlit LOTUS Marquee sign was still there on the dealership’s sign pole, under the two other brands about 15 feet off the ground. I called the real estate broker’s number and told him that I would be interested to have the Lotus sign. He gave me the owners number. I had in the past run a food catering truck and they were at one time on my route. I also told him about buying the Clark Edition Esprit. Yes, I have that sign ..... the real deal.

I really lucked out in two ways when I contacted the owner, Mr. Giganti. He recommended that I contact his former Lotus technician, Brian Stewart . As it turns out Brian was trained on the Esprit S3. He now had his own sports and classic car business in the area called AutoCar. I hooked up with Brian and he thoroughly inspected my car. He knew the little unmentioned bits-and-tricks for the Esprit. I was relieved when he told me that I did well in buying the car. As far as he could tell, there was no sign of it having been priorly wrecked. (I think that there might have been some minor damage done at one time though. More on that later.) He did the timing belt tension check and other first service maintenance. Stewart was born in London and has been around racing forever. A very short but interesting synopsis is at: <a href="http://www.fattogatto.com/brian_stewart.htm"><a href="http://www.fattogatto.com/brian_stewart.htm"><a href="http://www.fattogatto.com/brian_stewart.htm"><a href="http://www.fattogatto.com/brian_stewart.htm">www.fattogatto.com/brian_stewart.htm</a></a></a></a> I now have a Jim Clark Commemorative Edition Turbo Esprit and a talented mechanic that can can source information specific to the model. A Dream Come True.

I have lately lost contact with Brian Stewart. Blame it on what I would call life’s tangents, or in other words, multiple pursuits. Part of the problem that I am facing is because of just that. I have been involved in some other interests lately that have caused me to divert from driving my car more and staying close to those people that serve sound advice ..... like the experts on the internet forums. I have always said that whether you are a soap opera critic or an Astronaut, those that know their craft best are able to teach others what they know. Thanks guys ..... and I’ll Thank You Again-and-Again.

As it happened, the 31st Monterey Historic Races were held in August of 1995, with Lotus as the honored marque for the event. I love the California coast and have visited the area many times, but never to Laguna Seca Raceway. I swung a couple of days off from work and flew out for a four day weekend of what I can only describe as the most awe inspiring experience I have ever had. The concurs, the raceway, the Chapman family and especially the Golden Gate Lotus Club put on a topnotch affair that I would have considered impossible ..... if it was not that I got to see it for myself. For those interested (or not asleep yet) in a little reminiscing: <a href="http://www.gglotus.org/ggpast/monterey95/x11.htm"><a href="http://www.gglotus.org/ggpast/monterey95/x11.htm"><a href="http://www.gglotus.org/ggpast/monterey95/x11.htm"><a href="http://www.gglotus.org/ggpast/monterey95/x11.htm">www.gglotus.org/ggpast/monterey95/x11.htm</a></a></a></a>

I drove my Esprit to the Atlanta LOG for the 50th anniversary of Lotus production cars. I noticed slight wheel vibration and later discovered a bent right rear rim. After returning the rim was replaced and the car is as smooth as glass. I always assumed the little annoyance was due to ‘flattening’ on the tires from sitting. So maybe at some time the car was subjected to damage. As far as chassis and suspension, I am confident that the car is correct and perfect. While not in use, the car is blocked up off the ground from its suspension points. When I do get to drive, it is perfect without an nuances.

I also attended the Corning/Watkins Glen LOG, but to get there I flew a little 150hp airplane. There is a private sports car race track about 40 miles from here. Last year the St. Louis Area Lotus Lovers (STALLS) group held their ‘track day’ there. I admire and support you Lotus racers. I have a few pictures posted as an entertainment intermission from this post. <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/ampoulos/AMP/PhotoAlbum20.html"><a href="http://homepage.mac.com/ampoulos/AMP/PhotoAlbum20.html"><a href="http://homepage.mac.com/ampoulos/AMP/PhotoAlbum20.html"><a href="http://homepage.mac.com/ampoulos/AMP/PhotoAlbum20.html">http://homepage.mac.com/ampoulos/AMP/PhotoAlbum20.html</a></a></a></a>

For nine years I have adopted the idea that driving my Esprit on rare occasions would not cause ‘static’ problems ..... as long as I changed oil and used fresh gas. I have gotten away with this for nine years now trouble-fee. With your suggestions, I plan to sequence those suggestions to best reveal and remedy the coolant leak problem myself. If that does not work and it turns out that I cannot find help locally, then I hope to find a trusted service shop that can guarantee to fix and preserve my Esprit. The car will have to be transported to them and then I’ll hope for the best outcome. Thanks for getting me started Esprit2 and I will heed your follow-up suggestions. Same goes for lotusguy and dr.hess. Thanks for the start.

For those that have endured this thus far, I would like to mention two more things. First a little tidbit. This past weekend I wanted take the Lotus to a local car show and open house hosted by the PKV ChampCar Racing Team. Well my Esprit did not make it, but I did. I ran into a machinist/engineer friend who has been around for a long time. He is a quiet type, but not by any means reserved. He is one of these guys that wants to (and does) figure out how mechanical things work. We were admiring a Lotus FF on display when we started talking about what a great innovator Colin Chapman was. He told me a story that I have never seen or heard before. He said the Chapman had a van that he drove around the Speedway track. Inside was a measuring device that determined the optimum suspension settings for the race cars. Supposedly, when Colin would drive this van around the track, this device would record the loads created by surface differentials (dips) and/or the forces created while in the turns. He would apply this information and adjust the suspension accordingly (ride height, load & rebound). From this all the fine tuning could be dialed in. Frank even suggested that the device was probably a stand, with vertical and horizontal rods, with sliding weights on those rods, and rubber bushing under the weights acting as indicators. Making a calculation from where the rubber indicators would end up provided the telemetry. A little abstract in my explanation I know, but with a understanding of the concept ..... a simple innovation for sure. And whom might that remind us of?

My response to the September Lotus ReMarque article, “Movers and Shakers at Lotus USA”, the interview with CEO of Lotus Holdings, Inc., Duke Hale. I could rant on-and-on about Tony George and the IMS. In 1995 at Monterey I listened to Clive Chapman talk about his obsession with IMS. Now in this article Mr. Hale says that Lotus Engineering wants to be recognized as being associated with the IMS and the IRL. Now is not the right time to be pushing that relationship. I suggest that they steer away from courting that relationship and save themselves product embarrassment. I think that the currant IMS program has a long row-to-hoe before regaining solid credibility.

So now you know me. And I admit that someday I would like to have a house with a ‘Lotus room’ with my Esprit sitting there.

Angelo






>> Edited by AMP on Monday 20th September 11:36

>> Edited by AMP on Monday 20th September 11:39

>> Edited by AMP on Monday 20th September 11:40

>> Edited by AMP on Monday 20th September 11:41

>> Edited by AMP on Monday 20th September 11:43