who ever said these cars give people trouble
Discussion
Hey Everyone,
I just got in a car that I think speaks volumes for Lotus. Local guy traded in a 16k mile 99 Esprit and has done all of the services and I promise you that this car is as tight as new. I could not believe that a exotic supercar could feel like this with this kind of mileage. Talk about a testament to quality build. I will tell you this, I have a 97 Lambo VT roadster here with the exact same mileage and the Lotus is so much nicer. If any of you that are new to the Marque would like to know about reliability I will quote what my customer told me which I verified since we had the car since new(service wise). I have "never" had a problem with this car, all I do is the service and change the oil and it drives perfect.
All in all, we have been selling Lotus for 6 months now and I am convinced that for the money, you can not buy a better supercar. Once again denouncing all of the people who say they are maintenance nightmares.
Hope everyone is well, have been too busy to really be in touch with what has been happening around here.
Take care,
Chris Constantin
Lotus of Atlanta
I just got in a car that I think speaks volumes for Lotus. Local guy traded in a 16k mile 99 Esprit and has done all of the services and I promise you that this car is as tight as new. I could not believe that a exotic supercar could feel like this with this kind of mileage. Talk about a testament to quality build. I will tell you this, I have a 97 Lambo VT roadster here with the exact same mileage and the Lotus is so much nicer. If any of you that are new to the Marque would like to know about reliability I will quote what my customer told me which I verified since we had the car since new(service wise). I have "never" had a problem with this car, all I do is the service and change the oil and it drives perfect.
All in all, we have been selling Lotus for 6 months now and I am convinced that for the money, you can not buy a better supercar. Once again denouncing all of the people who say they are maintenance nightmares.
Hope everyone is well, have been too busy to really be in touch with what has been happening around here.
Take care,
Chris Constantin
Lotus of Atlanta
Trust me, anyone reading this needs to get their expectations set correctly. My car has 24k miles on it, I have had it for about a month and am already in to it for around 3k. Timing belt, water pump, turbo rebuilt, fuel acctuator, front ball joints, wheels balanced, etc. etc...
Saying that; I still love the car to death, but my expectations were set correctly by reading this forum and other web sites before hand so I'm not sore about it.
AZ88Turbo
Saying that; I still love the car to death, but my expectations were set correctly by reading this forum and other web sites before hand so I'm not sore about it.
AZ88Turbo
actually had a 20k miles Ferrari 348 here about two weeks ago and I was not impressed with it at all. I guess that is just my opinion. As for the Lamborhini, that car really gets gummed up if it is not driven. The S4S we had was much quicker feeling to me when I drove it. The twin turbo Esprit felt much quicker. Now I will say this, In Lambo's defense I got to drive a Murcielago the other day and that was unreal! 65 mph in first gear is pretty amazing and it is really comfortable.
Talk about a testament to quality build.
Chris,
I know you take a lot of crap on these boards...I'm not going to give you any here, so don't take it that way.
And Lord knows, I do love my Lotus, but I do believe that you are the first human in history to have uttered the words "testament to quality build" in reference to a Colin Chapman product. The mere notion is antithesis to the Chapman philosophy.
Now I completely disagree with the "maintenance nightmare" statements people make about Lotus, because they aren't if treated properly. But "treated properly" generally means replacing all the crap plastic parts Lotus puts into the cars in the first place before they cause a major problem.
To be realistic here, you have a 4 year old car with only 16K miles on it at the dealership. That's 4K a year, so it's been driven not too much, not too little, but just right.
Just bringing the whole thing back into perspective...
Mikester
I have a 99 Esprit. I use it as my daily driver. In rain, hot, cold, even in the snow. (I'm sure several Lotus worshippers just fell over dead at the way I treat it as a CAR and not a museum piece)
I take pretty good care of it, but I am not overly obsessed.
I've replaced the chip, have the boost turned up, and the muffler removed directly behind the cats. No other mods.
I've put 8,000 miles on it in 3 months. It doesn't rattle, squeak, get hot or make me nervous about whether it will start, run or break down. I don't baby it either. It is fun to drive and I drive it hard.
I thought I would miss the Ferrari, but I am so impressed with the Esprit. I do believe it is put together very well. The maintenance nightmare stories sound like fairy tales to me. (Hopefully I won't be on here in a month telling you how wrong I was)
Just thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents worth.
Dirk
I take pretty good care of it, but I am not overly obsessed.
I've replaced the chip, have the boost turned up, and the muffler removed directly behind the cats. No other mods.
I've put 8,000 miles on it in 3 months. It doesn't rattle, squeak, get hot or make me nervous about whether it will start, run or break down. I don't baby it either. It is fun to drive and I drive it hard.
I thought I would miss the Ferrari, but I am so impressed with the Esprit. I do believe it is put together very well. The maintenance nightmare stories sound like fairy tales to me. (Hopefully I won't be on here in a month telling you how wrong I was)
Just thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents worth.
Dirk
karmavore said: You have a RACE CHIP V8 as a daily driver and have had NO problems...???
Luke.
If he doesn't hammer it all the time, the chip won't wear the car out any faster than stock.
However, it's been just 3 months. Wait...it's coming.
Myself, I've never had anything go seriously bad...yet. However, the PO replaced most of the crap bits (ss hoses in place of plastic ones) and my mechanic has cought things before they impacted other serious systems.
I have a super-solid car, and still at the last servicing I had a chargecooler pump rebuild, which also required a cracked plastic t-fitting replaced with a steal one, and replacing the drain tube in the boot which had been eaten away. Oh, and I also had the rear side marker replaced because it snapped off...a job that required the whole rear end being removed to get to it, making it the costliest of all the reapirs for a 10 dollar part.
Like I said, if maintained they are very reliable, but Lotus and Chapman are famous for using crap parts.
Mike
I guess that I hear different things from everybody. In all honesty, I am slightly confused as to which model is more reliable. And as for the mileage, there is a little mystery to that to reiforce my point. The car is a '99 but it was a show car for Lotus for about two years. It was only sold new in early 2001 I believe. The guy who traded it actually used it as a daily driver and has not had any problems with it. He lives in downtown atlanta so he does not always have to go far but other than that it is really solid. I guess it is all about the person's care for the car.
I assume that all of you treat your cars well but I guess that I am wondering how the person was to it before you. I will agree about the plastic bits though, they do leave a little to be desired for sure. I will also say this though, I have another customer that put 55k miles on his 2000 and it still ran like new when he sold it. He is merely a big proponent of doing service and a little bit intuitive as to when things are going wrong.
He loved his car so much that he bought his third car from me two and a half months ago and I just saw him the other day in for an oil change, he now has almost 8k miles on it!!! You are right though, only problems he has had have been little fit and finish things like the bar that adjusts the drivers seat, door lock mechanism on the drivers side and his hood latch coming loose at 160mph(no sh@t, 160). I guess that is a warranty claim that not many people have to deal with.
Take it easy,
Chris
I assume that all of you treat your cars well but I guess that I am wondering how the person was to it before you. I will agree about the plastic bits though, they do leave a little to be desired for sure. I will also say this though, I have another customer that put 55k miles on his 2000 and it still ran like new when he sold it. He is merely a big proponent of doing service and a little bit intuitive as to when things are going wrong.
He loved his car so much that he bought his third car from me two and a half months ago and I just saw him the other day in for an oil change, he now has almost 8k miles on it!!! You are right though, only problems he has had have been little fit and finish things like the bar that adjusts the drivers seat, door lock mechanism on the drivers side and his hood latch coming loose at 160mph(no sh@t, 160). I guess that is a warranty claim that not many people have to deal with.
Take it easy,
Chris
The chip is the 350 to 450 upgrade from Marcus. And yep, I drive the snot out of it with no problems. You scare me when you say that it is coming, but I've got faith in it.
I do keep up with the preventative maintenance and while I drive way too fast much of the time, I don't do any burn out crazy moron fast starts. My driving doesn't start until I ease it to 75 or 80 mph.
I'll let you know if I'm still such a big fan in 3 or 4 months.
Dirk
I do keep up with the preventative maintenance and while I drive way too fast much of the time, I don't do any burn out crazy moron fast starts. My driving doesn't start until I ease it to 75 or 80 mph.
I'll let you know if I'm still such a big fan in 3 or 4 months.
Dirk
Well, I was trying to avoid this, but, not trying to start any flame wars... so here goes.
Overall, I think the Esprit V8 is well sorted car. I bought a new 2000 MY in October 2001 (so full warranty) and have since driven almost 17K miles. I'll agree up front that my problems are not typical but I also "over maintain" the vehicle and while driven frequently, is NOT driven abusively (I don't baby it either).
Problems... two cooling fans up front went out (Ford parts), one leaky radiator (poor workmanship on end-tank soldering), water pump came loose and started gushing coolant, AC Compressor O-rings leaked when new... now the Compressor itself is banging (awaiting call from dealer), Lower Rear Control Arm bushings are being cut my suspension itself (design issue), right trailing arm loose in under 6K miles and ALL toe-in spacers fell out, seat belt latch fell apart, right side mirror is loose, currently on it's 3rd exhaust system which is also starting to crack and the worst failure so far... the gearbox was defective (it's French you know) and was grinding itself up inside, hence it was replaced as well. I also have the right hood corner latch burst loose when driving in excess of 120 when the headlights are up. The battery also died within a couple months (gotta love Delco).
I agree that several sourced components are of questionable quality and probably don't belong in any car (well, maybe a Lada). Having a surplus of new defective exhausts is questionable as well.... can't they source one where the workmanship is good (workmanship IS the problem with the exhaust). And of course, the usual issues... GM Airbag steering wheel, horns stolen from Grandpa's Buick, leaky axle shaft seals (had one of these too on the bad gearbox) and other assorted bits and pieces.
Needless to say, if i didn't have warranty on this car, I would probably be a very upset owner. I do most of the maintenance myself and put the car on the lift every month to check things and wipe bits and pieces down, etc. I must say that LCU has been top-notch in taking care of everything. You really can not fault their dedication to customer satisfaction.
I would certainly buy the car again... even new, you need to sort out some problems and maintain it to a high-level if you expect it to NOT let you down. I still plan on keeping my Esprit for a very long time and will continue to maintain it. At some point however, I see myself replacing the radiator, all 3 fans and the horns with high-quality ones (I already replaced the sealed beam headlights) and will have to have a "real" exhaust system fabricated at some point as I doubt there will be any other options.
Personally, I doubt the 99 owner has not experienced any of the usual problems... I recently checked out a 99 which a local owns.... 22K miles, in decent shape overall, but his gearbox, which was also removed, disassembled, reassembled and re-installed recently was leaking from both axle shaft seals AND the gearbox case halves. Granted, probably a non-gifted mechanic was involved (and signed his name in yellow marker on the oil filter, had wiriting all over the crank pulley for cambelt servicing, etc.) and he had straight pipes, no exhaust system. So each car seems to have it's personal saga for realiability.
Bottom line, great driver's car... solid where it counts and should last many years once the annoying bits are taken care of. Rattles and squeaks which were present were gradually worked out by tightening body mounts, suspension pieces and just an overall check front to back.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Overall, I think the Esprit V8 is well sorted car. I bought a new 2000 MY in October 2001 (so full warranty) and have since driven almost 17K miles. I'll agree up front that my problems are not typical but I also "over maintain" the vehicle and while driven frequently, is NOT driven abusively (I don't baby it either).
Problems... two cooling fans up front went out (Ford parts), one leaky radiator (poor workmanship on end-tank soldering), water pump came loose and started gushing coolant, AC Compressor O-rings leaked when new... now the Compressor itself is banging (awaiting call from dealer), Lower Rear Control Arm bushings are being cut my suspension itself (design issue), right trailing arm loose in under 6K miles and ALL toe-in spacers fell out, seat belt latch fell apart, right side mirror is loose, currently on it's 3rd exhaust system which is also starting to crack and the worst failure so far... the gearbox was defective (it's French you know) and was grinding itself up inside, hence it was replaced as well. I also have the right hood corner latch burst loose when driving in excess of 120 when the headlights are up. The battery also died within a couple months (gotta love Delco).
I agree that several sourced components are of questionable quality and probably don't belong in any car (well, maybe a Lada). Having a surplus of new defective exhausts is questionable as well.... can't they source one where the workmanship is good (workmanship IS the problem with the exhaust). And of course, the usual issues... GM Airbag steering wheel, horns stolen from Grandpa's Buick, leaky axle shaft seals (had one of these too on the bad gearbox) and other assorted bits and pieces.
Needless to say, if i didn't have warranty on this car, I would probably be a very upset owner. I do most of the maintenance myself and put the car on the lift every month to check things and wipe bits and pieces down, etc. I must say that LCU has been top-notch in taking care of everything. You really can not fault their dedication to customer satisfaction.
I would certainly buy the car again... even new, you need to sort out some problems and maintain it to a high-level if you expect it to NOT let you down. I still plan on keeping my Esprit for a very long time and will continue to maintain it. At some point however, I see myself replacing the radiator, all 3 fans and the horns with high-quality ones (I already replaced the sealed beam headlights) and will have to have a "real" exhaust system fabricated at some point as I doubt there will be any other options.
Personally, I doubt the 99 owner has not experienced any of the usual problems... I recently checked out a 99 which a local owns.... 22K miles, in decent shape overall, but his gearbox, which was also removed, disassembled, reassembled and re-installed recently was leaking from both axle shaft seals AND the gearbox case halves. Granted, probably a non-gifted mechanic was involved (and signed his name in yellow marker on the oil filter, had wiriting all over the crank pulley for cambelt servicing, etc.) and he had straight pipes, no exhaust system. So each car seems to have it's personal saga for realiability.
Bottom line, great driver's car... solid where it counts and should last many years once the annoying bits are taken care of. Rattles and squeaks which were present were gradually worked out by tightening body mounts, suspension pieces and just an overall check front to back.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Hi All.
I'm not into starting any Flame Wars here either, I may be mistaken, but I thought that selling of any kind (even the soft sell presented here) is prohibited on this forum.
This type of post should go into the classifieds and allow Ted to reap some revenue. If Chris wants to present or sell a car that is where it should be done. He is not a private seller, but represents a comercial enterprise. If he wants to comment on Lotus build quality, fine, but I take his post as shrouding the introduction of the '99 Esprit in a commentary on build quality. Ernest and Ted monitor the content here pretty well, but this is one case where I believe the rules should be applied. Just my $0.02! Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
I'm not into starting any Flame Wars here either, I may be mistaken, but I thought that selling of any kind (even the soft sell presented here) is prohibited on this forum.
This type of post should go into the classifieds and allow Ted to reap some revenue. If Chris wants to present or sell a car that is where it should be done. He is not a private seller, but represents a comercial enterprise. If he wants to comment on Lotus build quality, fine, but I take his post as shrouding the introduction of the '99 Esprit in a commentary on build quality. Ernest and Ted monitor the content here pretty well, but this is one case where I believe the rules should be applied. Just my $0.02! Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
All these problems is why I dont buy an Esprit now in my life. I could afford an SE, maybe even an S4, but I sure as hell cant afford it if ONE thing went wrong.
Plus I dont get it, you would think Lotus would build the damn car with quality parts and charge more for the car. It would still be one of the best priced exotic supercars, and wont having people knocking their marque for shitty build. Everyone I talk to who knows anything about supercars always has to add when I bing up Lotuss name, "Lotus's are the biggest piece of shit, there never running right, Porsche is the way to go"
Like how the hell does a seat belt assembly break. Are the people who build the Esprit drunk at the time or something?
It really pisses me off sometimes.
Plus I dont get it, you would think Lotus would build the damn car with quality parts and charge more for the car. It would still be one of the best priced exotic supercars, and wont having people knocking their marque for shitty build. Everyone I talk to who knows anything about supercars always has to add when I bing up Lotuss name, "Lotus's are the biggest piece of shit, there never running right, Porsche is the way to go"
Like how the hell does a seat belt assembly break. Are the people who build the Esprit drunk at the time or something?
It really pisses me off sometimes.
Hey Jim,
You have obviously missed the point. When my car is ready to be sold I will advertise it don't worry. Did you see any mention of where I might be trying to list, a price or any other mention of the like. If you have comment about build quality which is what the post was about then please chime in.
No offense but I don't think there is much I could put on this board that you would not have at least denounce with some kind of negative input. You constantly put me down and I really don't appreciate it. All of the other comments on this thread have been in reference to what we are talking about with the exception of yours. No one else seems to feel this way so why do you. Please, please don't provoke anything. I was just trying to make a comment about build quality and nothing else.
You have obviously missed the point. When my car is ready to be sold I will advertise it don't worry. Did you see any mention of where I might be trying to list, a price or any other mention of the like. If you have comment about build quality which is what the post was about then please chime in.
No offense but I don't think there is much I could put on this board that you would not have at least denounce with some kind of negative input. You constantly put me down and I really don't appreciate it. All of the other comments on this thread have been in reference to what we are talking about with the exception of yours. No one else seems to feel this way so why do you. Please, please don't provoke anything. I was just trying to make a comment about build quality and nothing else.
Mike swoops in to keep it civil. Isn't that scary?
To botha you I'd say:
Jim: You make a valid point, so hopefully that's it and what I'm about to say will pre-empt you flaming Chris on reply.
Chris: Jim makes a valid point...I didn't want to bring it up (and I have never flamed you either) but your original post did smack a bit of salesman advert. To the non-salesamn here who is aware that's what you do for a living, the post had a definate "I have a new car for sale in the showroom" flavor to it.
I personally wouldn't have moved the post, or called for it, but Ted or Ernest would be entirely correct to do so. Personal sales are OK here, but you DO work for a dealership and have to remember that when you post. Just a heads up.
As for the build quality stuff, when I say wait for it, you have to remember that you have a hot chip...450 viuce 350 HP. Your engine will be fine...these engines can do much more than that. The problem is you are bumping up against the limits of the tranny hard.
Johan, the poster child for beefed up V-8 insanity, rebuilds his transmission about as often as you have a bowel movement. It's something to keep in mind...the tranny is ass, Lotus wanted them to improve it and Renault said no. If they had, your Esprit would have probably come with 450 HP stock.
Keep an eye on it, and squirrel away some cash for when/if the bad news hits.
Mike
To botha you I'd say:
Jim: You make a valid point, so hopefully that's it and what I'm about to say will pre-empt you flaming Chris on reply.
Chris: Jim makes a valid point...I didn't want to bring it up (and I have never flamed you either) but your original post did smack a bit of salesman advert. To the non-salesamn here who is aware that's what you do for a living, the post had a definate "I have a new car for sale in the showroom" flavor to it.
I personally wouldn't have moved the post, or called for it, but Ted or Ernest would be entirely correct to do so. Personal sales are OK here, but you DO work for a dealership and have to remember that when you post. Just a heads up.
As for the build quality stuff, when I say wait for it, you have to remember that you have a hot chip...450 viuce 350 HP. Your engine will be fine...these engines can do much more than that. The problem is you are bumping up against the limits of the tranny hard.
Johan, the poster child for beefed up V-8 insanity, rebuilds his transmission about as often as you have a bowel movement. It's something to keep in mind...the tranny is ass, Lotus wanted them to improve it and Renault said no. If they had, your Esprit would have probably come with 450 HP stock.
Keep an eye on it, and squirrel away some cash for when/if the bad news hits.
Mike
You know what is funny about the tranny thing, I asked the people at Lotus USA what the gig was on those things breaking. They tend to stick to not being able to shift hard from 1st to second gears and that they use the same tranny in their 700hp race car with no issues. I am sad to hear that it is apparently not the case. Maybe I should start a thread inquiring about tranny's on this board to see how many people really have had that problem.
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