tell me about wheels

[jackh707]

Currently have a Giant TCR which is doing me great, had it 18 months. I like the frame and groupset, but fancy an upgrade on the wheels.
What do people reccommend, mostly a road rider but entering duathalons/tris next year.
I do go out when its windy and I'm fairly heavy, 15stoneish. I'm looking to spend around £300, is it worth it at this price point?

[Jimbo.]

Yes. IIRC £270 will get you some Mavic Open Pros laced onto Shimano 105 (maybe Ultegra, I'm not sure) hubs by Paul Hewitt. All the wheel 95% of cyclists would ever need once you strip away the marketing and desire for bling

Wheels of this nature (often referred to as "handbuilts" or "traditional" wheels) can be strong(er) and almost as light as any equivalent price-point factory made wheel. The strength itself comes from the build. If they're built by someone who knows what they're doing (Paul Hewitt, Wheelsmith, Harry Rowland etc), you're laughing. Additionally the use of off-the-shelf parts means they're easily repairable.

Edited by Jimbo. on Sunday 25th November 14:42

[anonymous-user]

what Jimbo said.......

[offendi]

see above

But you will be told that you need carbon aero rims with a dozen spokes and fixed gear. Its safe to ignore those people

[gazza285]

I'm confused. Why would hand built wheels be any better than factory built wheels? If the wheels are not built correctly they will not be round and true, however they are made. Other than the choice of components I can not see a benefit, and I was a professional wheelbuilder a few years back.

Just don't use alloy nipples on stainless spokes.

[Jimbo.]

gazza285 said:

I'm confused. Why would hand built wheels be any better than factory built wheels? If the wheels are not built correctly they will not be round and true, however they are made. Other than the choice of components I can not see a benefit, and I was a professional wheelbuilder a few years back.

Just don't use alloy nipples on stainless spokes.

As a pro wheel builder, you should know then that factory built wheels are made just as much for marketing (Lighter! Stiffer!) as they are riding, if not more so. Sometimes ridiculous builds in the name of weight and looks, resulting in harsh and/or fragile and/or compromised wheels, for which spares are utterly impossible to source. You end up with a mega-tensioned wheel with a heavy rim, that should it pop a spoke (quite likely), it's game over. And, as said, you try sourcing spare spokes, rims etc. for some of them. You also get a situation wherein a factory wheel is built to suit a particular rider/riders/type of riding, and therefore may not be idea for another riders needs.

A handbuilt can be tailored to a riders exact requirements, will have reliability on its side, will be of a "sensible" build and therefore ride, and will, thanks to easy-to-source spares, last a lifetime.

How many pro teams slap Mavic, Shimano, Zipp etc. stickers on wheels that look *remarkably* like Ambrosio Nemesis rims and Campag or Shimano hubs, during the Spring Classics?

[anonymous-user]

what Jimbo said....

i could write loads about wheels as I still havent decided what to buy despite at least 4 months of deliberating but will save you the ordeal!...

Wheel buliders tend to favour a greater quantity of, and even spoke distribution around the wheel. this helps reduce stress placed on spokes increasing reliability and includes the "get you home" factor where a spoke breaking isnt going to put the rim so far out oof shape that riding it home is impossible.

i appreciate that many people have put thousands of miles on what are considered unconventional spoke patterns (things like Gipiemme etc) and factory built wheels probably do look much better though but we are suckered into now thinking that less spokes is better, lighter weight, better looking etc etc by the manufacturers when its not quite the case.

you can get a pair of wheels built up with some nice 30mm Kinlin rims, also known as IRD aero, for near enough the same price as open pros or if you do want something that looks a bit less traditional, loads of people rate campag zondas and at 15 stone, you shouldnt have a problem with reliability but i'd still go for something with even distribution and something like 20/24 spokes front and rear....

[itsnotarace]

pablo said:

at 15 stone, you shouldnt have a problem with reliability but i'd still go for something with even distribution and something like 20/24 spokes front and rear....

Curious as to why you are telling him to steer away from factory wheels with a high tension/low spoke count and in the next breath recommending a handbuilt high tension/low spoke count wheel?

[anonymous-user]

itsnotarace said:

pablo said:

at 15 stone, you shouldnt have a problem with reliability but i'd still go for something with even distribution and something like 20/24 spokes front and rear....

Curious as to why you are telling him to steer away from factory wheels with a high tension/low spoke count and in the next breath recommending a handbuilt high tension/low spoke count wheel?

I'm not, the clue is "even distribution". I wouldnt have thought that 20/24 is considered a low spoke count these days. Not when compared to something like RS80 C24s which are 16/20 which although have uniform distribution, I wouldnt trust not to flex sufficiently to rub brake blocks when out of the saddle at 15 stone.

Also bear in mind, that a wheel bulider is going to recommend a higher quality spoke compared to that used in a factory wheel for the same reason that a carpenter would rather build you a table out of oak and not mdf.

[itsnotarace]

Spoke placement (by that I mean elbows in or out/ straight pull), spoke tension, spoke count, type of lacing used, hub flange width and rim strength contribute more to lateral stiffness than spoke quality.

The quality of the spokes is more related to spoke weight (via butting) and aerodynamics. Cheap heavy spokes can still be strong for example.

20/24 is still a low spoke count though.

32/36 would be more common for a heavier/powerful(ly built with goatee) rider

[anonymous-user]

I did say I could write loads.... I just chose not too

[NitroNick]

While we're talking about wheels.....has anyone any experience of Madfibers. Tempted to get a set but they just seem to be good to be true, there has to be a catch...

[okgo]

I think the catch may be the £2500 price tag ;-)

[BMWBen]

"Too good to be true" normally implies that something is much cheaper than you would expect... I'm going with "expensive exotic wheels with an expensive exotic price tag"

[itsnotarace]

NitroNick said:

While we're talking about wheels.....has anyone any experience of Madfibers. Tempted to get a set but they just seem to be good to be true, there has to be a catch...

Given how the spokes are crafted you should definitely consider a crash replacement policy. You are asking on the wrong forum though, try weightweenies - there are a number of owners on there.

[jackh707]

Interesting comments guys, loads of helpful stuff, those hewitt wheels look like the kind of thing I'm after.

How effective are aero wheels, compared to normal style, I assume they are heavier, and therefore worse up hills and accelerating?

[BMWBen]

jackh707 said:

Interesting comments guys, loads of helpful stuff, those hewitt wheels look like the kind of thing I'm after.

How effective are aero wheels, compared to normal style, I assume they are heavier, and therefore worse up hills and accelerating?

As with many things in life - it depends how much you pay. If you're not going to be soloing at over 20mph I'd say aero wheels aren't worth it, but that's my opinion only. You can't ignore how cool they look unfortunately.

[shouldbworking]

Opinions on these, particularly in terms of value for money?

http://shop.kinetic-two.co.uk/2013-kinetic-one-k1-...

[anonymous-user]

shouldbworking said:

Opinions on these, particularly in terms of value for money?

http://shop.kinetic-two.co.uk/2013-kinetic-one-k1-...

they are fairly heavy so you are only getting a small aero benefit for the extra weight compared to Fulcrum 5s which are around £175, 150gs lighter and for completeness, have a rim depth of about 24mm....

it would be interesting to determine if that extra 9mm is worth 150gs though and my instinct leans towards the fact that it probably is on the basis that finding the same weight reduction elsewhere (tubes/tyres for example)isnt that hard or expensive

[gazza285]

Jimbo. said:

gazza285 said:

I'm confused. Why would hand built wheels be any better than factory built wheels? If the wheels are not built correctly they will not be round and true, however they are made. Other than the choice of components I can not see a benefit, and I was a professional wheelbuilder a few years back.

Just don't use alloy nipples on stainless spokes.

As a pro wheel builder, you should know then that factory built wheels are made just as much for marketing (Lighter! Stiffer!) as they are riding, if not more so. Sometimes ridiculous builds in the name of weight and looks, resulting in harsh and/or fragile and/or compromised wheels, for which spares are utterly impossible to source. You end up with a mega-tensioned wheel with a heavy rim, that should it pop a spoke (quite likely), it's game over. And, as said, you try sourcing spare spokes, rims etc. for some of them. You also get a situation wherein a factory wheel is built to suit a particular rider/riders/type of riding, and therefore may not be idea for another riders needs.

A handbuilt can be tailored to a riders exact requirements, will have reliability on its side, will be of a "sensible" build and therefore ride, and will, thanks to easy-to-source spares, last a lifetime.

How many pro teams slap Mavic, Shimano, Zipp etc. stickers on wheels that look *remarkably* like Ambrosio Nemesis rims and Campag or Shimano hubs, during the Spring Classics?

My point was more why would you spend £270 for a set of handbuilt Open Pro on 105 hubs when you can get them for £50 less off the shelf?