Discussion
Is there anything worse?
After a very god cycling/fitness year last year this year I find myself in not so quite good condition (no training for six months followed by two months in the USA...), finally dragging my fat arse into lycra I set about replicating my training regime from last year, 27miles ea.way to work.
Well, getting there was easy enough, slower than last year but a decent starting point but the way home...good god, nightmare.
After fuelling myself with lunchtime carbs, red bull in the afternoon and a strong bottle of energy drink I set off home, after 9 miles I found myself thinking of food, never a good sign, after 12 I stopped for a quick breather, after 15 my arms started going numb, after 20 I wanted to curl up in a little ball and go to sleep, thankfully my OH came to my rescue with cakes and a banana, this was enough to replenish the tank to get me home.
Although attempting this much so soon was a little silly I 'm still surprised the way it hit, especially as had 'fuelled' myself up beforehand, more base miles are required for sure.
After a very god cycling/fitness year last year this year I find myself in not so quite good condition (no training for six months followed by two months in the USA...), finally dragging my fat arse into lycra I set about replicating my training regime from last year, 27miles ea.way to work.
Well, getting there was easy enough, slower than last year but a decent starting point but the way home...good god, nightmare.
After fuelling myself with lunchtime carbs, red bull in the afternoon and a strong bottle of energy drink I set off home, after 9 miles I found myself thinking of food, never a good sign, after 12 I stopped for a quick breather, after 15 my arms started going numb, after 20 I wanted to curl up in a little ball and go to sleep, thankfully my OH came to my rescue with cakes and a banana, this was enough to replenish the tank to get me home.
Although attempting this much so soon was a little silly I 'm still surprised the way it hit, especially as had 'fuelled' myself up beforehand, more base miles are required for sure.
raf_gti said:
Is there anything worse?
After a very god cycling/fitness year last year this year I find myself in not so quite good condition (no training for six months followed by two months in the USA...), finally dragging my fat arse into lycra I set about replicating my training regime from last year, 27miles ea.way to work.
Well, getting there was easy enough, slower than last year but a decent starting point but the way home...good god, nightmare.
After fuelling myself with lunchtime carbs, red bull in the afternoon and a strong bottle of energy drink I set off home, after 9 miles I found myself thinking of food, never a good sign, after 12 I stopped for a quick breather, after 15 my arms started going numb, after 20 I wanted to curl up in a little ball and go to sleep, thankfully my OH came to my rescue with cakes and a banana, this was enough to replenish the tank to get me home.
Although attempting this much so soon was a little silly I 'm still surprised the way it hit, especially as had 'fuelled' myself up beforehand, more base miles are required for sure.
"after 20 I wanted to curl up in a little ball and go to sleep" After a very god cycling/fitness year last year this year I find myself in not so quite good condition (no training for six months followed by two months in the USA...), finally dragging my fat arse into lycra I set about replicating my training regime from last year, 27miles ea.way to work.
Well, getting there was easy enough, slower than last year but a decent starting point but the way home...good god, nightmare.
After fuelling myself with lunchtime carbs, red bull in the afternoon and a strong bottle of energy drink I set off home, after 9 miles I found myself thinking of food, never a good sign, after 12 I stopped for a quick breather, after 15 my arms started going numb, after 20 I wanted to curl up in a little ball and go to sleep, thankfully my OH came to my rescue with cakes and a banana, this was enough to replenish the tank to get me home.
Although attempting this much so soon was a little silly I 'm still surprised the way it hit, especially as had 'fuelled' myself up beforehand, more base miles are required for sure.
Not wanting to sound like a dick, but I think people go on about food/nutrition/fuelling far too much.
If you're eating a relatively normal diet, you've had a lunch of carbs, a can of Red Bull, another bottle of 'strong' energy drink and you're suffering after 9 miles, have to stop at 12, then stop and wait at 20 for someone to bring you bananas and cake to finish the final 7, the problem isn't that you've bonked or are underfuelled!
I don't know if it's marketing from the energy food people or beginners that are riding at a low level taking advice given from those at a much more advanced level, but it seems that everyone is nutrition crazy these days and can't get out of bed in the morning without a protien bar to recover.
I've just done a reasonably long 5 day charity ride with a bunch of beginner/non-cyclists and it's amazing the way everyone seems convinced that food can be used as a substitute for fitness. Giant meal of pasta/rice the night before, oats and energy bars before setting off, religious scoffing of gels and energy bars on the hour and 'as needed', bottles filled with carb/elecrolyte drinks, big carb heavy meal mid-ride, carb/protien/electrolyte recovery shakes immediately afterward followed by extra large ("we've earned this!") meal. Then repeat for the next day. This for people riding 80 miles at 14 mph on flat terrain.
Sorry...not really directed at you, just something that I've been noticing more and more of recently, highlighted last week by that charity ride.
If you're eating a relatively normal diet, you've had a lunch of carbs, a can of Red Bull, another bottle of 'strong' energy drink and you're suffering after 9 miles, have to stop at 12, then stop and wait at 20 for someone to bring you bananas and cake to finish the final 7, the problem isn't that you've bonked or are underfuelled!
I don't know if it's marketing from the energy food people or beginners that are riding at a low level taking advice given from those at a much more advanced level, but it seems that everyone is nutrition crazy these days and can't get out of bed in the morning without a protien bar to recover.
I've just done a reasonably long 5 day charity ride with a bunch of beginner/non-cyclists and it's amazing the way everyone seems convinced that food can be used as a substitute for fitness. Giant meal of pasta/rice the night before, oats and energy bars before setting off, religious scoffing of gels and energy bars on the hour and 'as needed', bottles filled with carb/elecrolyte drinks, big carb heavy meal mid-ride, carb/protien/electrolyte recovery shakes immediately afterward followed by extra large ("we've earned this!") meal. Then repeat for the next day. This for people riding 80 miles at 14 mph on flat terrain.
Sorry...not really directed at you, just something that I've been noticing more and more of recently, highlighted last week by that charity ride.
Uriel said:
Not wanting to sound like a dick, but I think people go on about food/nutrition/fuelling far too much.
If you're eating a relatively normal diet, you've had a lunch of carbs, a can of Red Bull, another bottle of 'strong' energy drink and you're suffering after 9 miles, have to stop at 12, then stop and wait at 20 for someone to bring you bananas and cake to finish the final 7, the problem isn't that you've bonked or are underfuelled!
I don't know if it's marketing from the energy food people or beginners that are riding at a low level taking advice given from those at a much more advanced level, but it seems that everyone is nutrition crazy these days and can't get out of bed in the morning without a protien bar to recover.
I've just done a reasonably long charity ride with a bunch of beginner/non-cyclists and it's amazing the way everyone seems convinced that food can be used as a substitute for fitness. Giant meal of pasta/rice the night before, oats and energy bars before setting off, religious scoffing of gels and energy bars on the hour and 'as needed', bottles filled with carb/elecrolyte drinks, big carb heavy meal mid-ride, carb/protien/electrolyte recovery shakes immediately afterward followed by extra large ("we've earned this!") meal. Then repeat for the next day. This for people riding 80 miles at 14 mph on flat terrain.
Sorry...not really directed at you, just something that I've been noticing more and more of recently, highlighted last week by that charity ride.
Agreed - on a recent ride out with some mates, I had drunk two litres of water and two litres of flat lemonade (mixed) through the day and eaten a muesli bar (this was an 80 mile ride) If you're eating a relatively normal diet, you've had a lunch of carbs, a can of Red Bull, another bottle of 'strong' energy drink and you're suffering after 9 miles, have to stop at 12, then stop and wait at 20 for someone to bring you bananas and cake to finish the final 7, the problem isn't that you've bonked or are underfuelled!
I don't know if it's marketing from the energy food people or beginners that are riding at a low level taking advice given from those at a much more advanced level, but it seems that everyone is nutrition crazy these days and can't get out of bed in the morning without a protien bar to recover.
I've just done a reasonably long charity ride with a bunch of beginner/non-cyclists and it's amazing the way everyone seems convinced that food can be used as a substitute for fitness. Giant meal of pasta/rice the night before, oats and energy bars before setting off, religious scoffing of gels and energy bars on the hour and 'as needed', bottles filled with carb/elecrolyte drinks, big carb heavy meal mid-ride, carb/protien/electrolyte recovery shakes immediately afterward followed by extra large ("we've earned this!") meal. Then repeat for the next day. This for people riding 80 miles at 14 mph on flat terrain.
Sorry...not really directed at you, just something that I've been noticing more and more of recently, highlighted last week by that charity ride.
Another in the group had eaten around five energy bars and done six gels. I think I worked out he had ingested around 3500 calories - plus he had done the pasta and porridge thing...
He looked quite shocked when we counted it all up.
Most of my rides, including my 40 miler at the weekend are done with a High5 zeroes tablet - no carbs at all.
It's all well filling your stomach with carbs but your body has to learn how to use them and get back in to the habit - it takes a few weeks to do that. If you took in enough carbs 3-4h before the ride then you were as ready as you'd need to be, adding high concentrate energy drinks will make things worse not better. Fuelling for training and racing is a science for this very fact - When they're not busy transfusing blood
, TdF riders have very carefully planned on-ride nutrition, to the g of carb/protein per hour.
The kind of ride you're doing - you should be 2-3 times a week one way for the first two weeks then build back up. Without doing so all you're doing is forcing the body to the point of muscle fibre damage and then in all likelihood not having enough time to recover - this takes days when pushing the body hard.
Alternative, if you must do both ways - make the ride itself a much lighter effort and take it easy for a bit - let the muscle memory remember what it needs to do for cycling and this'll get things back on track
Don't beat yourself up, appreciate you've lost more fitness than you thought then crack on at a more sensible regime until ready :-)
It's all well filling your stomach with carbs but your body has to learn how to use them and get back in to the habit - it takes a few weeks to do that. If you took in enough carbs 3-4h before the ride then you were as ready as you'd need to be, adding high concentrate energy drinks will make things worse not better. Fuelling for training and racing is a science for this very fact - When they're not busy transfusing blood
, TdF riders have very carefully planned on-ride nutrition, to the g of carb/protein per hour.The kind of ride you're doing - you should be 2-3 times a week one way for the first two weeks then build back up. Without doing so all you're doing is forcing the body to the point of muscle fibre damage and then in all likelihood not having enough time to recover - this takes days when pushing the body hard.
Alternative, if you must do both ways - make the ride itself a much lighter effort and take it easy for a bit - let the muscle memory remember what it needs to do for cycling and this'll get things back on track
Don't beat yourself up, appreciate you've lost more fitness than you thought then crack on at a more sensible regime until ready :-)
if you're climbing an alp maybe.Uriel said:
Not wanting to sound like a dick, but I think people go on about food/nutrition/fuelling far too much.
If you're eating a relatively normal diet, you've had a lunch of carbs, a can of Red Bull, another bottle of 'strong' energy drink and you're suffering after 9 miles, have to stop at 12, then stop and wait at 20 for someone to bring you bananas and cake to finish the final 7, the problem isn't that you've bonked or are underfuelled!
I don't know if it's marketing from the energy food people or beginners that are riding at a low level taking advice given from those at a much more advanced level, but it seems that everyone is nutrition crazy these days and can't get out of bed in the morning without a protien bar to recover.
I've just done a reasonably long 5 day charity ride with a bunch of beginner/non-cyclists and it's amazing the way everyone seems convinced that food can be used as a substitute for fitness. Giant meal of pasta/rice the night before, oats and energy bars before setting off, religious scoffing of gels and energy bars on the hour and 'as needed', bottles filled with carb/elecrolyte drinks, big carb heavy meal mid-ride, carb/protien/electrolyte recovery shakes immediately afterward followed by extra large ("we've earned this!") meal. Then repeat for the next day. This for people riding 80 miles at 14 mph on flat terrain.
Sorry...not really directed at you, just something that I've been noticing more and more of recently, highlighted last week by that charity ride.
I don't know if it's just coincidence, but this months Triathlete Europe had an article on exactly this.If you're eating a relatively normal diet, you've had a lunch of carbs, a can of Red Bull, another bottle of 'strong' energy drink and you're suffering after 9 miles, have to stop at 12, then stop and wait at 20 for someone to bring you bananas and cake to finish the final 7, the problem isn't that you've bonked or are underfuelled!
I don't know if it's marketing from the energy food people or beginners that are riding at a low level taking advice given from those at a much more advanced level, but it seems that everyone is nutrition crazy these days and can't get out of bed in the morning without a protien bar to recover.
I've just done a reasonably long 5 day charity ride with a bunch of beginner/non-cyclists and it's amazing the way everyone seems convinced that food can be used as a substitute for fitness. Giant meal of pasta/rice the night before, oats and energy bars before setting off, religious scoffing of gels and energy bars on the hour and 'as needed', bottles filled with carb/elecrolyte drinks, big carb heavy meal mid-ride, carb/protien/electrolyte recovery shakes immediately afterward followed by extra large ("we've earned this!") meal. Then repeat for the next day. This for people riding 80 miles at 14 mph on flat terrain.
Sorry...not really directed at you, just something that I've been noticing more and more of recently, highlighted last week by that charity ride.
I think people read advice that's based on what's currently in vogue for professional athletes in their chosen sport and - ably assisted by a lot of marketing spend - proceed to kick the arse out of it.
It's not hard: if you're working at a level that requires more energy than your body can metabolise from stored fat, then you will run out of steam if you don't refuel. If you don't have a lot of 'base' miles under your belt, then this point can arrive comparatively quickly.
You can be a pretty strong performer over a couple of hourse but still bonk quickly thereafter if you haven't got the fat-burning prep work in the bank.
It's not hard: if you're working at a level that requires more energy than your body can metabolise from stored fat, then you will run out of steam if you don't refuel. If you don't have a lot of 'base' miles under your belt, then this point can arrive comparatively quickly.
You can be a pretty strong performer over a couple of hourse but still bonk quickly thereafter if you haven't got the fat-burning prep work in the bank.
IroningMan said:
It's not hard: if you're working at a level that requires more energy than your body can metabolise from stored fat, then you will run out of steam if you don't refuel. If you don't have a lot of 'base' miles under your belt, then this point can arrive comparatively quickly.
Unfortunately as I have found out I don't have enough base miles in the bank 
As much as I want to break my personal best everyday I'm resigned to the fact that my prep has been crap, hence June being a solid building block for the rest of the year.
Without wishing to ruin the OP's thread - this is an area starting to interest me. I plan on doing La Ronde Picardie sportive in france in september and want to make a huge improvement on my time last year. I've been training fairly hard and it's going OK so far - speeds are noticeably improved on this time last year.
So aside from just doing the miles to get my body used to the distance, what else is there I can do nutrition wise to improve my endurance - and obviously speed. Or are we just saying cut the krispy kremes out, but other than that eat fairly normally. I find it's easy to believe a lot of the hype about protein & carb shakes and other things - but is it just that - hype?
Also - what about hydration. I reckon I need about a litre an hour if I'm going fairly hard, but in a 4 hour race, I don't want to be stopping to refill! Is it again just a case of rule 5 (HTFU)?
So aside from just doing the miles to get my body used to the distance, what else is there I can do nutrition wise to improve my endurance - and obviously speed. Or are we just saying cut the krispy kremes out, but other than that eat fairly normally. I find it's easy to believe a lot of the hype about protein & carb shakes and other things - but is it just that - hype?
Also - what about hydration. I reckon I need about a litre an hour if I'm going fairly hard, but in a 4 hour race, I don't want to be stopping to refill! Is it again just a case of rule 5 (HTFU)?
Something that was taught to me by an experienced Ironman triathlete was that when you bonk, push bigger gears. By all accounts you'll just go slower and slower when you change down to an easier gear. Eventually, as you fuel up and you finally start to come alive (bonking only sticks around for a while until the body figures it all out) you'll reap the benefits quicker.
Mind you. Easier said that done when all you want to do is curl up and go to sleep in a bus shelter
Mind you. Easier said that done when all you want to do is curl up and go to sleep in a bus shelter
jayfish said:
I'm about to move away from the town I work in a feel I'll hit exactly the same issues if I start to commute full distance without ramp up, the current plan is to drive halfway then cycle in until I'm fitter, or would an every other day full ride be better conditioning wise?
I ride the same 27 miles each way as the OP. I started off riding in one day, then using a pool car, riding home the next day. Couple of weeks of that then went to one day a week for a couple of weeks the a few months doing tuesdays and thursdays in and out so having a good recovery time. Now ride 2 or 3 times a week - only very occasionally doing two days on the trot. Partly for my legs to recover and partly to take lunch and clean clothes into work.
You get used to it pretty quickly. No bonk yet! (touching wood)
Pretty normal food during the day too. I occasionally have an energy gel on the way home and use some sort of tablet or elecrolyte in water. Otherwise a slice of malt loaf sometimes.
As I am trying to lose weight I don't want to be taking on thousands of extra calories.
I did get a packet of Sport Jelly beans which were ok munching occasionally along the way, but when I read the packet you are supposed to have a whole packet before exercise. Some as you go along (as required) and a packet afterwards to aid recovery! Bonkers. At £1.50 a pack that would cost getting on for a tenner a day which is more than I save on diesel!
Tips for doing the distance include not trying to break you pb every ride and minimising what you carry.
neilski said:
You rowed to work? How cool is that!
Smart arse. 
The tip about pushing bigger gears when you hit the wall is interesting. I'll try and remember that. I also agree about what has been said about trying to use fuel as a substitute for fitness.
As always, it's about finding the balance for yourself, but you have to do the miles.
contango said:
I wouldn't analyse or obsess about the food side of things quite so much. It is important, but as you build up fitness it may well be less so.
Some of it is psychological, if you out on a long ride and have oat bars in your jersey pocket, you may ride easier,just knowing they are there.
A few months ago....I went out pre breakfast, for a hard ride, intending to hit the wall...to see how I would cope and what my body would do.....I came home 60 miles later,,,,no wall hit, absolutely fine, thinking that will do.
I do take something with me on a ride, but rarely need to eat anything.
I am not trying to post this as a hero, as many cycling friends are at the same level.
We are all different, metabolic rates, stamina and fitness levels, but I find some people can be more concerned about feeding their face on a ride than actual progress!
I know that for me personally, and this is based on over 10+ years of 'quick' riding that I'm fine up to a certain point then after that I need more than just a bottle of water.Some of it is psychological, if you out on a long ride and have oat bars in your jersey pocket, you may ride easier,just knowing they are there.
A few months ago....I went out pre breakfast, for a hard ride, intending to hit the wall...to see how I would cope and what my body would do.....I came home 60 miles later,,,,no wall hit, absolutely fine, thinking that will do.
I do take something with me on a ride, but rarely need to eat anything.
I am not trying to post this as a hero, as many cycling friends are at the same level.
We are all different, metabolic rates, stamina and fitness levels, but I find some people can be more concerned about feeding their face on a ride than actual progress!
Although I've certainly never been one to carb load, sip an energy drink before a ride or whatever else is the 'feature of the month' in CyclingPlusMonthly.
<puts Lycra on for another boring steady ride>
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