further thoughts on gearboxes...

[rob.e]

We’ve had several discussions regarding alternate gearbox options for the esprit:

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=40247&f=17&h=0

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=17&h=0&t=30473

This set me thinking - Is there an alternative to quaife?

Ok, so discounting the racing options (Helwand, Fresneau, Sedomo, plus this new one from michaels motorsports) as anything without synchro is useless for road use…



Porsche G50:
Johan Hybinette has one, but I don’t know if he has fitted it. Anyone know?
John Hazard of Bury Road Garage in the uk has one in his V8 race car. Apparently a bitch to fit, includes having to move the ENGINE mounts so that the drive shafts are in the right place. Running the box inverted also means you lose the whole of your rear luggage area. He is of the opinion that its NOT a good idea for a road car, and given that he’s actually done it, rather than just talk about it, I’d go with his judgement!

Pics at:
www.brgclassics.info/espritv8_racecar.html


Audi:

There is a transaxle in use within the audi range (A6 I think) that is the right layout for mid engined use. The twin turbo v6 from the “old” audi S4 is mated up with this transmission for the new (audi group) Seat Cupra GT racer. It has 500bhp and six speeds sequentially.



The same box (I think) is also used by Spectre cars, but most likely in H pattern with syncro:
www.spectrecars.com/






ZF/RBT:
The pantera guys use a ZF based transmission. These are now build/maintained by RBT. Old technology, but designed for big horsepower. There is now a 6 speed option. The new FORD GT uses this transmission.

www.rbttrans.com/

I exchanged emails with Lloyd Butfoy who runs RBT last year. He has supplied a box to lotus for evaluation some time ago for the v8 esprit, but does not know what became of it. The box is very expensive, so I guess lotus decided to stick with the renault unit on the grounds of cost. This is more money than a quaife.


Cima:

Now you’re talking mega, mega money. This is used by the Ascari KZ1 mated to a BMW v8 out of the current M5.



Its also used by Koenigsegg.



And its also used by Pagani for the Zonda:





No conclusions.. just sharing what info i have.

:-)

Anyway, forget about that - the sun is shining and i'm off to play with my car

Rob

[karmavore]

Michaels is supposed to offer a stronger 5spd with synchos. I wish they'd come on to comment.

Who's the fellow with contacts there..?

uke.

[greezmunky]

I think the answer for this is gonna come from the kit car world. Those guys are using the audi quattro boxes in their mid engine lambo kits with some success. Porsche 915 box is also an alternative but at $5000+ it may not be worth the money. We are just going to have to wait for one of the more creative list members to grenada their tranny so we can just find out!

[kylie]

Hi there you could try contacting these people to see what they did on a hand built F40 here in NZ. 5 speeds + reverse, think the gear box was a modified Renault. www.f40.co.nz
Kylie

[rob.e]

kylie said: Hi there you could try contacting these people to see what they did on a hand built F40 here in NZ. 5 speeds + reverse, think the gear box was a modified Renault. www.f40.co.nz
Kylie

In the specification it says "ZF 5 speed transaxle" so that will be the same as a pantera i guess.

[kylie]

Sorry I should have edited to add with a question mark and double checked the website. He has definately used them in lambo's though.
Thanks
KS

[dictys]

How about a six speed Getrag which was fitted to the Lister Storm and BMW 850? I have also heard this was fitted to a Esprit V8 Engine with 600 HP in a GT racer.

[cnh1990]

I do not know the status of the G50 tranny research for Esprit's as used in the Ultima cars.

It is rumored that Johan is selling his car after returning the Extreme Esprit to somewhat a more street friendly car. It is also rumored that he has not taken on any more new Esprit projects other than the current cars and people he is working with.

I think there is a strong possibility he is looking for a different type of project car. Next time I chat with Metz I will inquire what is going on with Johan.
Calvin

[rob.e]

dictys said: How about a six speed Getrag which was fitted to the Lister Storm and BMW 850? I have also heard this was fitted to a Esprit V8 Engine with 600 HP in a GT racer.

Dictys - the GT1/GT2 cars ex-factory Mike Haines etc ran the 6 Speed Hewland ‘TGT’ Sequential Transverse Transmission, not Getrag.

The 850 BMW is front engined isn't it? Not sure about the lister - i thought this was front engined too? Might be wrong.

Rob

[rob.e]

Also.. there was an article in this weeks autocar regarding the new Ford GT. Although the prototypes had the Tremec (ZF) RBT transmission, the production cars will use a transmission from Ricardo.

"The transaxle gearbox is the Ricardo GT650 casing used on Audi's Le Mans car, but with different gears and synchro-mesh. Ricardo, of course developed the Mclaren F1 'box and supplies Ferrari's front-engined cars."

I wonder how much the development of this cost..? You can see why lotus never had the cash to do this

[dictys]

The 850 is front engined but the I thought the Lister was mid engined, I maybe wrong and my last post was most likely written with beer goggles on.