What would you have done here...?
Discussion
Couple of YouTube vid here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByO4gamDKU&lis...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQPc6s7yIHA&lis...
The first one I reckon he should have backed off, let the van do what he was doing and the just carried on as normal. In his reply to me he says he was actually going to overtake the van!
The second one to me looks like he wasn't paying attention - but its hard to say given the speed he was travelling at.
I'm not a cyclist at all but I'm interested in other views as to what you would have done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByO4gamDKU&lis...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQPc6s7yIHA&lis...
The first one I reckon he should have backed off, let the van do what he was doing and the just carried on as normal. In his reply to me he says he was actually going to overtake the van!
The second one to me looks like he wasn't paying attention - but its hard to say given the speed he was travelling at.
I'm not a cyclist at all but I'm interested in other views as to what you would have done.
Guy needs to buy himself a horn for his bike (or ride with a flashin front like durin the day) if he is going to keep finding himself in these situations. Also I may be jumping to conculsions but I suspect he is also one of these guys who will only wear black bike gear and then wonders why nobody see's him.
ETA, seems he deletes comments from people who dont back him up.......very sad little man on a power trip. If this is you op, I am sorry if I come across a bit harsh but I still stand by what I said.
ETA, seems he deletes comments from people who dont back him up.......very sad little man on a power trip. If this is you op, I am sorry if I come across a bit harsh but I still stand by what I said.
the correct answer is to bunny hop the hazard, in both situations 
(I may be campaigning for 'bunny hop' to become the cycling equivalent of Troy Queef's 'dab of oppo')
Personally I wouldn't bother uploading the footage - to what point? Some people made a mistake. It has always happened, and always will as long as human beings are behind the wheel. Reporting truly terrible driving to the BiB and learning to better anticipate mere mistakes are all you can and all you should usefully do, and in the first situation at least I'd probably be happy with how I'd acquainted myself tbh. Whether he could have anticipated the second better is difficult to say, he might've had a better view IRL. He does seem capable of tooling along at a decent speed though, which is always going to make SMIDSY's more likely than in a car at the same speed - smaller so more difficult to see, two small contact patches, rim brakes and a high centre of gravity do not a lack of incidents make.
(I may be campaigning for 'bunny hop' to become the cycling equivalent of Troy Queef's 'dab of oppo')
Personally I wouldn't bother uploading the footage - to what point? Some people made a mistake. It has always happened, and always will as long as human beings are behind the wheel. Reporting truly terrible driving to the BiB and learning to better anticipate mere mistakes are all you can and all you should usefully do, and in the first situation at least I'd probably be happy with how I'd acquainted myself tbh. Whether he could have anticipated the second better is difficult to say, he might've had a better view IRL. He does seem capable of tooling along at a decent speed though, which is always going to make SMIDSY's more likely than in a car at the same speed - smaller so more difficult to see, two small contact patches, rim brakes and a high centre of gravity do not a lack of incidents make.
Vid 1. Van isn't looking in rear mirror, then sees cyclist, pulls out but misjudged speed of cyclist. Cyclist being flesh and bone should yield but has every right to angry.
Vid 2. Bmx rider can see the road is clear of cars when car passes him so pulls out, rider again has every right to be angry but assume kid on bmx has probably looked right, left, right.....but not left again... Ho hum, no dramas. Hope he stopped to check the kid was ok....
Vid 2. Bmx rider can see the road is clear of cars when car passes him so pulls out, rider again has every right to be angry but assume kid on bmx has probably looked right, left, right.....but not left again... Ho hum, no dramas. Hope he stopped to check the kid was ok....
Vid 1:
When I learnt to drive I was always taught that you didn't overtake a vehicle that was indicating right.
If you look, van driver starts to indicate around 1 second into the clip, starts to pull out around 3 seconds into the clip and up until 5 seconds into the clip the cyclist still intends to overtake him.
I'd have backed off when the van indicated at 1 second into the clip and passed on the left when he pulled out, bearing in mind cars turning right from the junction on the left.
Vid 2:
Kids are partially obscured by the oncoming Megane but are visible and in the process of crossing at 6 seconds in. At 8 seconds he colides with the front kid.
Personally I'd have made the choice at 6 seconds if I was going in front or behind them. If I wanted to go infront I'd have shouted a loud "Oi!" at that stage. However, leaving a couple of kids in the middle of the road is a bit unpredictable (another car makes them run etc), so I'd have probably slowed down and gone behind them. Added to this the potential for a car to exit the junction on the left and backing off a fraction to let the situation become a bit more predictable really is the sensible choice.
On another note, it's interesting to see that he tries to go around the front of the kid. In my experience, when people are confronted like this, they don't know whether to run or stop and it's at best 50:50. If you aim for where people are walking from, ie, where they were half a second ago, when they notice you, they're in no doubt that they should run!
Overall the cyclist seems a bit fixated on making progress and being "in the right" at the expense of his own personal safety.
When I learnt to drive I was always taught that you didn't overtake a vehicle that was indicating right.
If you look, van driver starts to indicate around 1 second into the clip, starts to pull out around 3 seconds into the clip and up until 5 seconds into the clip the cyclist still intends to overtake him.
I'd have backed off when the van indicated at 1 second into the clip and passed on the left when he pulled out, bearing in mind cars turning right from the junction on the left.
Vid 2:
Kids are partially obscured by the oncoming Megane but are visible and in the process of crossing at 6 seconds in. At 8 seconds he colides with the front kid.
Personally I'd have made the choice at 6 seconds if I was going in front or behind them. If I wanted to go infront I'd have shouted a loud "Oi!" at that stage. However, leaving a couple of kids in the middle of the road is a bit unpredictable (another car makes them run etc), so I'd have probably slowed down and gone behind them. Added to this the potential for a car to exit the junction on the left and backing off a fraction to let the situation become a bit more predictable really is the sensible choice.
On another note, it's interesting to see that he tries to go around the front of the kid. In my experience, when people are confronted like this, they don't know whether to run or stop and it's at best 50:50. If you aim for where people are walking from, ie, where they were half a second ago, when they notice you, they're in no doubt that they should run!
Overall the cyclist seems a bit fixated on making progress and being "in the right" at the expense of his own personal safety.
Furberger said:
Overall the cyclist seems a bit fixated on making progress and being "in the right" at the expense of his own personal safety.
Have to agree. In both clips the rider was "in the right" but in both clips also fails to anticipate the road ahead and use those two levers on the handlebars.Some Gump said:
I still maintain that "helmet cam men" start recording to prove just how much of a w
ker everyone else is, whilst forgetting to anticipate / compensate for others. Personally, i'd rather brake and avoid the yelling, than be right but flat.
That's pretty much my way of thinking too.ker everyone else is, whilst forgetting to anticipate / compensate for others. Personally, i'd rather brake and avoid the yelling, than be right but flat.Yeah people are idiots and do wrong things but being on a bike you've surely got to be one step ahead of the game and take action accordingly.
As mentioned already, being right is one thing but it doesn't make for easy reading on your headstone.
I agree with SG above. The cyclist is a knob who's riding around putting himself in positions of danger just to capture the inevitable outcome on video. I suspect his final video will see him and his camera disappear under the wheels of a lorry! He needs to slow down a bit, (30mph on a bike in a built-up area is madness), and learn some defensive riding skills.
Looking at his other (147!!!) videos, they're mostly about how poor other road users are. Strikes me as an argument looking for an excuse to happen. I don't get the attitude at all. When I drive, I try to give cyclists as much space as I can & when I ride, if I can't keep away from roads, then I always start from the viewpoint that being in the right is no substitute for being in one piece.
Fastra said:
Couple of YouTube vid here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByO4gamDKU&lis...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQPc6s7yIHA&lis...
The first one I reckon he should have backed off, let the van do what he was doing and the just carried on as normal. In his reply to me he says he was actually going to overtake the van!
1. Technically there can be no question it's the van driver in the wrong. But in the real world, if you see a vehicle with its wheels steered out towards the road and its indicators going you should know there's a strong chance they're about to drive off, so it's partly a lack of defensive riding.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByO4gamDKU&lis...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQPc6s7yIHA&lis...
The first one I reckon he should have backed off, let the van do what he was doing and the just carried on as normal. In his reply to me he says he was actually going to overtake the van!
2. It was a stupid thing for the kids to do. If the guy on the bike had been a truck the kids could now be dead and it would only be their own fault. That said, again, the more you look out for idiots (or kids, loose dogs etc.) the less likely you are to hit one when they do something unpredictable.
I would say the potential accident in the first video was a lot easier to avoid. The cyclist wasn't to blame for either, but there was more he could have done to anticipate the van than the kids I reckon.
ETA
Justin Cyder said:
I always start from the viewpoint that being in the right is no substitute for being in one piece.
Never a truer word spoken... I can see how it's difficult to bear that in mind on a one-off occasion when your addrenaline is going because - having already got your blood pumping with the workout - some nutter tries to attack you with a van. I'm guilty of that myself on occasions. But 147+ times and with a camera to record each one? Edited by Chris71 on Monday 26th March 11:29
My reading of it is the cyclist is making drama out of total non-incidents. Yes he's technically right but he's also technically a prat. Needs to chill out a bit and not be on such a mission to make progress.
Some Gump said:
I still maintain that "helmet cam men" start recording to prove just how much of a wker everyone else is, whilst forgetting to anticipate / compensate for others. Personally, i'd rather brake and avoid the yelling, than be right but flat.
Agree, sums up the majority of helmet-cam wearers based on clips I've seen online. I do wear a camera myself but don't see what's gained by posting online: its not as if its going to change the attitudes of other road users. I've only once posted a video online, purely in order to share it when looking for legal advice (video since removed after driver was charged). During it's live time it attracted comments from several helmet-cam-wearing nutters who seemed to see me as one of their own ker everyone else is, whilst forgetting to anticipate / compensate for others. Personally, i'd rather brake and avoid the yelling, than be right but flat.On my daily commute, there are marker posts for the cycle lane. They're actually a pain, since they create a pinch point & inevitably, cyclists meet in opposite directions at the iron marker posts, meaning one has to wait, slow or swerve out.
In my experience, 99% of riders react respectfully to one another, slowing to avoid meeting at the posts, but there is always that on a mission rider who isn't stopping for anyone & he's usually a MAMIL on a decent frame. I guess my point is riders are a microcosm of society and as with any thing else, you get good ones, average ones & the occassional idiot. The guy in these videos is the occassional idiot - to my eyes at least.
In my experience, 99% of riders react respectfully to one another, slowing to avoid meeting at the posts, but there is always that on a mission rider who isn't stopping for anyone & he's usually a MAMIL on a decent frame. I guess my point is riders are a microcosm of society and as with any thing else, you get good ones, average ones & the occassional idiot. The guy in these videos is the occassional idiot - to my eyes at least.
Chris71 said:
Technically there can be no question it's the van driver in the wrong.
The cyclist wasn't to blame for either
Incorrect:The cyclist wasn't to blame for either
Highwaycode said:
167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled
Actually I'll edit that to add that as just because the cyclist was in the wrong, doesn't mean the van was in the right. They were both in the wrong.DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled
Edited by Furberger on Monday 26th March 13:05
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