Discussion
On a long ride yesterday I developed a severe pain in the outside of my right knee. It became so painful that I couldn't ride up even a slight gradient. Over time the same pain manifested itself in my left knee in the same place, but maybe not quite so bad.
First off, I have an appointment with a physio on Wednesday for him to have a good look at the knee. Hopefully there will be no long term damage, and it will right itself in due course.
But second, obviously there has to be a cause to this. Back in November I injured my left knee, and had a long period of recommended rest from the doctor. This was not the best thing I found, since the rest left me less fit, and the knee felt weaker. So, I would have expected the left knee to go first. On that basis, I am somewhat discounting the cause of pain as my body, and tending to think it is my bike and my positions on it.
Folks I have spoken to have suggested a professional bike fit, which of course costs. LBS has suggested that while this can be useful, each person is different and a fitting only give a rough idea of best adjustments. PLus, such fitting have a reasonable waiting list to be done.
So, in the interim, what are suggestions to try? The big problem is that any adjustment I make will not show whether it has solved/eased the problem until I get 30 miles or so under the wheels on any ride.
First off, I have an appointment with a physio on Wednesday for him to have a good look at the knee. Hopefully there will be no long term damage, and it will right itself in due course.
But second, obviously there has to be a cause to this. Back in November I injured my left knee, and had a long period of recommended rest from the doctor. This was not the best thing I found, since the rest left me less fit, and the knee felt weaker. So, I would have expected the left knee to go first. On that basis, I am somewhat discounting the cause of pain as my body, and tending to think it is my bike and my positions on it.
Folks I have spoken to have suggested a professional bike fit, which of course costs. LBS has suggested that while this can be useful, each person is different and a fitting only give a rough idea of best adjustments. PLus, such fitting have a reasonable waiting list to be done.
So, in the interim, what are suggestions to try? The big problem is that any adjustment I make will not show whether it has solved/eased the problem until I get 30 miles or so under the wheels on any ride.
Cycling the mile's you are £200.00 on a bike fit is money well spent on injury prevention.
A short term solution is either take the SPD's off and ride flattys and trainers or....
Sit on a table and dangle your legs clear, swing them back and forward then alow them to come to a rest without any input from you. Peer over the table (try not to fall off) at the angle of each foot relative to the straight ahead. This should give you some indication of how much each cleat needs adjusting and which way.
What is your average cadence and how do you tackle hills?
A short term solution is either take the SPD's off and ride flattys and trainers or....
Sit on a table and dangle your legs clear, swing them back and forward then alow them to come to a rest without any input from you. Peer over the table (try not to fall off) at the angle of each foot relative to the straight ahead. This should give you some indication of how much each cleat needs adjusting and which way.
What is your average cadence and how do you tackle hills?
Edited by crisisjez on Monday 30th July 16:54
crisisjez said:
Sit on a table and dangle your legs clear, swing them back and forward then aloow them to come to a rest without any input from you. Peer over the table (try not to fall off) at the angle of each foot relative to the straight ahead. This should give you some indication of how much each cleat needs adjusting and which way.
Now that is the kind of thing I was looking for. At the moment the cleats are set dead ahead, which is obviously a potential 'wrongness'. I've tried standing without thinking about it and looking down, but my feet are pretty much looking to be straight. Of course at the minute I also have severe pain in particularly my right knee, so now is probably a bad time to do this.Edited by crisisjez on Monday 30th July 16:49
As for the bike fit thing, if I could guarantee it was going to work, as you say £200 is nothing. The only other problem is I would have difficulty at this time of year to get an odd day off to go have it done.
I suffered from severe pain on the lower outside of knee, after borrowing a friends hybrid for a sponsored cycle. Set the bike up (Bars, pedals, seatpost etc) and for the first 6 hours of a three day ride, had the seat post about 1.5 inches too high. So was over extending my knee... seat down and a trip to the oesteopath, and its back to normal...
daz3210 said:
Well tbh if I listened to most of the things on the internet, my seat is too low. When I sit on the seat and put pedals to lowest point when I am clipped in my heel is lower than the pedal, which is why I worry about whether a bike fit is worth it.
It is too low and will put pressure on the knees
I have a problem in both knees. It's not too bad when on the bike but is worst when climbing stairs. I believe that my pains are caused by cycling, sitting at a desk, inadequate stretching and genetics. I think my hams are short. I have managed to get my knees pretty much back to normal through stretching. In particular I lean standing against a wall with my legs crossed. Trying to get the outside foot flat to the floor. This stretches enough to relieve the pain behind knee.
I agree that saddle height, cleat position and the amount of float are important.
I agree that saddle height, cleat position and the amount of float are important.
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/sport/a/bikefit...
Seat too high, you're fooked. Seat too low, you're also fooked!
I am MTB rider, so use flats, and move all over the place depending on whether we're going up....or going doooown. I guess on a road bike your pretty stuck in the same positon for ages...
Seat too high, you're fooked. Seat too low, you're also fooked!
I am MTB rider, so use flats, and move all over the place depending on whether we're going up....or going doooown. I guess on a road bike your pretty stuck in the same positon for ages...
Edited by ysnnim on Tuesday 31st July 08:27
The pain at the front of the knee definitely sounds like you are too low for one thing. As a simple initial guide, with your heel on the pedal at its lowest point your leg should be pretty much straight. Then, when the ball of your foot is on the pedal there should be a slight bend in the leg at the lowest point.
However, pain on the outside of the knees usually means that the foot is too far in when pedalling so you need to move the cleat inwards (and therefore the foot out).
You may also need to move the saddle back a little but I'd see how the first adjustments go before doing that.
However, pain on the outside of the knees usually means that the foot is too far in when pedalling so you need to move the cleat inwards (and therefore the foot out).
You may also need to move the saddle back a little but I'd see how the first adjustments go before doing that.
Edited by HardWorkers on Tuesday 31st July 11:06
HardWorkers said:
The pain at the front of the knee definitely sounds like you are too low for one thing. As a simple initial guide, with your heel on the pedal at its lowest point your leg should be pretty much straight. Then, when the ball of your foot is on the pedal there should be a slight bend in the leg at the lowest point.
However, pain on the outside of the knees usually means that the foot is too far in when pedalling so you need to move the cleat inwards (and therefore the foot out).
You may also need to move the saddle back a little but I'd see how the first adjustments go before doing that.
Thanks for that, I was wondering if I need to look at angles too with the cleat. I've tried dangling my legs loose, but my feet look pretty much straight when I do this, but I am still in a good bit of pain, so it may not be the best time.However, pain on the outside of the knees usually means that the foot is too far in when pedalling so you need to move the cleat inwards (and therefore the foot out).
You may also need to move the saddle back a little but I'd see how the first adjustments go before doing that.
Edited by HardWorkers on Tuesday 31st July 11:06
daz3210 said:
Mmmmmmm......
So some say seat too high, some say too low.
If its any indicator, as the pain in the side of my knee subsides I can feel a little discomfort below the kneecap across the front. Left knee feels pretty much normal now.
Right. Outside of the knee sounds like your IT band is tight. Go see a physio and they will tell you whether that's the case or not (If it is your ITB, try not to scream when they start to work the outside of your quad). So some say seat too high, some say too low.
If its any indicator, as the pain in the side of my knee subsides I can feel a little discomfort below the kneecap across the front. Left knee feels pretty much normal now.
Pain at the front under and below the kneecap can be tendonitis, caused by the tendon taking up too much work once the quad tires. Distance runners can suffer this, and if you've upped your distances and are riding through fatigue, you might have a touch of this. Sit on the edge of a table and gently kick your foot forward with your hand on your kneecap. If you can feel a slight grinding, that's the tendon sounded slightly inflamed. Rest, ice, anti-inflams.
Saddle height - assuming you're on a road
Find a tape measure, a hardback book and a close friend. Stand barefoot against a wall. Friend places the book between your knees with one edge flat against the wall. Bring the book up SLOWLY until it will go no higher. You waddle forwards and away, taking care not to move or knock the book. Measure from the top edge of the book to the floor. That's your inseam.
Now multiply that by .883, and set the result as your saddle height. Saddle height means centre of the BB axle to the surface of the saddle, measured along the seat tube. If your current saddle height is > 1cm away from this, move to this height in two equal steps, separated by say 60-100 miles.
Skip the bike fitting. Everything you've said you're suffering so far can be fixed with saddle height and pedals. Fitting will monkey around with your upper body too, where you don't have problems.
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