What makes a bike fast?
Discussion
Simple question I know but one I should imagine will provoke quite a debate..
Assuming a bike is setup correctly for the rider what makes the major difference? Good wheels? Frame material? Strong tailwind?
The reason I ask is that after a good few hundreds miles on my winter bike I'm just as happy on it as I am the carbon bike that was crash damaged. Wheels have remained the same as have the groupset and and contact points, geometry is not a million miles away and my enjoyment is much the same.
Next year I'll be replacing my good bike, at the moment I'm swayed towards Ti but the more I read of steel the more it appeals, would that be as fast? I should imagine over a timed course it would be similar but would it feel as fast as carbon?
Assuming a bike is setup correctly for the rider what makes the major difference? Good wheels? Frame material? Strong tailwind?
The reason I ask is that after a good few hundreds miles on my winter bike I'm just as happy on it as I am the carbon bike that was crash damaged. Wheels have remained the same as have the groupset and and contact points, geometry is not a million miles away and my enjoyment is much the same.
Next year I'll be replacing my good bike, at the moment I'm swayed towards Ti but the more I read of steel the more it appeals, would that be as fast? I should imagine over a timed course it would be similar but would it feel as fast as carbon?
^ Exactly
The frame material has very little to do with anything, other than weight to some extent. How it rides is mainly about the design and manufacturing of the frame.
It always makes me smile when I see people going on about how carbon is the only thing that matters and that they wouldn't ride anything else, but at least it's a good way of telling who knows what's what.
The frame material has very little to do with anything, other than weight to some extent. How it rides is mainly about the design and manufacturing of the frame.
It always makes me smile when I see people going on about how carbon is the only thing that matters and that they wouldn't ride anything else, but at least it's a good way of telling who knows what's what.
I've only got a MTB but I can take off in top gear with a pair of 25mm Conti grand prix tyres. But they are a nightmare to get off the rim and puncture easily, which is a bad combination!
But assuming you're running somewhere around 23mm tyres, powerful legs and a decent sized chain ring. And although i've never tried them, SPD pedals if you don't already use them.
But assuming you're running somewhere around 23mm tyres, powerful legs and a decent sized chain ring. And although i've never tried them, SPD pedals if you don't already use them.
Agree with all of the above, engine, attitude (I have to odd day where the legs are willing but the mind can't be bothered), but I would say a pair of decent-ish wheels made the difference on my bike. I had a set of stock Felt branded wheels on mine at 2200g's - replaced with RS80's at 1500g's and they made a big difference climbing and spinning up, on the move on the flat there was no real noticeable difference.
As others have said, its the engine. frame material is largely irrelevant in terms of what makes a bike "fast" and I'm sure the pros could still destroy us on a steel or alu bike. Sure you can hunt marginal gains through training, a better riding position, lighter components etc etc but thats just how we justify spending money on things we dont need
Carbon is interesting in that it can be layered to do different things, flexible and comfy or stiff and rigid is all down to the design. Whilst you can do similar things with different grades of metal, double/triple butting etc, its that versatile nature of carbon which makes it appealing to manufacturers these days.
you could get quite techy and say things like the reduced rolling resitance of thin tubular tyres on aero rims with high quality bearings make a bike fast but I look at it the other way and argue that those things reduce the power required by the rider to maintain a similar speed with rubbish wheels etc
in short, the engine.
Carbon is interesting in that it can be layered to do different things, flexible and comfy or stiff and rigid is all down to the design. Whilst you can do similar things with different grades of metal, double/triple butting etc, its that versatile nature of carbon which makes it appealing to manufacturers these days.
you could get quite techy and say things like the reduced rolling resitance of thin tubular tyres on aero rims with high quality bearings make a bike fast but I look at it the other way and argue that those things reduce the power required by the rider to maintain a similar speed with rubbish wheels etc
in short, the engine.
It's a combination of things. And whilst it's cool for everyone to say "the engine". It's not just that really is it?
If a guy of average ability got on a £200 snotter (road bike) from Halfords and rode a 20km TT course, and then got on a full Carbon, hig spec TT bike. He's going to be a hell of a lot quicker over the same course on the TT bike. So obviously there are a lot of other things that make a bike fast.
So whilst the rider is the most important factor, the equipment can also make a big difference when you're talking either ends of the spectrum!
If a guy of average ability got on a £200 snotter (road bike) from Halfords and rode a 20km TT course, and then got on a full Carbon, hig spec TT bike. He's going to be a hell of a lot quicker over the same course on the TT bike. So obviously there are a lot of other things that make a bike fast.
So whilst the rider is the most important factor, the equipment can also make a big difference when you're talking either ends of the spectrum!
Edited by nick s on Wednesday 7th November 14:05
sorry but the responses above are essentially a nonsense. assuming the rider / engine / legs is the same then what makes the bike faster is overall frame weight, type of wheels and gearing.
i frequently go on my 20 mile tt loop on my roadie specialized venge and also on my commuter genesis vapour. consistently my average speed is 4mph higher over this distance on the venge. same legs, same person riding it. however the two bikes are poles apart in terms of how they ride and how fast they go, how the manage climbs etc
pointless thread this. can't believe i'm wasting my time answering it!
i frequently go on my 20 mile tt loop on my roadie specialized venge and also on my commuter genesis vapour. consistently my average speed is 4mph higher over this distance on the venge. same legs, same person riding it. however the two bikes are poles apart in terms of how they ride and how fast they go, how the manage climbs etc
pointless thread this. can't believe i'm wasting my time answering it!
MAybe if we look at the question a different way.
For a chap or chapess with a road bike, who has been riding it for a while, but wants to make some changes to go faster for longer what changes should he/she make, and in what order?
Cheap(ish):
Proper bike fit.
Proper bike service.
New tyres.
SPD's
Costlier:
New wheels.
Other misc. shiny things to lose weight and improve power transfer.
For a chap or chapess with a road bike, who has been riding it for a while, but wants to make some changes to go faster for longer what changes should he/she make, and in what order?
Cheap(ish):
Proper bike fit.
Proper bike service.
New tyres.
SPD's
Costlier:
New wheels.
Other misc. shiny things to lose weight and improve power transfer.
louiebaby said:
MAybe if we look at the question a different way.
For a chap or chapess with a road bike, who has been riding it for a while, but wants to make some changes to go faster for longer what changes should he/she make, and in what order?
Cheap(ish):
Proper bike fit.
Proper bike service.
New tyres.
SPD's
Costlier:
New wheels.
Other misc. shiny things to lose weight and improve power transfer.
+ better training program probably (but not always) involving more miles, better sleep, better nutrition.For a chap or chapess with a road bike, who has been riding it for a while, but wants to make some changes to go faster for longer what changes should he/she make, and in what order?
Cheap(ish):
Proper bike fit.
Proper bike service.
New tyres.
SPD's
Costlier:
New wheels.
Other misc. shiny things to lose weight and improve power transfer.
Although the engine plays a big part, there is one critical factor that is often overlooked and that is fatigue caused by ride comfort. Under TdF / Olympic Road Race type conditions the vibrations being transmitted to the rider have a big impact on average speed.
Wheels, Frame and Contact points that are too stiff will transmit every imperfection back to the rider thus increasing fatigue over a bike that offers some level of damping from road 'buzz'.
Wheels, Frame and Contact points that are too stiff will transmit every imperfection back to the rider thus increasing fatigue over a bike that offers some level of damping from road 'buzz'.
What I don't get are all the people banging on about how their £4000 bike is faster than their old £1500 one when they don't compete or race with it.
What's the point of doing the same weekend ride with a faster bike, are you making use of the weight savings by cycling further than you were before? Surely you're just doing the same ride 2mins quicker. Aren't you actually doing less exercise if your new bike is easier on your weekend ride?
Sure it's great to buy new stuff but the performance increase is only "we'll worth it IMHO" if you actually race the thing.
It's like some guy arguing that his new Porsche is "well worth it" over his old one just because its 0.05 seconds faster to 100 mph when he doesn't race or compete with it.
What's the point of doing the same weekend ride with a faster bike, are you making use of the weight savings by cycling further than you were before? Surely you're just doing the same ride 2mins quicker. Aren't you actually doing less exercise if your new bike is easier on your weekend ride?
Sure it's great to buy new stuff but the performance increase is only "we'll worth it IMHO" if you actually race the thing.
It's like some guy arguing that his new Porsche is "well worth it" over his old one just because its 0.05 seconds faster to 100 mph when he doesn't race or compete with it.
nick s said:
the equipment can also make a big difference when you're talking either ends of the spectrum!
Rob_T said:
sorry but the responses above are essentially a nonsense. assuming the rider / engine / legs is the same then what makes the bike faster is overall frame weight, type of wheels and gearing.
It's only you two talking about opposite ends of the spectrum. OP Stated same wheels/groupset and everything else, just the material the frame is made from that would be different. Rob_T said:
can't believe i'm wasting my time answering it!
Me neitherAnd anyway, you could go as fast on your Genesis. You would just have to work harder.....so entirely down to the engine.
rhinochopig said:
Although the engine plays a big part, there is one critical factor that is often overlooked and that is fatigue caused by ride comfort. Under TdF / Olympic Road Race type conditions the vibrations being transmitted to the rider have a big impact on average speed.
Wheels, Frame and Contact points that are too stiff will transmit every imperfection back to the rider thus increasing fatigue over a bike that offers some level of damping from road 'buzz'.
Absolutely. If anyone asks me what road biek to buy, my advice is invariably, at least at the £600 - £1200 end of the spectrum, is "The one that feels right when you ride it."Wheels, Frame and Contact points that are too stiff will transmit every imperfection back to the rider thus increasing fatigue over a bike that offers some level of damping from road 'buzz'.
Also, unless you're lucky to have really good roads, changing the 23 tyres to 25s can help the comfort and feeling of being on tenterhooks looking out for potholes. (That can be mentally very draining too.)
rhinochopig said:
Although the engine plays a big part, there is one critical factor that is often overlooked and that is fatigue caused by ride comfort. Under TdF / Olympic Road Race type conditions the vibrations being transmitted to the rider have a big impact on average speed.
Wheels, Frame and Contact points that are too stiff will transmit every imperfection back to the rider thus increasing fatigue over a bike that offers some level of damping from road 'buzz'.
Wheels, frame, and contact points make sweet FA difference to "road buzz"Wheels, Frame and Contact points that are too stiff will transmit every imperfection back to the rider thus increasing fatigue over a bike that offers some level of damping from road 'buzz'.
Things that do make a difference:
Quality of padded shorts
Tyre pressure
Tyre volume
HTH
I find that a bike that fits is the most important way of making speed. regardless of aero this and that. From riding bikes that just didnt fit to my current bikes make a big difference. It has taken a long time to get a fit right, but I am using off the shelf bikes and then start the changes. I now know where I need to be, when buying a bike to get it 'as' close as I can , before tweeking it to being right.With that out of your mind, with being comfortable, you can concentrate more on making speed.
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