New Wheelset, Carbon Aero style or bogo Alu?

[stongle]

New Wheelset????

I'm currently in the market for a new Road wheelset. Budget is max "a bag of sand" (grand / £1000), to include skewers, tyres etc.

My riding is a mix of commuting into London (14-15miles each way x 3 times a week) and weekend rides in the 30-50m range (although building up to 100km for the Haywards Heath Howler).

I'm NOT a spectacular climber, but tend to find riding at 20mph+ fairly easy when not on a climb.

I'm Riding a 2011 BMC ProMachine (Ultegra SL), and the wheelset it come with (Mavic Aksium) is perhaps a little too heavy (in the rolling weight dept), and there to get it out of the shop (the assumption being the wheels will be updated and the Aksiums used for training). Whilst these not holding me back per-se, I think I could do with a new set; certainly for weekend rides.

Actually in reality, they're just not bling enough and the guy at the bike shop said aero wheels might be a good upgrade (he could smell my desperation for some new shiny stuff); plus my cycling buddy just got a set from Planet X and we have a sort of cycling arms race going on…

Anyway, my problem (as such) is; do I go for a Aero set or just stick with a more traditional wheel. I also dislike tyre changes intensely, so tubular seems to be the way to go… I'm narrowed down to 2 in particular:

Cosmic Carbones SL: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...

Or

Fulcrum Racing Zero: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...

Now the Cosmics, appear to weigh in the same as my Aksiums and whilst I get that they have aerodynamic properties for riding in excess of 20mph; not entirely sure this helps me up hills. The Fulcrums are substantially lighter (and perhaps more bling, so much so I might need a new bike carrier with Kahn on it); but would the potential aero benefits of the Cosmics negate the weight savings of the Fulcrums.

The inner child also says that the Cosmics will make a nicer whooshing sound when I get to pass the odd cyclist, but the Fulcrums really are quite natty.

So, in all seriouness does anyone have any experience (not so much on these wheels); but Aero wheels Vs standard ones at this price bracket? What should I be looking for, and is there a substantial pro / con to each type (I suspect I will get a less biased view in here).

Also, is there a substantial risk that the Carbon wheelset will disintigrate "if" I were to ride it in London (on the odd occasion I can't be bothered to change back to training wheels).

Oh, and dare I say it; anything else to consider (NOT second hand or e-bay specials)???

Thanks-muchly.

[rhinochopig]

I suspect these will be rejected out of hand because they're not from one of the big names, but these: http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cP...

Weigh in at 1350g and cost £251.99, which is nearly 100g lighter than those fulcrums. Spokes and rims are all big name brands but they use SC's own hubs.

I have a two sets of their wheels - their race day MTB rims and a set of heavier duty stuff on my full sus bike. I have to say the quality is very very good. Perfectly true, bob on with the weights claimed, and so far have worked perfectly. The only issue I had was their reluctance to answer the phone to field queries, but they do answer their e-mails promptly.

Whilst I understand the appeal of more famous wheelsets, especially as carbon rims look great on a road bike, you did mention wanting to improve climbing performance and minimising wheel mass - especially rotational mass - is key here.

ETA These are handbuilts.

Edited by rhinochopig on Tuesday 3rd July 10:55

[NitroNick]

I've been using Cosmics for the past 5 years as training wheels. They require no maintenance and are rock solid. I can't stress how strong these are, I literally have had zero maintenance on them over 5 years of heavy riding.
They are slightly on the heavy side but they are worth it for the sound alone.
That said, there are some good deals out there on carbon deep section wheels, you might get something a bit more special on sale somewhere. e.g. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fast-forward-f6r-carbon-tu...


Alternatively you could get some handbuilt wheels. http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/road-wheels-prices

[stongle]

Rhinochopig - thanks for the advice. These seem, impressively cheap for the weight... I don't mind a bit of experimenting; but a bit concerned that they are perhaps a MTB biased firm?

NitroNick, you use the Carbones as a Training wheel? Interesting... Is it because thay ride substantially different when getting on the power and moving the bike side to side (I assume the rigidity and depth of the rim makes for a different feel?); thus it makes sense to ride on a deep dish all the time? The F6Rs are nice, but out of stock for Shimano and I'd still be looking at £100 on tyres on top.....

Given the recent windy conditions, I'm a bit concerned that too deep a dish makes the bike more prone to cross winds.

[okgo]

Are the carbones not Kysriums with a body kit? Which would explain the stiff/zero maintenance as mavic tend to be reliable (till you bust a spoke and find few shops stock them at least)

[Roman]

Expensive, light carbon aero wheels with light fragile tubular tyres for riding around potholed, dangerous, congested London? Aren't you going to look a little bit silly if anyone overtakes you?

If you find changing an inner tube a chore I assume you won't be mending any punctured tubular tyres either, it's fiddly and takes ages. Have you also considered the cost of tubs with long valves and how often you're likely to puncture them?

I'd go for a set of 60mm carbon clinchers and either keep the Askiums or replace with some slightly 'blingier' decent semi aero 30mm ali clinchers (Cosmic elites, Halos, Swissside St Bernard etc) for London.

60mm carbon clinchers - Either Planet X or Fuerte Bici:
http://www.fuertebici.com/shop/60mm-carbon-clinche...

It doesn't take much to write off something exotic like a £500 Zipp - I've done it!

[itsnotarace]

I wouldn't use carbon wheels for commuting but that's up to you. Why not get two sets of wheels

http://bikesoul.com/2009/index.php?option=com_cont... for sunny sundays at £680
http://bikesoul.com/2009/index.php?option=com_cont... for daily commute at £318

Would require pad changes between wheels though

[stongle]

Ideally I'd be keeping the the Aksiums for commuting, but want something for Le Weekend as it were. It seems the flaws in my plan are coming out. The pad changing and the long valves on Tubeless is NOT something I had fully considered....

I could go with a set of Gurus from Planet X for commuting and then a set of Mavics or Fulcrums for the weekend, but that means selling my Lemond to hide the expenditure form wife.....

[okgo]

The answer is to just get carbon clinchers with alloy brake tracks by the sounds of it - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZIPP-404-CARBON-ALLOY-CL...

A bit over budget, but good wheels, good residual value, and easy to swap in and out (I have the same set)

[anonymous-user]

Agree with the above, carbon wheels for commuting is OTT. Plus you will probably be taking them off on windy/wet days. Full carbons are also a PITA in the wet IME. I borrowed a set of FFWD's with a view to buying them off of a guy in the club. One wet chain gang ride where I needed to brake unexpectadly had me a bit concerned, brake...... nothing, nothing, BITE!

I have used Fulcrum Zeros for all sorts of riding and the only thing I would say to you is they will knacker your ride comfort as they are pretty stiff wheels. They are very tough and roll well, only the absolutely ste graphics let them down but that doesn't really affect the performance. For everyday I use the Fulcrum 7, not light or clever but they are bombproof and cheap. Last weekend a guy in our group had the Carbone SLR's and got blown all over the road

If you have the cash and like bling I would be looking at Enve wheels, I wouldn't commute on them either but every test I have seen they get rave reviews about their stability and speed. Those cheap light wheels from Superstars look to good to be true...I am tempted to try a pair though?

[Rolls]

I had the same dilemma a while back - upgrading the wheels on my Ulgetra supersix...
Was either going to go for some Reynolds, or better Mavics - went for Ksyrium SL's in the end as they're in keeping with the bike, and as much as I love the look of carbon wheels, I'd feel a little nervous on them!
Good luck in deciding!

[IroningMan]

I have Ksyriums for day-to-day and Planet-X 50's for high days and holidays.

Changing the pads takes five minutes - swap the keeper screws for allen heads to make them more durable - and Tufo make tubs that will fold into a space not much bigger than a couple of inner tubes if you want to carry a spare. Valve extenders negate the need for tubs with weird long valves.

Carbon clinchers with an alloy brake track will be easiest, though. Most seem to be alloy rims with a carbon fairing, but some are all-carbon with a bonded-on brake track.

[okgo]

Not many though. Zipp are, I think one of the few that are still carbon with a bonded brake track.

[IroningMan]

I think you're probably right. Dura-Ace C50's a good bet at under £1k from CRC, though.

[Raoul Duke]

Re using different brakes for different wheels, not sure if it helps, but I’ve just changed the brake pads on my bike that runs 50mm deep, full carbon clinchers ( i.e. no alu brake track ), to swiss stop yellows. The chap in the shop told me that "apparently" I can now swap my wheels now without having to swap the pads as well which makes life easier in our unpredictable climate.

Yet to actually try them on my alu rims, but was told that so long as you are careful to make sure that there are no shards stuck in the pads when you change the wheels back ( which will trash the carbon brake track ), they should be ok.

I'd always been wary of using these wheels in the rain, but noticed a massive improvement in braking performance when caught out the other day; so much so that I am now happy to run them in all weathers and essentially use them as an only wheelset. It certainly saves having to prat around changing wheels every time it looks like rain, or even worse, having to use the winter bike in the summer...
Although it still pays to be a little more cautious on descents as they will never brake as well as a decent aluminium rim, and be aware that If you do pull the trigger on some bling carbon - side winds really are a bh on deep section wheels!! No exaggeration, I got caught on the top of the moors the other week, in admittedly near gale force winds, and was getting blown across the road so badly I had to slow to a snails pace.

If you are still considering the Fulrum Zeros they are on offer with a number of outlets at the moment, and as someone who has ridden their Campag cousins ( Shamals ) for 000’s of miles I can confirm they really are a quality wheelset. The hubs are superb, particularly if you can get the model with the ceramic bearings. They are bloody stiff though, making them quite harsh on certain road surfaces, but stiff also equals fast!

[Jimbo.]

stongle said:

New Wheelset????

I'm currently in the market for a new Road wheelset. Budget is max "a bag of sand" (grand / £1000), to include skewers, tyres etc.

My riding is a mix of commuting into London (14-15miles each way x 3 times a week) and weekend rides in the 30-50m range (although building up to 100km for the Haywards Heath Howler).

I'm NOT a spectacular climber, but tend to find riding at 20mph+ fairly easy when not on a climb.

I'm Riding a 2011 BMC ProMachine (Ultegra SL), and the wheelset it come with (Mavic Aksium) is perhaps a little too heavy (in the rolling weight dept), and there to get it out of the shop (the assumption being the wheels will be updated and the Aksiums used for training). Whilst these not holding me back per-se, I think I could do with a new set; certainly for weekend rides.

Actually in reality, they're just not bling enough and the guy at the bike shop said aero wheels might be a good upgrade (he could smell my desperation for some new shiny stuff); plus my cycling buddy just got a set from Planet X and we have a sort of cycling arms race going on…

Anyway, my problem (as such) is; do I go for a Aero set or just stick with a more traditional wheel. I also dislike tyre changes intensely, so tubular seems to be the way to go… I'm narrowed down to 2 in particular:

Cosmic Carbones SL: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...

Or

Fulcrum Racing Zero: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...

Now the Cosmics, appear to weigh in the same as my Aksiums and whilst I get that they have aerodynamic properties for riding in excess of 20mph; not entirely sure this helps me up hills. The Fulcrums are substantially lighter (and perhaps more bling, so much so I might need a new bike carrier with Kahn on it); but would the potential aero benefits of the Cosmics negate the weight savings of the Fulcrums.

The inner child also says that the Cosmics will make a nicer whooshing sound when I get to pass the odd cyclist, but the Fulcrums really are quite natty.

So, in all seriouness does anyone have any experience (not so much on these wheels); but Aero wheels Vs standard ones at this price bracket? What should I be looking for, and is there a substantial pro / con to each type (I suspect I will get a less biased view in here).

Also, is there a substantial risk that the Carbon wheelset will disintigrate "if" I were to ride it in London (on the odd occasion I can't be bothered to change back to training wheels).

Oh, and dare I say it; anything else to consider (NOT second hand or e-bay specials)???

Thanks-muchly.

Cheap/strong wheels for the commute and a nice wheels for Sunday best/racing. For the cheap/commuting wheels, something bog-basic like Tiagra/105 hubs on Open Pro rims, 32 spokes. Then run 'em into the group or keep 'em as spares. Being "traditional" in build, parts will be easily obtainable should you pop a spoke of a wet Wednesday morning commute. Try that with a factory wheel!

For the nice ones, Shimano RS80s (Dura-Ace rims, Ultegra hubs!) if you want factory, OR if you want rolling luxury, speak to someone like Wheelsmith,Harry Rowland or Paul Hewit. Bespoke wheels, tailored for your exact requirements...doesn't get better.

Run clinchers: less faff than tubulars in the long run, and easy to fix at the roadside and carry on your merry way. GP4000S' or Vittoria Open Pave CX/Open Corsas, om-nom-nom!

Edited by Jimbo. on Tuesday 3rd July 22:32

[AyBee]

okgo said:

Not many though. Zipp are, I think one of the few that are still carbon with a bonded brake track.

I assume that's the difference between the wheels you posted earlier and the Carbone SLs? Although it looks like there's not much in it in terms of weight? I'm very tempted by a set of Carbones once I get the new bike but they will only be a nice weather set since I don't commute on the road bike. Not sure I want to faff about setting up pads every time I want to change wheels.

[Mr Will]

With a grand to spend I'd agree with the others - buy something like a set of rs80 c50s for the bling plus a new set of everyday wheels in the ~£300 range. Easy to swap between and gives you options for windy days, hilly rides, etc.

[anonymous-user]

Does anyone here have hand built wheels and how do they compare to high end factory
clinchers? I know a couple of guys who used a wheelbuilder to lace a powertap but would be interested to see what the cost vs performance is. Something like a Fulcrum zero with ceramic bearings I would have thought would be quite difficult to beat all things considered?

[okgo]

AyBee said:

I assume that's the difference between the wheels you posted earlier and the Carbone SLs? Although it looks like there's not much in it in terms of weight? I'm very tempted by a set of Carbones once I get the new bike but they will only be a nice weather set since I don't commute on the road bike. Not sure I want to faff about setting up pads every time I want to change wheels.

The zipps are nearly 200g lighter than Cosmics. They have smoother hubs I would think (although less solid than Mavic) they are more aero anyway and probably better in a cross wind, but the mavics are a reliable wheel no doubt.