MODS and Upgrades
Discussion
Hi,
Recently, there seems to be no end for the desire by many owners, many of them newer ones, to upgrade the performance of their Esprits.
In some sense, I find this somewhat amusing as I am of the firm impression that a stock Esprit is beyond the driving capabilities of about 80% of the people who own and drive them. Myself included.
I have done ride-alongs with people who regularly race their Esprits and it's amazing what they can do with their cars, some of them in basically stock form.
Increases to HP and turbo boost and the like will generally accelerate the wear on the engine, clutch, tranny and brakes. It can suck thousands from your wallet and may leave you flat should some unexpected major repair be lurking in the shadows.
And, if my impressions are correct, many people doing the upgrades are not skilled enough as drivers to take advantage of them. So, I can only conclude that it's more about 'chest beating' or Bragging Rights.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a Flame War here, just trying to add a little perspective to the fury with which people go out and add this 'Go Fast' part or that one before the ink on their purchase agreement is even dry.
A good driving course might be a better investment than a Super-Chip or Hyper-Turbo for many owners who would subsequently be able to derive higher performance from their stock Esprit than adding a bunch of steroids, only to be unable to use any of the additional gains. That having been said, it is certainly everyone's right to do with their car as they wish. Just something to consider. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Recently, there seems to be no end for the desire by many owners, many of them newer ones, to upgrade the performance of their Esprits.
In some sense, I find this somewhat amusing as I am of the firm impression that a stock Esprit is beyond the driving capabilities of about 80% of the people who own and drive them. Myself included.
I have done ride-alongs with people who regularly race their Esprits and it's amazing what they can do with their cars, some of them in basically stock form.
Increases to HP and turbo boost and the like will generally accelerate the wear on the engine, clutch, tranny and brakes. It can suck thousands from your wallet and may leave you flat should some unexpected major repair be lurking in the shadows.
And, if my impressions are correct, many people doing the upgrades are not skilled enough as drivers to take advantage of them. So, I can only conclude that it's more about 'chest beating' or Bragging Rights.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a Flame War here, just trying to add a little perspective to the fury with which people go out and add this 'Go Fast' part or that one before the ink on their purchase agreement is even dry.
A good driving course might be a better investment than a Super-Chip or Hyper-Turbo for many owners who would subsequently be able to derive higher performance from their stock Esprit than adding a bunch of steroids, only to be unable to use any of the additional gains. That having been said, it is certainly everyone's right to do with their car as they wish. Just something to consider. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
I see your point in some cases, but I believe most owners upgrade their cars for one or all of these reasons BESIDES the great braggin rights.
1. Something was broken or gonna break and instead replacing it with the same component, they spend a few extra bucks and get the better component, and it may even make the car faster which is always fun!
2. Modding a car your in love with is just another fine way to be more connected to it and to make it more personal for the owner. I remember when i had 3 Mustang 5.0's during my years, and modding them made me feel more like MY car.
So thats just 2 reasons, but those 2 reasons are good ones I think.
1. Something was broken or gonna break and instead replacing it with the same component, they spend a few extra bucks and get the better component, and it may even make the car faster which is always fun!
2. Modding a car your in love with is just another fine way to be more connected to it and to make it more personal for the owner. I remember when i had 3 Mustang 5.0's during my years, and modding them made me feel more like MY car.
So thats just 2 reasons, but those 2 reasons are good ones I think.
When I was a regular track guy and SCCA racer, I was very much "anti-mod". I thought it was stupid to throw money at a car that was better spent on driver education. Basically, I was a track snob.
Now I have a different opinion. I'm not so interested in putting my nice street car in harm's way and don't find driving a street car on the track to be all that exciting anyway. Fooling with my S4s gives me a little bit of that new(er) car feeling without the financial pain. It keeps it interesting. What difference does it make if I'm not using 100% of the car? Even among actual roadracers, how many use that theoretical 100%? Out of 50 guys in the Spec RX7 class I used to race, maybe 5 of them were close. I was a second back.
My car has Andy's chip, a limited slip, and a set of blingy 2002/2003 wheels. This winter it might get an adjustable cam gear. EDIT: oh, yeah - upgraded V8 lower control arms and a MOMO steering wheel too.
>> Edited by MikeyRide on Wednesday 16th July 18:22
Now I have a different opinion. I'm not so interested in putting my nice street car in harm's way and don't find driving a street car on the track to be all that exciting anyway. Fooling with my S4s gives me a little bit of that new(er) car feeling without the financial pain. It keeps it interesting. What difference does it make if I'm not using 100% of the car? Even among actual roadracers, how many use that theoretical 100%? Out of 50 guys in the Spec RX7 class I used to race, maybe 5 of them were close. I was a second back.
My car has Andy's chip, a limited slip, and a set of blingy 2002/2003 wheels. This winter it might get an adjustable cam gear. EDIT: oh, yeah - upgraded V8 lower control arms and a MOMO steering wheel too.
>> Edited by MikeyRide on Wednesday 16th July 18:22
First off, nothing wrong with chest beating and bragging rights.
Second, modding my car (which I agree I never drive anywhere near the limit) helps me connect with the car. It makes me feel like it's mine.
The PO had done some mods, and quite frankly, I got tired of going through the laundry list and explaining that none of it was my work.
So, now that I've done a couple mods myself, I feel more at one with the car, and I feel like I helped make her the beast that she is.
So, to recap:
1. Bragging rights, hell yeah. I'm not above playground antics!
2. It's spiritual man, spiritual
Mike
Second, modding my car (which I agree I never drive anywhere near the limit) helps me connect with the car. It makes me feel like it's mine.
The PO had done some mods, and quite frankly, I got tired of going through the laundry list and explaining that none of it was my work.
So, now that I've done a couple mods myself, I feel more at one with the car, and I feel like I helped make her the beast that she is.
So, to recap:
1. Bragging rights, hell yeah. I'm not above playground antics!
2. It's spiritual man, spiritual
Mike
I would rather use 70% of the potential of a modified car rather than nearly 100% potential of a unmodified car.
I no longer wish to walk the tightrope. I have crossed the line a few times and it is rather uncomfortable when that happens. I prefer the extra headroom and the allowances that it brings for both driver and equipment error/malfunction.
Calvin
I no longer wish to walk the tightrope. I have crossed the line a few times and it is rather uncomfortable when that happens. I prefer the extra headroom and the allowances that it brings for both driver and equipment error/malfunction.
Calvin
Hi,
Perhaps a little clarification is in order as much of my original statement seems to have been taken negatively.
I have no problem with modifying an Esprit. My '85 has a hotter cam w/ tighter, shorter valve springs, forged, ceramic coated pistons, ceramic coated exhaust header and Turbo shell, increased boost, re-jetted carbs and an absence of some emissions gear. I have adjustable rear links and run greater than stock camber, recurved distributor, un-stock tires, a 3 core radiator, Kevlar Brakes w/ SS lines and V8 seats, so you see, it is not stock at all.
As I said previously, recently, many new owners jump right in for the HOT mods without ever really getting to know the car. Many of them don't even know what they're getting into. We have seen posts asking about nomenclature, installation and benefits of mods which they have already purchased, but they don't even know how to get the door panel off the door... ?
Bragging Rights...?? I guess if that's your thing, so be it. Personally, I think just owning one of these rare machines fills that bill quite nicely.
My only real point is that many of the available upgrades are really not necessary. There's nothing wrong with a stock Esprit and many of the upgrades do not necessarily make the car better. Lotus designed the car as a whole unit w/ each ability balanced to the other. Change one aspect and you upset the total balance of the car. What sense does it make to bolt on some GO FAST parts without an accompanying brake and suspension upgrade as well..?? I realize it's not as 'sexy', but shouldn't the power upgrades be the last ones to do? Perhaps some mixed up priorities.
As I said, everyone has the right to do as they wish. Just trying to inject some perspective that we don't often see. And, when all is said and done, will there be any truly stock Esprits left...??
Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Perhaps a little clarification is in order as much of my original statement seems to have been taken negatively.
I have no problem with modifying an Esprit. My '85 has a hotter cam w/ tighter, shorter valve springs, forged, ceramic coated pistons, ceramic coated exhaust header and Turbo shell, increased boost, re-jetted carbs and an absence of some emissions gear. I have adjustable rear links and run greater than stock camber, recurved distributor, un-stock tires, a 3 core radiator, Kevlar Brakes w/ SS lines and V8 seats, so you see, it is not stock at all.
As I said previously, recently, many new owners jump right in for the HOT mods without ever really getting to know the car. Many of them don't even know what they're getting into. We have seen posts asking about nomenclature, installation and benefits of mods which they have already purchased, but they don't even know how to get the door panel off the door... ?
Bragging Rights...?? I guess if that's your thing, so be it. Personally, I think just owning one of these rare machines fills that bill quite nicely.
My only real point is that many of the available upgrades are really not necessary. There's nothing wrong with a stock Esprit and many of the upgrades do not necessarily make the car better. Lotus designed the car as a whole unit w/ each ability balanced to the other. Change one aspect and you upset the total balance of the car. What sense does it make to bolt on some GO FAST parts without an accompanying brake and suspension upgrade as well..?? I realize it's not as 'sexy', but shouldn't the power upgrades be the last ones to do? Perhaps some mixed up priorities.
As I said, everyone has the right to do as they wish. Just trying to inject some perspective that we don't often see. And, when all is said and done, will there be any truly stock Esprits left...??
Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
You take a look at my web site, and brakes and suspension are on my wish list as well. When I can afford them in the budget, they will get done.
However, to say that the Esprit out-of-the-box is just as the Lotus techs intended is a little bit misleading. Lotus have offered hotter Esprits when they could... X-180, S4s, etc. Some had major changes, others minor that the owner can do themselves.
Also, parts and cost were often limiters on Lotus engineers, not sacrificing balance.
The V-8 Esprit doesn't even begin to take advantage of what is there in the engine. Not because Lotus felt the car was perfectly balanced, but because the tranny couldn't take more and still be covered under warranty. If a stronger tranny magically appeared on Lotus' doorstep, I don't believe for a second the later V-8s would have left the plant at less than 450-500HP.
So, I do agree that just adding a chip isn't the be-all-end-all of Esprit ownership. Other things should be done to maintain your balance. That's why I refused to buy my 330HP chip until the BOV kits were in stock... wouldn't put that kind of stress on my turbo without a vent for the backpressure.
Nor do I think that some of the changes being done are major enough to completely throw the car's balance out of whack either. If that were the case, we wouldn't have seen an S4s, or 50 different wing styles on Esprits over the Steven's model lifecycle alone
Mike
However, to say that the Esprit out-of-the-box is just as the Lotus techs intended is a little bit misleading. Lotus have offered hotter Esprits when they could... X-180, S4s, etc. Some had major changes, others minor that the owner can do themselves.
Also, parts and cost were often limiters on Lotus engineers, not sacrificing balance.
The V-8 Esprit doesn't even begin to take advantage of what is there in the engine. Not because Lotus felt the car was perfectly balanced, but because the tranny couldn't take more and still be covered under warranty. If a stronger tranny magically appeared on Lotus' doorstep, I don't believe for a second the later V-8s would have left the plant at less than 450-500HP.
So, I do agree that just adding a chip isn't the be-all-end-all of Esprit ownership. Other things should be done to maintain your balance. That's why I refused to buy my 330HP chip until the BOV kits were in stock... wouldn't put that kind of stress on my turbo without a vent for the backpressure.
Nor do I think that some of the changes being done are major enough to completely throw the car's balance out of whack either. If that were the case, we wouldn't have seen an S4s, or 50 different wing styles on Esprits over the Steven's model lifecycle alone
Mike
having more performance isnt just about going 195mph!! It means better pull at all rpms, a tighter clutch, smoother handling thats tighter in the turns. Gobs of power when you want and need it.
The ultimate lotus experience.
We dont buy these cars to drive like minivans. Give em more bite I say! Get better hoses and a better battery and if you want to take control of the boost DO IT! We all know stock is not the best that each of our esprit can be. New things help to bring the car into its own perfect potential. The car at its heart is the best in the world!
The ultimate lotus experience.
We dont buy these cars to drive like minivans. Give em more bite I say! Get better hoses and a better battery and if you want to take control of the boost DO IT! We all know stock is not the best that each of our esprit can be. New things help to bring the car into its own perfect potential. The car at its heart is the best in the world!
As with all my previous high performance cars I'll mod them so I will enjoy a increase in comfort and performance. I'll only use a percentage of the performance on the road but it will give me extra headroom when required.
On my Esprit I intend to do mainly interior mods to update to a more modern interior and give me a bit more room, as you guys say the performance is adequate but I think a little tweeking is good.
What mods do you think are good ones to do to every Esprit and what do you consider overkill for the average driver?
On my Esprit I intend to do mainly interior mods to update to a more modern interior and give me a bit more room, as you guys say the performance is adequate but I think a little tweeking is good.
What mods do you think are good ones to do to every Esprit and what do you consider overkill for the average driver?
dictys said:
As with all my previous high performance cars I'll mod them so I will enjoy a increase in comfort and performance. I'll only use a percentage of the performance on the road but it will give me extra headroom when required.
On my Esprit I intend to do mainly interior mods to update to a more modern interior and give me a bit more room, as you guys say the performance is adequate but I think a little tweeking is good.
What mods do you think are good ones to do to every Esprit and what do you consider overkill for the average driver?
Hi,
There are a variety of mods which can improve the car. I suppose the SS clutch upgrade is mandatory, yet, I'm sure most Esprits have not yet done this conversion.
The 3K RPM stumble seems mitigated by a chip upgrade, but I'm sure not many Esprit driver's knew of it (the stumble) before someone else told them about it.
This leads to my point, many people would have gone along no less satisfied with their cars if no one had told them of the upgrade, or if the upgrade were simply not available. It's the frenzy to instantly modify the car, often without getting to really know it first, which I find somewhat confusing.
I've heard numerous people, who've done some of the upgrades (chips, SS Hose, K&N Filter, etc.), state afterward that they discerned little, or no, difference in the car's performance. Perhaps if they are that out of tune with their vehicles, they didn't need them in the first place, or maybe there's a degree of placebic effect in many of the mods.
I guess I would define overkill as adding a mod which just isn't needed. I personally know two Esprit owners who, as a matter of course, never take their Esprits over 4K RPM! For them, many of these upgrades would be foolish.
Are Bragging Rights and Individualizing one's car justification for adding these mods? I suspect not as, if everyone is doing them, just where are the Bragging Rights or Individuality? I further suspect that there is a great deal of peer pressure to perform these mods, as if you aren't cool unless you do them.
I have modded my car significantly, but in each case, the mods done only when a repair was needed and they were either cheaper than going with stock parts or upgraded the failed part being replaced. As I have repeatedly said, everyone can do as they wish. I just think they should genuinely define the need themselves and should look at the car as a whole referring to my comments on maintaining the overall balance of the car. Realize that, even without these mods, you still own a car which will outperform clearly 90% of all other cars on the road. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Why make all these modifications when they aren't really "necessary?"
I think that was the premise of the original post. Is it necessary to have even the stock 350 horse and handling? Why not by some watered-down 2 cylinder 35 horsepower no frill buggy? Why even have a car? What about public transport? etc. etc.
Sure the mods most of us make are not "necessary", but then a lot of things are not necessary. Buying an Esprit is not "necessary", but it is done for the same reasons. The aesthetics of these cars is enhanced by performance. Even stock performance is not really "necessary", but it certainly adds to the appeal. Why buy an Esprit? Simply, it makes us feel good. Sure most of us will never need the limits of its performance, but if "need" or "necessity" was the basis for purchase then Yugo sales would go through the roof. Why make performance mods? Same reason. It makes us feel good. Sure most of us will never need the mods or push our cars to the limit, but "need" has nothing to do with it.
If you have an Esprit sitting in your garage, then you have no business questioning the motives of anyone who does a chip upgrade, bigger brakes etc. You should understand. If you didn't then you would drive a single seat electric powered crap-mobile.
Dirk
I think that was the premise of the original post. Is it necessary to have even the stock 350 horse and handling? Why not by some watered-down 2 cylinder 35 horsepower no frill buggy? Why even have a car? What about public transport? etc. etc.
Sure the mods most of us make are not "necessary", but then a lot of things are not necessary. Buying an Esprit is not "necessary", but it is done for the same reasons. The aesthetics of these cars is enhanced by performance. Even stock performance is not really "necessary", but it certainly adds to the appeal. Why buy an Esprit? Simply, it makes us feel good. Sure most of us will never need the limits of its performance, but if "need" or "necessity" was the basis for purchase then Yugo sales would go through the roof. Why make performance mods? Same reason. It makes us feel good. Sure most of us will never need the mods or push our cars to the limit, but "need" has nothing to do with it.
If you have an Esprit sitting in your garage, then you have no business questioning the motives of anyone who does a chip upgrade, bigger brakes etc. You should understand. If you didn't then you would drive a single seat electric powered crap-mobile.
Dirk
Well, I can't speak for others, but as I've owned a 2000 V8 for almost 2 years now and 20K miles, I have several areas which I plan to make updates/upgrades. I think most V8 owners (and others where applicable) would agree that the following should be improved:
1- Headlights - they were fine 50 years ago, but I think technology has improved more than a marginal amount.
2- Horns - fine for grandad's Buick, but... enough said.
3- Cooling - the fans are poor quality, period. Replace them with Spal fans, a much improved shroud for airflow and add fans for the oil coolers as well. Then add some additional control to regulate the radiator exit temperature. Even trying to find a larger radiator core would be welcome as it's pretty much at it's limit now.
4- Steering Wheel - no reasonable argument to keep it. Options exist for both non-airbag and airbag replacements.
5- Exhaust System - absolute poor manufacturing quality. An all stainless replacement from the turbos back would be a welcome upgrade. Less back pressure, better sound and reliability.
6- Heat shields - apparently not up to the task. Mine are cracking and rattling now. Perhaps a better grade of stainless or perhaps iconel replacements.
7- Air Filters - Delco papers are okay, but there are other options which include ITG and K&N. They offer higher flow and longer service intervals.
8- High-Torque ECM - for 1997 - 2001 model years.
9- Gearbox - Hate the damn thing! Now my second gearbox is acting up!! And NO, I drive it very easily... even got 20K miles from the original Michelin rears and avg 20+ MPG around town. I think the bellhousing is warped, which would explain the gearbox(s) taking a beating....
10 - Gearbox 2 - If yours is working okay, adding a pump, filter and cooler would be beneficial and help to extend the life.
11- Intercoolers - The V8 doesn't have them. Adding them is difficult. The main advantage (for me) is lower air temperatures which will help to extend engine life. The second advantage is the obvious one... better and more consistent performance.
So yes, Lotus does a wonderful job with the car overall, but always remember that they operate at a price point, hence many components are not the highest quality and many are at their operational limits. Also, due to limited production runs of vendor supplied parts, in many cases (like the V8 exhaust) the workmanship is horrible despite the materials being of good quality. So there are plenty of reasons to do some modifications... has nothing to do with trying to gain bragging rights, just to make the care more usable and more reliable.
Sorry for the long post.... just my $0.02.
Regards, KM
2000 V8 (with a few mods already)
1- Headlights - they were fine 50 years ago, but I think technology has improved more than a marginal amount.
2- Horns - fine for grandad's Buick, but... enough said.
3- Cooling - the fans are poor quality, period. Replace them with Spal fans, a much improved shroud for airflow and add fans for the oil coolers as well. Then add some additional control to regulate the radiator exit temperature. Even trying to find a larger radiator core would be welcome as it's pretty much at it's limit now.
4- Steering Wheel - no reasonable argument to keep it. Options exist for both non-airbag and airbag replacements.
5- Exhaust System - absolute poor manufacturing quality. An all stainless replacement from the turbos back would be a welcome upgrade. Less back pressure, better sound and reliability.
6- Heat shields - apparently not up to the task. Mine are cracking and rattling now. Perhaps a better grade of stainless or perhaps iconel replacements.
7- Air Filters - Delco papers are okay, but there are other options which include ITG and K&N. They offer higher flow and longer service intervals.
8- High-Torque ECM - for 1997 - 2001 model years.
9- Gearbox - Hate the damn thing! Now my second gearbox is acting up!! And NO, I drive it very easily... even got 20K miles from the original Michelin rears and avg 20+ MPG around town. I think the bellhousing is warped, which would explain the gearbox(s) taking a beating....
10 - Gearbox 2 - If yours is working okay, adding a pump, filter and cooler would be beneficial and help to extend the life.
11- Intercoolers - The V8 doesn't have them. Adding them is difficult. The main advantage (for me) is lower air temperatures which will help to extend engine life. The second advantage is the obvious one... better and more consistent performance.
So yes, Lotus does a wonderful job with the car overall, but always remember that they operate at a price point, hence many components are not the highest quality and many are at their operational limits. Also, due to limited production runs of vendor supplied parts, in many cases (like the V8 exhaust) the workmanship is horrible despite the materials being of good quality. So there are plenty of reasons to do some modifications... has nothing to do with trying to gain bragging rights, just to make the care more usable and more reliable.
Sorry for the long post.... just my $0.02.
Regards, KM
2000 V8 (with a few mods already)
It's not about bragging for me. I use my GT3 as an everyday car and I want more acceleration with more top end if poss. It's about chasing the buzz!
I go to work very early in the morning and often do 150mph plus on the deserted dual carrigeway. No lectures please, I'm a biker!
I've had 165 mph out of her now, but what I really want is more grunt through the gears and to smooth out the power delivery. This means the BOV, chip, filter, new brake discs and SS clutch pipe. My only other mod, which I've already done, is adding a Momo Millenium wheel. This is smaller and more practical and looks the nuts.
I only do it when the roads are empty and I'm not a perfect driver, but I cane it nearly everywhere. That's what it's for gents!
I go to work very early in the morning and often do 150mph plus on the deserted dual carrigeway. No lectures please, I'm a biker!
I've had 165 mph out of her now, but what I really want is more grunt through the gears and to smooth out the power delivery. This means the BOV, chip, filter, new brake discs and SS clutch pipe. My only other mod, which I've already done, is adding a Momo Millenium wheel. This is smaller and more practical and looks the nuts.
I only do it when the roads are empty and I'm not a perfect driver, but I cane it nearly everywhere. That's what it's for gents!
For my 2p,
I've owned my car for just over a year and have only just began a few simple modifications. These are mainly simple mods which enhance both the looks (IMO) and drivability of the car. I've added a stainless exhaust system and cotton air filter to the engine to assist in the breathing capabilities of the engine. The exhaust I believe should have been improved by Lotus. Especially when you consider Colin Chapmans views on weight saving. The old system weighs a ton!! I have also done some simple body mods, colour coding, adding a spoiler all of which I've done for me only. Each mod I do is given very careful consideration and I work on the premise if I don't like it I can always take it off and revert back. Other mods I'm doing are to upgrade the car to a newer model spec. Perhaps we would all enjoy a Sport 350 but we can still gain ample pleasure from an older car and if that involves mods and upgrades then so be it. My view is it's all down to a question of individual taste. For those people who wish to keep their cars stock and original good stuff, for those who wish to enhance an already great car good stuff. Each to their own.
Cheers
Alan Croft
89 Turbo
I've owned my car for just over a year and have only just began a few simple modifications. These are mainly simple mods which enhance both the looks (IMO) and drivability of the car. I've added a stainless exhaust system and cotton air filter to the engine to assist in the breathing capabilities of the engine. The exhaust I believe should have been improved by Lotus. Especially when you consider Colin Chapmans views on weight saving. The old system weighs a ton!! I have also done some simple body mods, colour coding, adding a spoiler all of which I've done for me only. Each mod I do is given very careful consideration and I work on the premise if I don't like it I can always take it off and revert back. Other mods I'm doing are to upgrade the car to a newer model spec. Perhaps we would all enjoy a Sport 350 but we can still gain ample pleasure from an older car and if that involves mods and upgrades then so be it. My view is it's all down to a question of individual taste. For those people who wish to keep their cars stock and original good stuff, for those who wish to enhance an already great car good stuff. Each to their own.
Cheers
Alan Croft
89 Turbo
dwall said:
Whats the SS Clutch upgrade ? Non techie here.
"Difficulty with gear changes in hot weather (Red Hose Syndrome)"
www.espritfactfile.com/Probs.html#DifficultyWithGearChanges
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