Help/Motor rebuild + other questions
Discussion
Hi,
A few questions from someone still learning about Esprits (before buying one):
1- I understand you have to check for everything before buying an Esprit as repairs can be very costly... But what are the CRITICAL things to look for ("must-do")? I was told a compression test is essential, what else? I will have a Lotus-certified mechanic look at the car of course, but I am trying to gather as much info as possible...
2- How much would it cost to rebuild the motor of a 93 Esprit Turbo (in the US)? An approximate figure is appreciated...
3- Many Lotus owners seem to be content to do their own repairs. Where/how did they learn? How can I learn too? Any references, courses, etc...
Sorry for these naive questions, and thanks for all your help. This is a great board!
A few questions from someone still learning about Esprits (before buying one):
1- I understand you have to check for everything before buying an Esprit as repairs can be very costly... But what are the CRITICAL things to look for ("must-do")? I was told a compression test is essential, what else? I will have a Lotus-certified mechanic look at the car of course, but I am trying to gather as much info as possible...
2- How much would it cost to rebuild the motor of a 93 Esprit Turbo (in the US)? An approximate figure is appreciated...
3- Many Lotus owners seem to be content to do their own repairs. Where/how did they learn? How can I learn too? Any references, courses, etc...
Sorry for these naive questions, and thanks for all your help. This is a great board!
Learning, well, you can learn by doing. If you can pay attention to detail, own a reasonable set of tools, can follow directions, and understand some basic mechanic safety then you can easily do a lot of your own repairs. Which, incidentially, if you own a Lotus, you may well be doing a few. I'm a big proponent of working on it yourself and if you've the will then you'll be successful. The people on this board are of great help and there are a lot of them. Join the Lotus Owners Group too, meet lots of new people.
Does your motor need a rebuild? If so, any GOOD engine shop could do this for you and I'd expect around $3-$5k for it. You can also get prices from a Lotus dealer, which are probably undoubtedly be higher. I'm just going through adding up costs for rebuilding a 907 motor and the machine shop time for balancing etc. are going to be the highest costs involved. Parts aren't really that bad. But, my price I'm estimating is for a basic freshing and not counting any major problems that you could see like bad turbo, bad head, broken crank, hole in the block, etc. Any of this could really drive it up.
I'd definitely have someone who knows SE/S4/S4s cars look at it and drive it, of which there are plenty here on this board. Compression test, leak down, check the timing belts, front seal, steering rack, AC system, brakes, etc. I feel it is important to get someone who knows the car look at it for you because they can easily spot thing that have been repaired or that are out of sorts.
Where is the car? Boston?
>> Edited by rlearp on Sunday 19th September 22:28
Does your motor need a rebuild? If so, any GOOD engine shop could do this for you and I'd expect around $3-$5k for it. You can also get prices from a Lotus dealer, which are probably undoubtedly be higher. I'm just going through adding up costs for rebuilding a 907 motor and the machine shop time for balancing etc. are going to be the highest costs involved. Parts aren't really that bad. But, my price I'm estimating is for a basic freshing and not counting any major problems that you could see like bad turbo, bad head, broken crank, hole in the block, etc. Any of this could really drive it up.
I'd definitely have someone who knows SE/S4/S4s cars look at it and drive it, of which there are plenty here on this board. Compression test, leak down, check the timing belts, front seal, steering rack, AC system, brakes, etc. I feel it is important to get someone who knows the car look at it for you because they can easily spot thing that have been repaired or that are out of sorts.
Where is the car? Boston?
>> Edited by rlearp on Sunday 19th September 22:28
As for learning, I learnt from Mike (of Michael's Motorsports fame). I as living in Boston for 5 years and met him through a local Lotus get together.
A great guy, he used to own an SE (which he had ridiculous power from) before his current Sport 350. He doesn't mind explaining how things work or helping people to do the work themselves if they're interested. His hobby happens to be his job.
I'd definitely have him check out any car you were looking at.
michael
2000 111s Elise
ex-1995 S4 Esprit
A great guy, he used to own an SE (which he had ridiculous power from) before his current Sport 350. He doesn't mind explaining how things work or helping people to do the work themselves if they're interested. His hobby happens to be his job.
I'd definitely have him check out any car you were looking at.
michael
2000 111s Elise
ex-1995 S4 Esprit
The first motor I rebuilt was the Twin Cam in my Europa, about 20 years ago now. Damn, time moves fast. Anyway, I had the motor rebuilt by a supposedly reputable shop and they totally screwed it up, charging me 2 large back then and taking over a year to do it. I was young and got ripped. They went out of business six months later. 15K miles after the rebuild, as I was holding #3 piston in my hand (which I still have) with the large chunck missing from it, I figured I could screw a motor up just as good myself for a whole lot less. I rebuilt that motor for about $680 total parts and machine shop and it was tight. New everything, sleves, pistons, turned crank, etc. and some custom head flow work as well. It ran great, and thus started my serious wrenching.
The moral is to just jump in and do it. Esprits are a magical vehicle, no question. But, they are still a car and working on them is no different than working on other cars when you get right down to it. Some things are harder to get to, some things are not. About like working on a Chevy, really, as far as PITA factor goes. Not like a Toyota which doesn't break down in the first place or a Mercedes that has an access hole drilled through the bracket covering the bolt you have to get to, but all in all, not that bad. And today with the internet, you can just post a question and have an answer back right away. Not like 20 years ago when the best you could do was call a shop on the other side of the country.
Dr.Hess
The moral is to just jump in and do it. Esprits are a magical vehicle, no question. But, they are still a car and working on them is no different than working on other cars when you get right down to it. Some things are harder to get to, some things are not. About like working on a Chevy, really, as far as PITA factor goes. Not like a Toyota which doesn't break down in the first place or a Mercedes that has an access hole drilled through the bracket covering the bolt you have to get to, but all in all, not that bad. And today with the internet, you can just post a question and have an answer back right away. Not like 20 years ago when the best you could do was call a shop on the other side of the country.
Dr.Hess
dr.hess said:
The moral is to just jump in and do it.
And this, says it all. You CAN learn to do anything you want to and this is not unobtainable. In fact, I assure you that people a lot less intelligent than you do it everyday - statistically speaking, not pointing at any group.
Of course, having or not having certain tools or background can make it harder, but, if you can follow directions you can handle it. And, as mentioned things are a hell of a lot better now than they were 20 years ago for access to knowledge.
I did the same as above with SB Fords and motorcycles. I'm sure, at the time, I didn't eeekk every ounce of power out of a motor from my efforts but they got rebuilt, ran, and ran reliably.
Ron
LotusDream said:
... But what are the CRITICAL things to look for ("must-do")? I was told a compression test is essential, what else? I will have a Lotus-certified mechanic look at the car of course, but I am trying to gather as much info as possible...
Compression - have it checked... compression & leak down.
a - rings good?
b - valves & guides good?
c - head gasket good?
Clutch
a - has it ever been replaced?
b - any slippage or judder?
c - when adjusted by the book, where is the friction point?
d - is the hydraulic line red plastic or braided stainless steel (AeroQuip)?
e - is the hydraulic fluid clear or black?
f - any black gunk in the bottom of the reservoir?
Oil pressure.
a - at start-up
b - at 3500 rpm hot
c - at idle hot (5 psi minimum spec -- scares me).
Service Record
a - has all scheduled service been done?
b - who performed it? Talk with them.
c - has the C-Service been done?... that's the big one.
Transmission
a - do the output shaft seals leak?
b - is it noisy?
c - can you engage all gears easily (shifter adjustment)?
d - are the synchros worn? Does it grind on quick high rpm shifts? (2nd is usually the first to go).
Timing Belt/ Cam Timing
a - service record?
b - date/ miles at which the belt was last replaced?
c - current belt tension?
d - general condition? Dried, checked, cracked, glazed?
LotusDream said:
2- How much would it cost to rebuild the motor of a 93 Esprit Turbo (in the US)? An approximate figure is appreciated...
That's a tough question. Wait for the timing belt to break and it could get Very expensive. A simple rebuild due to age/wear (nothing broken) could easily cost US$3K. I put US$6.5k into a 907 and did all the labor myself. I rebuilt a friend's 88 Esprit (Citroen transaxle) last Winter. It started out as a clutch replacement, but there was collarteral damage. A bottom end engine rebuild with machining to remanufacture the crank, machine the flywheel, new clutch & release bearing, rebuild transmission (new input shaft, new synchros, a couple of bearings), rebuilt water pump, replaced vacuum pump, replaced all belts and hoses, rebuilt turbo & wastegate... $3500 for parts and machine shop services... no labor charge. Pay someone shop-rate to do the wrench work and it will get expensive.
[quote=LotusDream]3- Many Lotus owners seem to be content to do their own repairs. Where/how did they learn? How can I learn too? Any references, courses, etc... [quote]
For some folk, working on the cars is part of the fun. Part of the involvement. For others it's an economical alternative to paying shop-rates to do a task that is labor intensive. Shop rates will probably run US$50-90 per hour depending upon where you live. Boston is probably not cheap. How many hours can you afford before picking up a wrench starts to look good.
If you are mechanically inclined and experienced in engine mechanics, working on a Lotus engine isn't particularly difficult. This list and the Yahoo mailing lists are a great source of tech-support.
If you are new to shade-tree auto mechanics, a Lotus is not the best place to make your first mistakes. $$ Learn on something simple like an MG. Or join a club and get involved in someone else's project. Even if you're just handing tools to someone else who knows what they're doing, you can observe what he's doing and learn. Ask and he'll probably explain what he's doing as he goes. Have a mechanically knowledgeable friend help you with repairs to your own car.
Take a basic auto mechanics course at the local Vo-tech school. Or perhaps the local high school offers an adult education course through night-school.
I learned by doing and I've been wrenching for fun for as long as I can remember. Don't expect to find a weekend short-course that will turn you into a Lotus mechanic. Like any education, you will need to invest some time and effort.
Invest in a decent set of tools. They don't need to be top of the line Snap-On. A 3/8" drive ratchet set, SAE & Metric combination wrenches (preferably GearWrenches plus a set of Stubbys).
Get interested. Doing the work because you enjoy working with your hands or because you like the reward of fixing an engine and hearing it start for the first time after you've had it all apart. If you do your own mechanical work just to save a buck, it will probably be drudgery and tarnish your Lotus experience. Keep it fun.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Minnesota, USA
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Monday 20th September 06:38
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Monday 20th September 06:41
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Tuesday 21st September 00:54
Is that a 93.5 Esprit SEwith the black Revolution wheels? If so you have a rare bird - one of 60 SEs made in 93, and who knows how many came to the US.
I have one as well, a black and tan. I really like the Revolution wheels (X180R knockoffs).
Note that these cars are a weird S4/SE hybrid. Some interior pieces are SE, some are S4. For example the doors open farther, the seats are different, the switches are different, and some of the cars have switches for the windows on the center console, others on the doors.
Motor wise I think the cars came with the improved S4 chip, which is a bit more "refined."
E-mail or post back if you have a 93.5. I'd like to find out more about yours. Like I said, these are rare birds in the US
Jeff
I have one as well, a black and tan. I really like the Revolution wheels (X180R knockoffs).
Note that these cars are a weird S4/SE hybrid. Some interior pieces are SE, some are S4. For example the doors open farther, the seats are different, the switches are different, and some of the cars have switches for the windows on the center console, others on the doors.
Motor wise I think the cars came with the improved S4 chip, which is a bit more "refined."
E-mail or post back if you have a 93.5. I'd like to find out more about yours. Like I said, these are rare birds in the US
Jeff
Then that is an extremely rare Esprit. While I am biased, I prefer the looks of the 93.5 SE to the earlier SEs and the S4 with the mid-wing, although the wheels and the suspension on the S4, and the dash, are more desirable.
I've had good luck with mine. Even bought it in Seattle and drove it cross-country, how about that? Not a hiccup.
Jeff
I've had good luck with mine. Even bought it in Seattle and drove it cross-country, how about that? Not a hiccup.
Jeff
Those are mighty cool cars, beyond the S4s, it is the one I like the best. Jeff's is black with black wheels and looks really nice. Mega cool and rare.
Damn Pete, I was trying to be subtle! When is that motor coming out? Let me know and I'll make some time to help out with that and turbo selection. I can bring the welder up and if you get materials before hand we'll have an easy time of it.
Ron
Damn Pete, I was trying to be subtle! When is that motor coming out? Let me know and I'll make some time to help out with that and turbo selection. I can bring the welder up and if you get materials before hand we'll have an easy time of it.
Ron
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