Strange Behavio(u)r After Chipping? / Proper Perf?
Discussion
I recenty installed the Moto Concept #3 chip in my S4 (from Sanj) and now every time it starts up cold (even though I've driven ~50+ miles total since the swap) the engine revs at about 2500 RPM and oil pressure is very high (I think). After 2-3 minutes the RPMs will suddenly drop and it sounds like it is going to stall, but then the engines catches its self and stays steady at ~1000RPM, however the oil pressure remains on the right side of of the half way point until I drive a few miles at which time it settles back to a vertical/slightly left of center position. Is this normal?
Also, while may car seems quicker, its not as quick as I expected -- perhaps I was effected by the hype? Is there a way (other than a dyno) to know for sure the chip is during was it supposed to?
Luke.
Also, while may car seems quicker, its not as quick as I expected -- perhaps I was effected by the hype? Is there a way (other than a dyno) to know for sure the chip is during was it supposed to?
Luke.
That doesn't seem normal to me and I've used that chip before. I would remove the chip again, re-seat it, and start over. A friend of mine had a similar behavior on his after chipping the car and it just wasn't properly seated. After removal and doing it again all was well. Not saying that is what is wrong but it is worth a shot.
Ron
Ron
Depends on a lot of things - engine condition, oil, temperature, etc. But, if it is cold outside I can easily hit 75 psi and over on start up, 6 bar or more. Once the engine is warm, in cool weather I am about in the middle of the gauge at idle. Once warm I'm usually around 45 psi at idle with a hot day, sometimes 30psi at 90F plus.
I don't think the stock gauge is to be trusted though. It is just not a very accurate reading. Mine bounces around like my fuel gauge. At idle it is 1 notch out of the red. On Cruising it is 3-4 notches from the red. You need an aftermarket gauge to read the true pressure. Not too long ago someone on this board suspected bad oil pressure because is gauge read low. After hooking up a mechanical gauge, he came to fin his pressure was perfect. Take the readings from the stock gauge with a grain of salt.
It's unlikely that the engine would run without the chip being seated properly. I put #3 in my S4S last year and didn't notice much improvement other than the 3K stumble is all but gone, but upgrading from the stock S4S chip to #3 isn't much different anyway. I do notice that from a cold start in the morning at around 80F overnight temps, it ramps up to ~2500RPM for about two minutes before settling down to 1000RPM, probably due to the ECU trying to warm up the cat by reving it up and closing the EBPV during this period (I removed my EBPV last year), so this is probably normal. When the temps were lower over the winter, it would wait about half a minute before going through the cycle. Mine doesn't stumble though when it drops back down to 1000RPM though.
I'm seriously considering updgrading the chip again this year, either to the 330hp or the new 310hp chip...I should be able to feel that!
Bill
'95 S4S
I'm seriously considering updgrading the chip again this year, either to the 330hp or the new 310hp chip...I should be able to feel that!
Bill
'95 S4S
What you described sounds to me pretty much like the normal Esprit startup sequence.
Correct me if I'm wrong folks, but under some temp conditions the Esprit closes a valve and revs high to warm up the cats to be emissions compliant. Once it reaches a certain temp, it then drops to a normal idle...just like you said.
As for the oil pressure gauge, as long as it still is within acceptable limits, you should be fine.
The chip alone isn't going to turn your Esprit into a :vindieselvoiceon: 10 second car :vindieselvoiceoff: but it will make it quicker...kind of like you said. Other mods will also gradually improve things. If you want to see if your chip is working, run the car for about 30-50 miles to let the chip seat in. Then, drop the hammer...if your boost gauge hits 1 bar, your chip is functioning.
Mike
Correct me if I'm wrong folks, but under some temp conditions the Esprit closes a valve and revs high to warm up the cats to be emissions compliant. Once it reaches a certain temp, it then drops to a normal idle...just like you said.
As for the oil pressure gauge, as long as it still is within acceptable limits, you should be fine.
The chip alone isn't going to turn your Esprit into a :vindieselvoiceon: 10 second car :vindieselvoiceoff: but it will make it quicker...kind of like you said. Other mods will also gradually improve things. If you want to see if your chip is working, run the car for about 30-50 miles to let the chip seat in. Then, drop the hammer...if your boost gauge hits 1 bar, your chip is functioning.
Mike
Luke,
Your car seems to be behaving normally to me. If the engine starts up and goes straight to 2500 rpm then it does seem to be going through the fast warm up cycle for the emissions as suggested. I find that my car does this during hot weather even if it is the first time that the car has started during the day. The system is not that 'clever' that it realises this and the EBPV closes and throttle jack extends. It would be better if the system was linked in to the oil temperature as well because this would prevent it from happening. Anyway, your oil pressure will obviously be higher due to the increased revs on starting. Pressure will rise in line with engine revs and will only relieve itself if the pressure relief valve operates. Only pumps with variable swash plates to alter the stroke of the pumping action will allow constant pressure. Oil pumps invariably use an eccentric drive that reduces and expands the area that the oil is 'compartmented' in to achieve the pumping action.
I hope this helps to alleviate your fears as the fact that you have changed something on your car is naturally causing you to be a little cautious. For your information - if your car is an SE (or later model)then you can disengage the fast warm up cycle by depressing the throttle very rapidly. Again, I do this because I can not stand to hear my engine rev to those levels with cold oil.
Danny.
Danny.
Your car seems to be behaving normally to me. If the engine starts up and goes straight to 2500 rpm then it does seem to be going through the fast warm up cycle for the emissions as suggested. I find that my car does this during hot weather even if it is the first time that the car has started during the day. The system is not that 'clever' that it realises this and the EBPV closes and throttle jack extends. It would be better if the system was linked in to the oil temperature as well because this would prevent it from happening. Anyway, your oil pressure will obviously be higher due to the increased revs on starting. Pressure will rise in line with engine revs and will only relieve itself if the pressure relief valve operates. Only pumps with variable swash plates to alter the stroke of the pumping action will allow constant pressure. Oil pumps invariably use an eccentric drive that reduces and expands the area that the oil is 'compartmented' in to achieve the pumping action.
I hope this helps to alleviate your fears as the fact that you have changed something on your car is naturally causing you to be a little cautious. For your information - if your car is an SE (or later model)then you can disengage the fast warm up cycle by depressing the throttle very rapidly. Again, I do this because I can not stand to hear my engine rev to those levels with cold oil.
Danny.
Danny.
Thanks guys. Obviously since this is a brand new car (to me) and this is the first mod I've done I've been very cautious. I'll try the 'blip' trick next time to see if I can shut down the sequence. The only thing I wonder about now is why, after reseeding the chip yesterday, the car actually did STALL about a minute or two AFTER returning to 1000RPM following this warm up cycle....?
Also, oil pressure is never as high as it is during this cycle, even when punching it.
And one more thing.. I'm in Atlanta where its not cold. Not by a long shot. I'd say it's been ~80 degrees and very humid since I got the car.
I'll be happiest once I can get it in for an initial inspection at LoA.
Thanks again Fellas!
Luke.
Also, oil pressure is never as high as it is during this cycle, even when punching it.
And one more thing.. I'm in Atlanta where its not cold. Not by a long shot. I'd say it's been ~80 degrees and very humid since I got the car.
I'll be happiest once I can get it in for an initial inspection at LoA.
Thanks again Fellas!
Luke.
karmavore said:
Thanks guys...
Also, oil pressure is never as high as it is during this cycle, even when punching it...
Thanks again Fellas!
Luke.
Hi,
Oil pressures are always high during a warm-up. The reasons for this are that since the oil is cool, it is already compressed and cannot be compressed much further, consequently, it reads higher on the gauge. Once warmed, the oil will absorb some of the pressure produced by the pump by compressing resulting in lower readings.
Also, as the engine warms, it expands creating slightly more volume which lowers pressure a bit. Also, the oil filter is more restricted when filled with cool oil. Once the oil warms, it flows better through the filter lessening the filter's restrictive effect and again, lowering pressures.
Oil pressure is necessary to push the oil to the top of the engine (gravity return to the sump) and also to charge the internal oil galleries so that this pressure can float the Crankshaft, ConRods and Camshafts off their journals so they are running only atop a film of oil. Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
I think stalls can happen as the ECU relearns everything. Switch on your AC so that the ECU can learn it's idle with that running.
As for performance, stock, the car runs .85 bar with the possibility of overboost to 1 bar. When I got the car and did the overboost on 1 bar, I thought wow, I need it like that all the time. when I got the #3 chip in, I noticed a lot more hard hitting, tire ripping, boost down low as well as the increase to 1 bar of boost. Now I was happy. Running a bar all the time, like running constantly in overboost. Not sure I was happy about the remap of the instant boost but whatever. Then I hit overboost with chip #3 and got the 1.2 bar and thought, wow, I want THAT all the time. So now I have the 330HP chip which runs 1.2 bar all the time and I am very pleased. I didn't care for the instant hard hitting boost and prefer the smoothness of the stock/330HP chip. Definitely a worthwhile mod for the money. For under $500 you get a remap of the fuel and 5psi more of everyday boost.
So the reason you are not thinking the car is not as quick as you thought it should be is because you read into the hype a little too much. It happens. The reviews are written well and while you do feel a difference, it really is only a 2psi increase over stock, and if you hit overboost often in your car with the stock chip, the difference is not much at all. the benefit is 1 bar all the time with the abrupt low end hit.
Mods are a funny thing. Alone they make a difference but done as a package, they do more. Add and full exhaust and intake filter/ram air mod and the car will seem to wake up even more. Of course the turbo upgrade would be last but the addition of a freeflowing exhaust may benefit you greatly.
As for performance, stock, the car runs .85 bar with the possibility of overboost to 1 bar. When I got the car and did the overboost on 1 bar, I thought wow, I need it like that all the time. when I got the #3 chip in, I noticed a lot more hard hitting, tire ripping, boost down low as well as the increase to 1 bar of boost. Now I was happy. Running a bar all the time, like running constantly in overboost. Not sure I was happy about the remap of the instant boost but whatever. Then I hit overboost with chip #3 and got the 1.2 bar and thought, wow, I want THAT all the time. So now I have the 330HP chip which runs 1.2 bar all the time and I am very pleased. I didn't care for the instant hard hitting boost and prefer the smoothness of the stock/330HP chip. Definitely a worthwhile mod for the money. For under $500 you get a remap of the fuel and 5psi more of everyday boost.
So the reason you are not thinking the car is not as quick as you thought it should be is because you read into the hype a little too much. It happens. The reviews are written well and while you do feel a difference, it really is only a 2psi increase over stock, and if you hit overboost often in your car with the stock chip, the difference is not much at all. the benefit is 1 bar all the time with the abrupt low end hit.
Mods are a funny thing. Alone they make a difference but done as a package, they do more. Add and full exhaust and intake filter/ram air mod and the car will seem to wake up even more. Of course the turbo upgrade would be last but the addition of a freeflowing exhaust may benefit you greatly.
Thanks for all the advise, sincerely. Right now I'm running with no muffler, full cat, and, I believe, a K&N. (I just haven't had time to fiddle with her yet).
FYI.. I don't know how accurate the boost gauge is, but I'm certain I hit 1 bar before the chip. I will say this: when I floor it now I burry that needle instantly!
Can I "safely" run the 330 chip without upgrading the Charge cooler, injectors, etc...?
FYI.. I don't know how accurate the boost gauge is, but I'm certain I hit 1 bar before the chip. I will say this: when I floor it now I burry that needle instantly!
Can I "safely" run the 330 chip without upgrading the Charge cooler, injectors, etc...?
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