TdF - the toughest challenge in cycling?
Discussion
I love following the TdF each year. But what irks me (as a keen albeit injured cyclist) is the mainstream media's insistence of referring to it as the 'ultimate challenge in Cycling' etc.
Don't get me wrong, Ive utmost respect for the guys that do it. But the 'ultimate cycling challenge'? Nah.
Ultimate three weekish stage race (with rest days and team support) maybe.
But in light of events like Ride Across America, iditabike and Great Divide Race I don't see TdF anywhere near the 'ultimate challenge in cycling'.
Anyone wanna argue?
Don't get me wrong, Ive utmost respect for the guys that do it. But the 'ultimate cycling challenge'? Nah.
Ultimate three weekish stage race (with rest days and team support) maybe.
But in light of events like Ride Across America, iditabike and Great Divide Race I don't see TdF anywhere near the 'ultimate challenge in cycling'.
Anyone wanna argue?
I think you're trying to compare the 100m at the Olympics, with at the London Marathon, and those stupid Ultrathalons that people do. They're all running, but the winner of each is at the top of their game.
For the type of race that it is, the TdF is probably the top level and most prestigious. The guys from the race across America wouldn't see which way a TdF rider went on the TdF. Likewise a TdF rider would really struggle on the race across America.
I wouldn't give Usain Bolt any less respect than he is due for his 100m and 200m ability, just because he'd be s
te at a marathon...
(All in my opinion of course.)
For the type of race that it is, the TdF is probably the top level and most prestigious. The guys from the race across America wouldn't see which way a TdF rider went on the TdF. Likewise a TdF rider would really struggle on the race across America.
I wouldn't give Usain Bolt any less respect than he is due for his 100m and 200m ability, just because he'd be s
te at a marathon...(All in my opinion of course.)
the thing about iditabike is that although its extremely tough, its more of a personal achievement to complete it, same as raam. i appreciate the cumulative mileage on raam is far higher but the time stages arent actually that long so if you want to, you stop a checkpoint early one day.
because the tdf is against other people at the top of their game you cant have an off day, you have to be on it every day. if you have a crap day on raam, slow the pace down.... on the tdf you just cant do that or its all over. the tdf riders make it look possible becuase they train seriously hard for it.
because the tdf is against other people at the top of their game you cant have an off day, you have to be on it every day. if you have a crap day on raam, slow the pace down.... on the tdf you just cant do that or its all over. the tdf riders make it look possible becuase they train seriously hard for it.
pablo said:
the thing about iditabike is that although its extremely tough, its more of a personal achievement to complete it, same as raam. i appreciate the cumulative mileage on raam is far higher but the time stages arent actually that long so if you want to, you stop a checkpoint early one day.
because the tdf is against other people at the top of their game you cant have an off day, you have to be on it every day. if you have a crap day on raam, slow the pace down.... on the tdf you just cant do that or its all over. the tdf riders make it look possible becuase they train seriously hard for it.
Yep. Tdf (and any other stage or one day race)is tougher than something like ride across america because of the pace you have to keep up over the distance. The same goes for any other pro bike race. You basically have to be MENTAL fit.because the tdf is against other people at the top of their game you cant have an off day, you have to be on it every day. if you have a crap day on raam, slow the pace down.... on the tdf you just cant do that or its all over. the tdf riders make it look possible becuase they train seriously hard for it.
louiebaby said:
The guys from the race across America wouldn't see which way a TdF rider went on the TdF. Likewise a TdF rider would really struggle on the race across America.
(All in my opinion of course.)
Beg to differ! I think a Tdf rider would find it alot easier to do the ride across america than the other way round.(All in my opinion of course.)
I can't see that a tour rider would find RAAM easier than the other way around.
From http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/sports/playmagaz...
The craziness is methodical, however, and Robic and his crew know its pattern by heart. Around Day 2 of a typical weeklong race, his speech goes staccato. By Day 3, he is belligerent and sometimes paranoid. His short-term memory vanishes, and he weeps uncontrollably. The last days are marked by hallucinations: bears, wolves and aliens prowl the roadside; asphalt cracks rearrange themselves into coded messages. Occasionally, Robic leaps from his bike to square off with shadowy figures that turn out to be mailboxes. In a 2004 race, he turned to see himself pursued by a howling band of black-bearded men on horseback.
‘‘Mujahedeen, shooting at me,’’ he explains. ‘‘So I ride faster.’’
I'd like to see some tour riders try a 24hr tt even. Andy Wilkinson beat the UK record last weekend, doing over 541mls. Look at the state of him at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tix9iF3reSE
Skip to 4m20s.
Not saying tour riders couldn't, just that (fast) endurance riders have a set of skills that would transfer more easily.
From http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/sports/playmagaz...
The craziness is methodical, however, and Robic and his crew know its pattern by heart. Around Day 2 of a typical weeklong race, his speech goes staccato. By Day 3, he is belligerent and sometimes paranoid. His short-term memory vanishes, and he weeps uncontrollably. The last days are marked by hallucinations: bears, wolves and aliens prowl the roadside; asphalt cracks rearrange themselves into coded messages. Occasionally, Robic leaps from his bike to square off with shadowy figures that turn out to be mailboxes. In a 2004 race, he turned to see himself pursued by a howling band of black-bearded men on horseback.
‘‘Mujahedeen, shooting at me,’’ he explains. ‘‘So I ride faster.’’
I'd like to see some tour riders try a 24hr tt even. Andy Wilkinson beat the UK record last weekend, doing over 541mls. Look at the state of him at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tix9iF3reSE
Skip to 4m20s.
Not saying tour riders couldn't, just that (fast) endurance riders have a set of skills that would transfer more easily.
Different disciplines - the only common factor is same mode of transport.
Wilko on the 24h thing is an amazing achievement of mental and physical conditioning but it can't in any way be compared to being in a ProTour event - the dynamics, mix of riding, everything is so completely and utterly different.
For my money, and looking at aspects of terrain, different types of riding, mental stamina, external pressures, etc., the Protour events and especially TdF tick the "ultimate" boxes for me in terms of all out RACING. Yes there are more endurance related events but they're not the same. TdF is an endurance event, an all out sprint, a climb to test the legs of the fittest, a team war of complex strategies, a test of nerves on technical descents at over 50mph, and all of this across many stages and many many days. to top it all it is ALL under race conditions - you're not trying to see if you can slip another lap in or shave a second off - you're there battling the guy next to you most of the time.
Even rest days are used for additional training - they don't sit back and actually relax - relaxation time is often spent doing PR events so it's a relentless circus for that period.
A good ProTour rider could easily condition themselves within a reasonably small period of time to take on 24h TT or RAAM if they so chose. The other guys would very unlikely even get a chance to keep up at a good enough pace to be a soigneur for a whole tour without huge amounts of training and maybe over years.
All imho of course
Wilko on the 24h thing is an amazing achievement of mental and physical conditioning but it can't in any way be compared to being in a ProTour event - the dynamics, mix of riding, everything is so completely and utterly different.
For my money, and looking at aspects of terrain, different types of riding, mental stamina, external pressures, etc., the Protour events and especially TdF tick the "ultimate" boxes for me in terms of all out RACING. Yes there are more endurance related events but they're not the same. TdF is an endurance event, an all out sprint, a climb to test the legs of the fittest, a team war of complex strategies, a test of nerves on technical descents at over 50mph, and all of this across many stages and many many days. to top it all it is ALL under race conditions - you're not trying to see if you can slip another lap in or shave a second off - you're there battling the guy next to you most of the time.
Even rest days are used for additional training - they don't sit back and actually relax - relaxation time is often spent doing PR events so it's a relentless circus for that period.
A good ProTour rider could easily condition themselves within a reasonably small period of time to take on 24h TT or RAAM if they so chose. The other guys would very unlikely even get a chance to keep up at a good enough pace to be a soigneur for a whole tour without huge amounts of training and maybe over years.
All imho of course
The above post says it all. The pinnacle of cycling for me is road racing for the reasons stated above. The pinnacle of road racing is the TdF. Makes me laugh all those arm chair pundits who have said on this forum - it's easy they sit in the bunch ride along at 30mph etc etc.
How many of you have road raced let alone ridden a stage race?
I have ridden just three short stages races and after each one I was wrecked - it's the combination of racing day after day after day that does it.
How many of you have road raced let alone ridden a stage race?
I have ridden just three short stages races and after each one I was wrecked - it's the combination of racing day after day after day that does it.
dubbs said:
Different disciplines - the only common factor is same mode of transport.
Wilko on the 24h thing is an amazing achievement of mental and physical conditioning but it can't in any way be compared to being in a ProTour event - the dynamics, mix of riding, everything is so completely and utterly different.
For my money, and looking at aspects of terrain, different types of riding, mental stamina, external pressures, etc., the Protour events and especially TdF tick the "ultimate" boxes for me in terms of all out RACING. Yes there are more endurance related events but they're not the same. TdF is an endurance event, an all out sprint, a climb to test the legs of the fittest, a team war of complex strategies, a test of nerves on technical descents at over 50mph, and all of this across many stages and many many days. to top it all it is ALL under race conditions - you're not trying to see if you can slip another lap in or shave a second off - you're there battling the guy next to you most of the time.
Even rest days are used for additional training - they don't sit back and actually relax - relaxation time is often spent doing PR events so it's a relentless circus for that period.
A good ProTour rider could easily condition themselves within a reasonably small period of time to take on 24h TT or RAAM if they so chose. The other guys would very unlikely even get a chance to keep up at a good enough pace to be a soigneur for a whole tour without huge amounts of training and maybe over years.
All imho of course
+1Wilko on the 24h thing is an amazing achievement of mental and physical conditioning but it can't in any way be compared to being in a ProTour event - the dynamics, mix of riding, everything is so completely and utterly different.
For my money, and looking at aspects of terrain, different types of riding, mental stamina, external pressures, etc., the Protour events and especially TdF tick the "ultimate" boxes for me in terms of all out RACING. Yes there are more endurance related events but they're not the same. TdF is an endurance event, an all out sprint, a climb to test the legs of the fittest, a team war of complex strategies, a test of nerves on technical descents at over 50mph, and all of this across many stages and many many days. to top it all it is ALL under race conditions - you're not trying to see if you can slip another lap in or shave a second off - you're there battling the guy next to you most of the time.
Even rest days are used for additional training - they don't sit back and actually relax - relaxation time is often spent doing PR events so it's a relentless circus for that period.
A good ProTour rider could easily condition themselves within a reasonably small period of time to take on 24h TT or RAAM if they so chose. The other guys would very unlikely even get a chance to keep up at a good enough pace to be a soigneur for a whole tour without huge amounts of training and maybe over years.
All imho of course
Great athletes but there's no chance a RAAM rider would have the speed to maintain 35mph or the ability to react to the attacks of a TdF peloton with a background of non stop 15-20mph solo riding
DrMekon said:
...
I'd like to see some tour riders try a 24hr tt even. Andy Wilkinson beat the UK record last weekend, doing over 541mls. Look at the state of him at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tix9iF3reSE
Skip to 4m20s.
Not saying tour riders couldn't, just that (fast) endurance riders have a set of skills that would transfer more easily.
Wow I'd like to see some tour riders try a 24hr tt even. Andy Wilkinson beat the UK record last weekend, doing over 541mls. Look at the state of him at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tix9iF3reSE
Skip to 4m20s.
Not saying tour riders couldn't, just that (fast) endurance riders have a set of skills that would transfer more easily.
That video had me welling up at the end!Agree with the majority I think.
It still is hard to comprehend the speed, to think that the fastest cyclist in our 400 strong club (not sure who that would be, but Cat 1 and fecking quick) would struggle to roll along with them, let alone climb and do it for three weeks says it all.
Not many sports compare in terms of the vast gap between semi pro and grand tour pro's, David Millars utterly ubsurd lap of Richmond park is evidence of that!
It still is hard to comprehend the speed, to think that the fastest cyclist in our 400 strong club (not sure who that would be, but Cat 1 and fecking quick) would struggle to roll along with them, let alone climb and do it for three weeks says it all.
Not many sports compare in terms of the vast gap between semi pro and grand tour pro's, David Millars utterly ubsurd lap of Richmond park is evidence of that!
What the RAAM solo riders manage to do is incredible, but it is as much a mental challenge as a cycling one. They are very good cyclists but, as others have suggested, would be left for dead in something like the TdF. A proper pro cyclist who had the mental drive to attempt RAAM would do very well.
I've just finished team RAAM (was supposed to be a two-person team, but didn't quite go according to plan — this video explains it a little http://youtu.be/6uLmp9wY1Xc ) and the solo guys we were catching up with towards the end were just riding zombies. Even if I could get myself fit enough to do it solo (I ended up riding about 40% of the race this year), I don't think I could bring myself to get on a bike knowing that, for nearly 2 weeks, I'd be spending 17 hours+ on it every day (and that's just the ones managing to finish, not the ones who win!).
Whatever you think, you have to have some respect for guys who, for the first 1,000 miles of the race, were averaging around 18.5mph (bearing in mind that is going through the Rockies and includes all rest time).
I've just finished team RAAM (was supposed to be a two-person team, but didn't quite go according to plan — this video explains it a little http://youtu.be/6uLmp9wY1Xc ) and the solo guys we were catching up with towards the end were just riding zombies. Even if I could get myself fit enough to do it solo (I ended up riding about 40% of the race this year), I don't think I could bring myself to get on a bike knowing that, for nearly 2 weeks, I'd be spending 17 hours+ on it every day (and that's just the ones managing to finish, not the ones who win!).
Whatever you think, you have to have some respect for guys who, for the first 1,000 miles of the race, were averaging around 18.5mph (bearing in mind that is going through the Rockies and includes all rest time).
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