Discussion
Hi All,
Hoping for suggestions on a small problem:
I find that I feel a great deal of vibration through my steering wheel (wobble) when my car is cold. When I have been driving for a while and the tires warm up it seems to improve a great deal. I have had the wheels professionally balanced and they balance out fine. The only thing that I can think of is that the tires are out of whack somehow and when they warm up somehow they fall back in to whack???? The tires have plenty of wear left but the have been on the car for about 4 years (car was sat off road for about that amount of time)
Any ideas would be much appreciated. FYI I have the non-power-assisted rack (88 Turbo with the Citroen gearbox).
Thanks,
Mark (AZ88Turbo).
Hoping for suggestions on a small problem:
I find that I feel a great deal of vibration through my steering wheel (wobble) when my car is cold. When I have been driving for a while and the tires warm up it seems to improve a great deal. I have had the wheels professionally balanced and they balance out fine. The only thing that I can think of is that the tires are out of whack somehow and when they warm up somehow they fall back in to whack???? The tires have plenty of wear left but the have been on the car for about 4 years (car was sat off road for about that amount of time)
Any ideas would be much appreciated. FYI I have the non-power-assisted rack (88 Turbo with the Citroen gearbox).
Thanks,
Mark (AZ88Turbo).
AZ88Turbo said:
Hi All,
Hoping for suggestions on a small problem:
I find that I feel a great deal of vibration through my steering wheel (wobble) when my car is cold. When I have been driving for a while and the tires warm up it seems to improve a great deal. I have had the wheels professionally balanced and they balance out fine. The only thing that I can think of is that the tires are out of whack somehow and when they warm up somehow they fall back in to whack???? The tires have plenty of wear left but the have been on the car for about 4 years (car was sat off road for about that amount of time)
Any ideas would be much appreciated. FYI I have the non-power-assisted rack (88 Turbo with the Citroen gearbox).
Thanks,
Mark (AZ88Turbo).
Mark,
Have you checked for play in the wheel bearings? When the tires are cold, they'll transmit this play to the steering column, but once the tires heat up and the sidewalls begin to flex more, they can mask the symptoms.
Raise the wheel off the ground and grabbing each side of the tire, try to wobble the wheel, if you can, your wheel bearings are loose and will need inspection and retightening. Other than that, it could be tie rod ends, or the 'U' joints in the steering column itself which could account for the amount of play you have. Hopr this helps. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Mark,
Also, personally, I would consider 4 year old tires near the end of their useful life. Regardless of the amount of tread on them, 4 year old tires will become hard and may have some dry rot occuring in them. Also, it's easier for an older tire to delaminate. This may be another possible cause of the vibration you feel.
Rarely do we wear tires out on these cars, rather, the tire usually deteriorates before the tread is used up. I would suggest that you start budgeting for some new ones and keep an eye out for any specials which may come along in the next few months.
As a rule, with my car driven about 4K-5K mi. each year, I plan on a tire replacement in either year 4 or 5. My last 5 y.o. set had at least 40% useable tread left, but the tires had hardened and lost much of their adhesion qualities and flexibility, so I replaced them. This can be as much a safety issue as anything. Hope this helps. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Also, personally, I would consider 4 year old tires near the end of their useful life. Regardless of the amount of tread on them, 4 year old tires will become hard and may have some dry rot occuring in them. Also, it's easier for an older tire to delaminate. This may be another possible cause of the vibration you feel.
Rarely do we wear tires out on these cars, rather, the tire usually deteriorates before the tread is used up. I would suggest that you start budgeting for some new ones and keep an eye out for any specials which may come along in the next few months.
As a rule, with my car driven about 4K-5K mi. each year, I plan on a tire replacement in either year 4 or 5. My last 5 y.o. set had at least 40% useable tread left, but the tires had hardened and lost much of their adhesion qualities and flexibility, so I replaced them. This can be as much a safety issue as anything. Hope this helps. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Mark,
I had something similar on my 88MY X180 Turbo. It turned out to be a wheel alignment (tracking) problem. I also had vibration from the rears caused by a sticking handbrake.
Another cause of wobble ( a bit more unusual) is if someone has hit the kerb with a tyre, dislodged rubber on the inside of the tyre which then goes round as a ball inside the tyre, throwing the wheel out of balance.
I think my first suggestion is most likely.
Kind regards
Alan
I had something similar on my 88MY X180 Turbo. It turned out to be a wheel alignment (tracking) problem. I also had vibration from the rears caused by a sticking handbrake.
Another cause of wobble ( a bit more unusual) is if someone has hit the kerb with a tyre, dislodged rubber on the inside of the tyre which then goes round as a ball inside the tyre, throwing the wheel out of balance.
I think my first suggestion is most likely.
Kind regards
Alan
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all of the great advice. I checked the bearing play as Jim suggested and there seems to be none. I think that I will just replace the front tires as a next step. I agree with Jim that 4 year old tires are about ready for replacement.
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again,
Mark (AZ88Turbo)
Thanks for all of the great advice. I checked the bearing play as Jim suggested and there seems to be none. I think that I will just replace the front tires as a next step. I agree with Jim that 4 year old tires are about ready for replacement.
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again,
Mark (AZ88Turbo)
That is very good advice about replacing the tires. At the speeds we sometimes drive it would be very unfortunate to have a tire mishap.
I have just about worn my rears (near the wear bars) in just a little over 17K miles of driving in 3 years.
The original set of fronts had half tread life but the tires were starting to dry rot when I first bought the car.
Calvin
I have just about worn my rears (near the wear bars) in just a little over 17K miles of driving in 3 years.
The original set of fronts had half tread life but the tires were starting to dry rot when I first bought the car.
Calvin
I just checked for "play" in the bearings and everything seems very tight with no play at all in the wheel bearings or the steering linkages.
A couple of things I do notice: The car has wheel-spacers (20mm each front and 25mm each rear). Also the tires on the front look to be wearing much more on the inside than they do on the outside which I understand can be a sign of incorrect alignment or tracking?
I also just noticed that the tires also appear to be only "R" rated (Dunlop SP Sport D40 M2) front and rear which as I understand it is not a high enough speed rating for this car. I would appreciate someone telling me I am wrong about the speed rating here please as I am not feeling too good about the 140-150mph I have taken the car to a couple of times.
Thanks in advance for any more help folks.
Mark (AZ88Turbo)
A couple of things I do notice: The car has wheel-spacers (20mm each front and 25mm each rear). Also the tires on the front look to be wearing much more on the inside than they do on the outside which I understand can be a sign of incorrect alignment or tracking?
I also just noticed that the tires also appear to be only "R" rated (Dunlop SP Sport D40 M2) front and rear which as I understand it is not a high enough speed rating for this car. I would appreciate someone telling me I am wrong about the speed rating here please as I am not feeling too good about the 140-150mph I have taken the car to a couple of times.
Thanks in advance for any more help folks.
Mark (AZ88Turbo)
AZ88Turbo said:
I just checked for "play" in the bearings and everything seems very tight with no play at all in the wheel bearings or the steering linkages.
A couple of things I do notice: The car has wheel-spacers (20mm each front and 25mm each rear). Also the tires on the front look to be wearing much more on the inside than they do on the outside which I understand can be a sign of incorrect alignment or tracking?
I also just noticed that the tires also appear to be only "R" rated (Dunlop SP Sport D40 M2) front and rear which as I understand it is not a high enough speed rating for this car. I would appreciate someone telling me I am wrong about the speed rating here please as I am not feeling too good about the 140-150mph I have taken the car to a couple of times.
Thanks in advance for any more help folks.
Mark (AZ88Turbo)
Mark,
The wheel spacers are a little weird because Lotus doesn't use them. Aftermarket wheels? If so, and the offset etc. isn't correct, it'll be pretty hard to preserve to spec'd suspension geometry. Lotus does use spacers to determine the front end caster on the upper ball joints. Toe-in is set with the tie rod ends and camber is not adjustable on the '88. I'd recommend loosing the wheel spacers, if possible and see what effect that has. Have the car aligned front and back. As suggested, there may be a rear setting which is upsetting the car's balance. Again, if you have aftermarket wheels, these may fit, but could be incompatible with the car's suspension. And, there's always the possibility that one or both of the lower control arms is slightly bent, in which case, the alignment will always be off 'til you replace it.
As far as the tire rating, I believe that the Dunlop D40 M2 is a 'Z' rated tire, but was introduced before the ratings were applied to the tire. While there is an 'R' rating, you want at least an 'H' rated tire if your speeds are exceeding 135 for short bursts. For sustained high speed driving, you'll want a 'Z' rated tire as it is designed to manage the heat of sustaianed high speed driving where the other ratings are not. Hope this helps. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
AZ88Turbo said:
Thinking of buying new tires for this. Does anyone know what effect it would have on handling if I buy lower profile tires? I currently have 195/65/15 on the fronts and would like to go to 195/55/15. Would it be beneficial, adverse or no difference?
Thanks,
Mark (AZ88Turbo)
Mark,
the difference in aspect ratio is so slight as to have probably no discernable difference at all, especially on the front tires.
If changing the aspect ratio on rear (drive) tires, lowering the ratio will slightly reduce your top speed (a couple MPH), increase engine RPM's slightly for a given speed (a hundred or so RPM) , and throw the speedo off (or, in the case of the Esprit off more ).
But while you have the chance to change them, why not take adavntage of the opportunity and increase the tread width of the fronts to say 205mm or even 215mm. This will decrease/eliminate the Esprit's tendency for Understeer. Switching from 195's to 205's in my car all but eliminated this tendency. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Jim,
I was wondering about that and now you mention it I think I will do that. Is there any chance of the larger width tires rubbing? The main reason I want to change the profile of the fronts now is that they rub a little on the wheel well when I do a "full lock" turn (parking and the like). I think this is due to the spacer's that are on there.
I was wondering about that and now you mention it I think I will do that. Is there any chance of the larger width tires rubbing? The main reason I want to change the profile of the fronts now is that they rub a little on the wheel well when I do a "full lock" turn (parking and the like). I think this is due to the spacer's that are on there.
AZ88Turbo said:
Jim,
I was wondering about that and now you mention it I think I will do that. Is there any chance of the larger width tires rubbing? The main reason I want to change the profile of the fronts now is that they rub a little on the wheel well when I do a "full lock" turn (parking and the like). I think this is due to the spacer's that are on there.
Mark,
It definitely sounds as if you are running aftermarket wheels, and possibly some which are not compatible with the car with respect to offset and the like. Sometimes you have to choose between aesthetics and functionality.
I know that w/ stock wheels and suspension, you can go up to 215 w/o any rubbing. I know a guy who is running 225's on the fronts and gets only the slightest rubbing when against the lock, but it's so slight, he's willing to put up with it for the better tracking he gets from the wider rubber. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Hey Jim,
The wheels are stock (oz and were shipped as standard with my car). I think it has to be the spacers. They bring each wheel out 20mm on each side of the car so this I think is the problem. I am thinking that going to 205/50s (103mm) from 195/65s (125mm) will help with the rubbing. If not I'll just have to take the spacers off and see how it rides. As I mentioned before; it seems to handle much better with the spacers on. I'm thinking the Dunlop SP8000 are the best tires to go for here in Arizona. What are your thoughts on that?
The wheels are stock (oz and were shipped as standard with my car). I think it has to be the spacers. They bring each wheel out 20mm on each side of the car so this I think is the problem. I am thinking that going to 205/50s (103mm) from 195/65s (125mm) will help with the rubbing. If not I'll just have to take the spacers off and see how it rides. As I mentioned before; it seems to handle much better with the spacers on. I'm thinking the Dunlop SP8000 are the best tires to go for here in Arizona. What are your thoughts on that?
AZ88Turbo said:
Hey Jim,
The wheels are stock (oz and were shipped as standard with my car). I think it has to be the spacers. They bring each wheel out 20mm on each side of the car so this I think is the problem. I am thinking that going to 205/50s (103mm) from 195/65s (125mm) will help with the rubbing. If not I'll just have to take the spacers off and see how it rides. As I mentioned before; it seems to handle much better with the spacers on. I'm thinking the Dunlop SP8000 are the best tires to go for here in Arizona. What are your thoughts on that?
Mark,
I have the Dunlop SP Sport 8000's on my car sizes 205/50ZR 15 Front and 245/50ZR 15 rear. They are the best tire I have ever run on for any of my many past performance cars. They have excellent traction and wet performance.
I was turned on to them by a friend who's run them on his '88 for many years and is an experienced spec and vintage racer. I just hope they're still available when the time comes to replace this set, because unless some 'super' tire comes along in the meantime, I'll buy a second pair in a heartbeat.
I have also since recommended this tire to several Esprit owners and all were pleased with the tire's price, look, availability and capabilities. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Mark,
One thought on your wobble, take a look at the upper ball joints. If the boot is cracked, then it's likely the whole joint is shot. This would manifest itself into a slight wobble. Replacing these is pretty straightforward, unbolt the two bolts holding it to the upper control arms, unbolt the joint itself from the lower control arm and drive the joint through the control arm w/ a hammer and drift. Refitting is the reverse. Costs about $50 for the pair and takes a little over an hour to do the swap. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
One thought on your wobble, take a look at the upper ball joints. If the boot is cracked, then it's likely the whole joint is shot. This would manifest itself into a slight wobble. Replacing these is pretty straightforward, unbolt the two bolts holding it to the upper control arms, unbolt the joint itself from the lower control arm and drive the joint through the control arm w/ a hammer and drift. Refitting is the reverse. Costs about $50 for the pair and takes a little over an hour to do the swap. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Jim,
I had one of the ball joins replaced when I had the timing belt done about 3 months ago, the other one looked ok but I'll check it again. I have a sneaking suspision that it is the tires. They are Dunlop Sport D40's. The PO said that they didn't change them and she had the car for 4 years. I'm starting to wonder if they were the origional tires? The car has 27k miles on it and the tires are showing about that much wear (but still have lots of tread). I wonder if there is any way to tell how old they are? Any ideas?
I had one of the ball joins replaced when I had the timing belt done about 3 months ago, the other one looked ok but I'll check it again. I have a sneaking suspision that it is the tires. They are Dunlop Sport D40's. The PO said that they didn't change them and she had the car for 4 years. I'm starting to wonder if they were the origional tires? The car has 27k miles on it and the tires are showing about that much wear (but still have lots of tread). I wonder if there is any way to tell how old they are? Any ideas?
I got the new tires fitted on the front yesterday, took your advise about the size Jim. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The wobble has almost gone (but not quite), the ride is much smoother, the oversteer has gone (handles like a dream now, never thought it would make so much difference). Fonund out when the tires were made from the number on the inside; 1996! The new ones for the rear are already on order.
AZ88Turbo said:
I got the new tires fitted on the front yesterday, took your advise about the size Jim. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The wobble has almost gone (but not quite), the ride is much smoother, the oversteer has gone (handles like a dream now, never thought it would make so much difference). Fonund out when the tires were made from the number on the inside; 1996! The new ones for the rear are already on order.
Mark,
Glad the new tires worked out so well for you. In point of fact, Lotus originally spec's the car to run 205's, but concerns about steering effort (especially with no power assist) when parking caused them to downsize the tire width to 195mm and the car acquired a pronounced understeer as a result. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
lotusguy said:
In point of fact, Lotus originally spec's the car to run 205's, but concerns about steering effort (especially with no power assist) when parking caused them to downsize the tire width to 195mm and the car acquired a pronounced understeer as a result. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Even my 215 has a understeer until the adjustable link made it more like neutral. Got a little sideways on first run after the new links during the Fox and Hounds.
Calvin
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