Wow, see this is what scares me..
Discussion
These are some of the worse reviews I have ever read about the Esprit from real owners:
www.carreview.com/Sports,Cars/Lotus,Esprit/PRD_183_1528crx.aspx
Squeaks and rattles? Terrible comfort level? 3 times in the shop in a row! Mirrors falling off! Damn, I had no idea they were THAT bad. See this is the only reason why I am scared to own one. Ill need like 10 grand a year extra just to maintain it for 2000 miles a year!
www.carreview.com/Sports,Cars/Lotus,Esprit/PRD_183_1528crx.aspx
Squeaks and rattles? Terrible comfort level? 3 times in the shop in a row! Mirrors falling off! Damn, I had no idea they were THAT bad. See this is the only reason why I am scared to own one. Ill need like 10 grand a year extra just to maintain it for 2000 miles a year!
In perspective the Esprit so far has been a little cheaper to run and the same reability as my Figaro. The figaro is a 1991 car but looks like a 1950 cars based on a Nissan Micra Floorplan.
Money spent on Esprit so far inc insurance tax and new CLUTCH plus some minor fixes approx £1000.
Money spent on Figaro so fay inc insurance tax and new Front Wheel Hub plus some minor fixes approx £1100.
Fun factor for both 9/10. The Esprit for speed and pure driving the Figaro because it makes me laugh and I cruise at 40 with the roof down and it feels just as good as any Italian Exotica. I've had people in Ferrari's and Porsches stop and admire both cars.
Rgds
Dictys
Money spent on Esprit so far inc insurance tax and new CLUTCH plus some minor fixes approx £1000.
Money spent on Figaro so fay inc insurance tax and new Front Wheel Hub plus some minor fixes approx £1100.
Fun factor for both 9/10. The Esprit for speed and pure driving the Figaro because it makes me laugh and I cruise at 40 with the roof down and it feels just as good as any Italian Exotica. I've had people in Ferrari's and Porsches stop and admire both cars.
Rgds
Dictys
LotusACBC,
Here is a comparison for you. This year I have spent about $1100 on my Esprit for maintenance (not including my BOV and chip upgrade...that was for fun.)
That does include my service in about 2 weeks for oil change, brake de-glazing and AC charge (the big culprit is the AC freon.) The cost for the brakes, oil and AC will be about 400 bucks.
In constrast, I just spent 750 dollars on my fiance's 92 Nissan Stanza, to get the brake job, new battery and AC charge.
My service bill this year will probably be about 1500 for the Esprit.
The Stanza may very well approach that number.
My previous daily drivers have matched and exceeded that number plenty of times (3 times I've had Chrysler trannies go at 1500-2K a pop.)
So maintenance doesn't have to be a nightmare any more than any other vehicle.
As for comfort:
My Esprit creaks and rattles. Ask me if I give a sh!t. I tend not to notice the creaks and rattles when my foot goes down and I am accelerating at blinding speed. Nor do I notice when I fly around corners. Adrenaline narrows your focus.
The cabin is extremely well laid out. I am more comfortable in the Esprit than I am in my brand new Hyundai. I've done a 4 hour trip and been totally comfortable. ight leg a little tired because no cruise control, but who cares?
I know the Esprit has long been one of your dream cars. Don't let other horror stories sway you. For some bizarre reason, when a Lotus breaks down, it's a huge deal that points to the badge's unreliability. But when I go through 3 Intrepid trannies in two cars in 2 years, noone seems to blanche at Chrysler reliability.
When you do go to buy, just make sure you buy a well sorted car, had it thouroughly checked out, and ideally know a good deal about the PO and the car history (like buying from a list member, etc.)
If you do that, you won't live the horror story.
And even so, at the other extreme end, ask AZZKICKER about it. He, like myself, is no millionaire playboy. His engine blew up on him, and he had it in the shop for a year, trying to pay off the repairs. He has it back on the road now. Ask him if he's not still in love with his Esprit.
It's a car you fall in love with. Rattles and repair bills just don't break up a true love affair like that.
Here is a comparison for you. This year I have spent about $1100 on my Esprit for maintenance (not including my BOV and chip upgrade...that was for fun.)
That does include my service in about 2 weeks for oil change, brake de-glazing and AC charge (the big culprit is the AC freon.) The cost for the brakes, oil and AC will be about 400 bucks.
In constrast, I just spent 750 dollars on my fiance's 92 Nissan Stanza, to get the brake job, new battery and AC charge.
My service bill this year will probably be about 1500 for the Esprit.
The Stanza may very well approach that number.
My previous daily drivers have matched and exceeded that number plenty of times (3 times I've had Chrysler trannies go at 1500-2K a pop.)
So maintenance doesn't have to be a nightmare any more than any other vehicle.
As for comfort:
My Esprit creaks and rattles. Ask me if I give a sh!t. I tend not to notice the creaks and rattles when my foot goes down and I am accelerating at blinding speed. Nor do I notice when I fly around corners. Adrenaline narrows your focus.
The cabin is extremely well laid out. I am more comfortable in the Esprit than I am in my brand new Hyundai. I've done a 4 hour trip and been totally comfortable. ight leg a little tired because no cruise control, but who cares?
I know the Esprit has long been one of your dream cars. Don't let other horror stories sway you. For some bizarre reason, when a Lotus breaks down, it's a huge deal that points to the badge's unreliability. But when I go through 3 Intrepid trannies in two cars in 2 years, noone seems to blanche at Chrysler reliability.
When you do go to buy, just make sure you buy a well sorted car, had it thouroughly checked out, and ideally know a good deal about the PO and the car history (like buying from a list member, etc.)
If you do that, you won't live the horror story.
And even so, at the other extreme end, ask AZZKICKER about it. He, like myself, is no millionaire playboy. His engine blew up on him, and he had it in the shop for a year, trying to pay off the repairs. He has it back on the road now. Ask him if he's not still in love with his Esprit.
It's a car you fall in love with. Rattles and repair bills just don't break up a true love affair like that.
Dictys - Very interesting comparo!
Madmike - I got to say, you just alleviated some of my concerns. I suppose it wont be so bad if like you said I buy from a list member and/or someone who has done all the proper maintenance and even perhaps went further as to replace older components with newer ones such as red hose and the master cylinder. Your so right about how if something goes wrong, Lotus is branded unreliable, but when something like a tranny on a Chrysler goes its just no big deal
Perhaps it wont be all that bad.
Madmike - I got to say, you just alleviated some of my concerns. I suppose it wont be so bad if like you said I buy from a list member and/or someone who has done all the proper maintenance and even perhaps went further as to replace older components with newer ones such as red hose and the master cylinder. Your so right about how if something goes wrong, Lotus is branded unreliable, but when something like a tranny on a Chrysler goes its just no big deal
Perhaps it wont be all that bad.
Amazing coinkydink, when I was typing that last bit about AZZKICKER (Andy), he called me at work. He's really happy to be out and about in his Esprit, and he's about to go for a blat right now. He's a big gearhead himself, and I don't think he'd mind me divulging his confession, but he admitted he's found himself a car he's going to stick with for a long time.
Gotta love the Esprits!!!!!
Gotta love the Esprits!!!!!
madmike said:
Amazing coinkydink, when I was typing that last bit about AZZKICKER (Andy), he called me at work. He's really happy to be out and about in his Esprit, and he's about to go for a blat right now. He's a big gearhead himself, and I don't think he'd mind me divulging his confession, but he admitted he's found himself a car he's going to stick with for a long time.
Gotta love the Esprits!!!!!
Good for him! I would love to meet you guys i tell you that. Just BS about Lotus and see your rides! The gathering in NIagra Falls, its th 15th through 17th right? Is it too late to inquire about it.
Apart from general maintanace, I haven't had to pay for anything else.
This is one of my S4s bills for the last year:
Service - A$1,200 (US$600)
Tyres - A$2,300 (US$1,150) - doesn't need them every year, obviously
Detail - A$300 (US$150) x 2 - that's just vanity
And that's it.
Second S4s came in January. Apart from tinting the windows, I haven't spent a single cent on it yet - doesn't need it. This second S4s is ctually Esprit number 5 that I have owned. I have never been stranded anywhere, I never had to spend anything above general maintanace. Each Esprit I've ever had has been used as daily driver.
Comfort wise, my wife has a bad back. The ONLY car she's ever been comfortable in is the Esprit.
BTW, I didn't mention insurance. That's what kills me. There is only one insurer in Aust that insures under 30's for an Esprit, so even with Rating 1/max bonus, I pay A$4,800 (US$2,400) each year for each car. Next March, as I turn 30, I'll be able to choose out of a huge number of insurers, for a quarter of that amount.
This is one of my S4s bills for the last year:
Service - A$1,200 (US$600)
Tyres - A$2,300 (US$1,150) - doesn't need them every year, obviously
Detail - A$300 (US$150) x 2 - that's just vanity
And that's it.
Second S4s came in January. Apart from tinting the windows, I haven't spent a single cent on it yet - doesn't need it. This second S4s is ctually Esprit number 5 that I have owned. I have never been stranded anywhere, I never had to spend anything above general maintanace. Each Esprit I've ever had has been used as daily driver.
Comfort wise, my wife has a bad back. The ONLY car she's ever been comfortable in is the Esprit.
BTW, I didn't mention insurance. That's what kills me. There is only one insurer in Aust that insures under 30's for an Esprit, so even with Rating 1/max bonus, I pay A$4,800 (US$2,400) each year for each car. Next March, as I turn 30, I'll be able to choose out of a huge number of insurers, for a quarter of that amount.
LotusACBC said:
Good for him! I would love to meet you guys i tell you that. Just BS about Lotus and see your rides! The gathering in NIagra Falls, its th 15th through 17th right? Is it too late to inquire about it.
Absolutely not too late. The hotel is filling up (tho there are others in the area) but you can still register for LOG to attend.
Here is the link for LOG: www.lotuscarclub.org/loginfo.htm
Also, you can see my running costs for my 1 1/2 years of ownership here, along with all moy other car info:
www.metalasylum.com/evilyn
Mad Mike The Web Site Whore
Andecorp - Not bad at all!So you figure take away the tires, and the detail and it was only $600 to run for that year.
Mike - Thanks for the links. I dont think I will be able to get there unfortunately. I wish I could, but that weekend I have 2 other "gatherings" i have to attend. One is a motorcycle track day in the Poconos ans the other is a concert. But who knows. How much is the hotel to stay at? And what is Tech Sessions? In other words, Im trying to figure out how much this Niagra Falls trip would run me. Of course if I did come it would be in my Jeep, no Lotus
But I could take pics and film for the web site!
Mike - Thanks for the links. I dont think I will be able to get there unfortunately. I wish I could, but that weekend I have 2 other "gatherings" i have to attend. One is a motorcycle track day in the Poconos ans the other is a concert. But who knows. How much is the hotel to stay at? And what is Tech Sessions? In other words, Im trying to figure out how much this Niagra Falls trip would run me. Of course if I did come it would be in my Jeep, no Lotus
But I could take pics and film for the web site!These people that had things go wrong all had the same common problem. Not doing things yourself. These people probably could not tell if something was going wrong and kept driving it till it totally failed. Some of the symptoms of something going wrong is very subtle. Lack of certified mechanics. Do it yourself. It like anything else more you do the better you become. Andy's back? Well I wonder how much the rebuild cost? The guy selling crate SE engines with new turbo and ECU would have been a good deal for him for 5K to just drop the engine in and drive. I'm sure he ended up paying much more than that.
Calvin
Calvin
Calvin
Calvin
cnh1990 said:
These people that had things go wrong all had the same common problem. Not doing things yourself. These people probably could not tell if something was going wrong and kept driving it till it totally failed. Some of the symptoms of something going wrong is very subtle. Lack of certified mechanics. Do it yourself. It like anything else more you do the better you become. Andy's back? Well I wonder how much the rebuild cost? The guy selling crate SE engines with new turbo and ECU would have been a good deal for him for 5K to just drop the engine in and drive. I'm sure he ended up paying much more than that.
Calvin
Calvin
I was under the impression, from other posts around, that these 5K crate engines were not the same engine from the SE/S4. As is, he got the rebuild, and the S4s header, and he says the car is quicker than it was pre-blowup.
I think you're fairly harsh on us non-mechanic types Calvin (here and on the Yahoo list.) Just because I don't turn a wrench doesn't mean I can't tell when something is going bad. I (and Andy) have a great mechanic who loves to talk to me on the phone...any question I know who to call.
If it took a mechanic to be a good owner, Lotus probably would have gone under long ago. That's exactly what specialist mechanics are for too. As far as I know, myself and my PO never had a catastrophic failure and neither of us turn wrenches.
Knowing your way around an engine is a big help if you are an Esprit owner, but I don't believe it's a pre-requisite for being a good owner or having a trouble free car. Having the mentality to fix/get things fixed at the first hint of trouble is.
Edited to add: Sorry if this post sounded saucy Calvin. I'm in a bit of a mood today
>> Edited by madmike on Thursday 24th July 18:41
LotusACBC said:
CNH1990, im going to Ozz Fest EARLY monday morning and the ride from where I am to the Meet is about 8 hours!
Are there any other charges besides the Hotel. Like entry fees into an area or...
>> Edited by LotusACBC on Thursday 24th July 18:55
Umm, I was the one who asked.
Yes, there is a fee to get onto the LOG concourse...download the reg form and take a peak.
Ozzfest is a respectable show. Not going this year, as nothing on the lineup got me too excited. I went the year they reuinted as Sabbath and played. That was a killer show.
The concourse is Saturday. You could ride up Friday, and back Saturday night or Sunday morning. You know you want to...
Edited to add:
If you just did the Saturday concourse, 75 bucks. If you do the dinner too, circa 100 bucks on top of your hotel. That's dirt cheap for a nice weekend getaway.
And if you join Lotus Ltd, you get the price break, so the membership essentially pays for itself.
>> Edited by madmike on Thursday 24th July 19:04
madmike said:
Umm, I was the one who asked.
Yes, there is a fee to get onto the LOG concourse...download the reg form and take a peak.
Ozzfest is a respectable show. Not going this year, as nothing on the lineup got me too excited. I went the year they reuinted as Sabbath and played. That was a killer show.
The concourse is Saturday. You could ride up Friday, and back Saturday night or Sunday morning. You know you want to...
Edited to add:
If you just did the Saturday concourse, 75 bucks. If you do the dinner too, circa 100 bucks on top of your hotel. That's dirt cheap for a nice weekend getaway.
And if you join Lotus Ltd, you get the price break, so the membership essentially pays for itself.
>> Edited by madmike on Thursday 24th July 19:04
Sorry, got ya two mixed up.
I would bring a guest of course if I went. But that still leaves the Track Day I had scheduled that same weekend. Im not sure what to do. I want to go to the Lotus meet and meet all of you as well as see all the fine vehicles. Ozz Fest should be great. Im only really going to see KoRn and a few others!
Mike Griese an owner picked up one of these engines. It's an SE motor with all the accessories. It had the turbo, ECU, everything ready to drop in.
I would suppose if Andy has the S4s head it should make a bit more of a difference. But there is also what I call diminishing return for the money spent. I probably would have just dropped in the SE motor for 5K and have the car back on the road immediately. But thats me I hate for the car to be down for any length of time
A lot of people can tell major differences in performance or when something is going wrong.
Could they tell if a wheel bearing was loose? Probably not. If caught early all you need to do is give it a turn of the hub nut to adjust it. Left on it's own hey it's time for new bearings and maybe other parts. Big difference in price, free for the adjustment as opposed to several hundred to a mechanic. Could these people we are talking about tell if a timing belt was a tad loose by giving it a twist and adjust it before a fun day at the track. Probably not. Well that means is the belt could jump, they could end up dropping a valve, etc. Just a small difference between a fun filled day and a depressing day. All where you spend your money. If you have the cash and want to spend it that way it's fine.
It will also give a person insight to what they risk by driving their cars a certain way and what it takes to repair it. I think all of us at one time or another have seen some people stress their cars only to have them wonder why the car or engine broke down.
Yes, somethings things happen for no reason but most of the time it's not bad luck, it not knowing or realizing what the car is trying to tell you.
It has always been my wish to have people do their own work. It's helps become one with the car. It's part of the hobby. I don't think there is one person in our club that sends their car to the shop. We will stop people from doing that and either help the person do it themselves or sometimes even do the work for each other. It also builds lasting friendships when something terrible happens and 3-4 or more people come together and have an engine pulling or installation party. To have this done for the cost of a few pizzas and refreshments is a cheap price to pay, not to mention a bit more satisfiying.
To pay a mechanic or not to pay is not the thing. I just don't like to hear the whining and whimpering about the work that needs to be done.
Some people think these cars should be as reliable as the daily driver. I do not give my daily driver a good weekly inspection. My daily driver would not be as reliable if I drove it like a Lotus.
Calvin
PS It is not a pre-requisite to be a mechanically inclined to be an owner. We are a long ways away from when the Elan used to come out of a crate, like at Christmas (some assembly required).
Mike, Frank the (PO) was pretty fanatical and was not an ordinary owner. For the lack of better words almost bordering on some sort of illness. That guy would have work done on his car just because. aI don't think he was happy unless there was work going on his car. You have a very nice car.
>> Edited by cnh1990 on Thursday 24th July 19:48
I would suppose if Andy has the S4s head it should make a bit more of a difference. But there is also what I call diminishing return for the money spent. I probably would have just dropped in the SE motor for 5K and have the car back on the road immediately. But thats me I hate for the car to be down for any length of time
A lot of people can tell major differences in performance or when something is going wrong.
Could they tell if a wheel bearing was loose? Probably not. If caught early all you need to do is give it a turn of the hub nut to adjust it. Left on it's own hey it's time for new bearings and maybe other parts. Big difference in price, free for the adjustment as opposed to several hundred to a mechanic. Could these people we are talking about tell if a timing belt was a tad loose by giving it a twist and adjust it before a fun day at the track. Probably not. Well that means is the belt could jump, they could end up dropping a valve, etc. Just a small difference between a fun filled day and a depressing day. All where you spend your money. If you have the cash and want to spend it that way it's fine.
It will also give a person insight to what they risk by driving their cars a certain way and what it takes to repair it. I think all of us at one time or another have seen some people stress their cars only to have them wonder why the car or engine broke down.
Yes, somethings things happen for no reason but most of the time it's not bad luck, it not knowing or realizing what the car is trying to tell you.
It has always been my wish to have people do their own work. It's helps become one with the car. It's part of the hobby. I don't think there is one person in our club that sends their car to the shop. We will stop people from doing that and either help the person do it themselves or sometimes even do the work for each other. It also builds lasting friendships when something terrible happens and 3-4 or more people come together and have an engine pulling or installation party. To have this done for the cost of a few pizzas and refreshments is a cheap price to pay, not to mention a bit more satisfiying.
To pay a mechanic or not to pay is not the thing. I just don't like to hear the whining and whimpering about the work that needs to be done.
Some people think these cars should be as reliable as the daily driver. I do not give my daily driver a good weekly inspection. My daily driver would not be as reliable if I drove it like a Lotus.
Calvin
PS It is not a pre-requisite to be a mechanically inclined to be an owner. We are a long ways away from when the Elan used to come out of a crate, like at Christmas (some assembly required).
Mike, Frank the (PO) was pretty fanatical and was not an ordinary owner. For the lack of better words almost bordering on some sort of illness. That guy would have work done on his car just because. aI don't think he was happy unless there was work going on his car. You have a very nice car.
>> Edited by cnh1990 on Thursday 24th July 19:48
Don't get me wrong Calvin, if I could, I would. But I didn't grow up with any kind of car-know-how. Even at this point I probably can do more than pops can with a car, and that's not much.
When I can, I do, such as with the BOV and chip. And when I can afford to do the brake upgrade I have planned, I'd like to do it myself with some help from folks in-the-know.
Someday I do hope to have built up some DIY knowledge, re: cars and motors. But I wasn't going to wait to buy an Esprit for that day! So slowly I get my hands dirty, and in the meantime, pay my mechanic to do the really crucial work/work I can't do.
Mike (Doesn't help I don't have a garage either...)
By the way, I'm glad people like you post all the time...if not, people like me who didn't grow up around motors would never get a clue
When I can, I do, such as with the BOV and chip. And when I can afford to do the brake upgrade I have planned, I'd like to do it myself with some help from folks in-the-know.
Someday I do hope to have built up some DIY knowledge, re: cars and motors. But I wasn't going to wait to buy an Esprit for that day! So slowly I get my hands dirty, and in the meantime, pay my mechanic to do the really crucial work/work I can't do.
Mike (Doesn't help I don't have a garage either...)
By the way, I'm glad people like you post all the time...if not, people like me who didn't grow up around motors would never get a clue
CNH - I totally agree with working on your own car to build a certain relationship with it. And liek you said, do what you can do, know what to do, or have the help of others to do, and whatever you cant handle, then spend the money. I must feel the same way since I have had 3 Mustang 5.0s and thoroughly enjoyed building them up with myself, my father and cousin. Not that I am THAT mechanically inclined, but for a Lotus, I dont think I would mind working on it myself. Its really not hard at all. Just unscrew the things you want to chance, screw them back (in simple terms anyway). the hardest part is remembering where it all went, how to get to it, etc etc
MadMike - So you leave your Esprit outside? Do you feel safe that way? For instance in my situaiton, I have a 2 car garage, but I cant use it. I would never leave an Esprit outside my house. Covered or not, there are too many bad kids around here that I wouldnt be able to sleep at night. not that they would steal it, but all it takes is one rock thrown on it, or keyed. And I live i a good neighborhood believe it or not! But there is always that one group of little bastards...
MadMike - So you leave your Esprit outside? Do you feel safe that way? For instance in my situaiton, I have a 2 car garage, but I cant use it. I would never leave an Esprit outside my house. Covered or not, there are too many bad kids around here that I wouldnt be able to sleep at night. not that they would steal it, but all it takes is one rock thrown on it, or keyed. And I live i a good neighborhood believe it or not! But there is always that one group of little bastards...
I have good company in the area where I live.
Jim is 20 min. away just across the river.
Keen Young is about the same distance away just to the north.
Tim Engel is 25 min. west.
Lot of good Lotus people around here. The even Dealer asks us questions about the cars. We usually man the Lotus booth at the car show for the local dealer in exchange for free admitance to the show.
Keep up the good work and soon you will be the local Lotus guru in your area. Maybe one day we will both reach that status.
Calvin
Jim is 20 min. away just across the river.
Keen Young is about the same distance away just to the north.
Tim Engel is 25 min. west.
Lot of good Lotus people around here. The even Dealer asks us questions about the cars. We usually man the Lotus booth at the car show for the local dealer in exchange for free admitance to the show.
Keep up the good work and soon you will be the local Lotus guru in your area. Maybe one day we will both reach that status.
Calvin
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