Trainerroad setup....?
Discussion
I finally managed to pickup my ANT+ USB stick from my LBS and signed up for Trainerroad this evening. I setup the account and TT as per the TR instructions (although I did have some issues getting the USB stick and cadence/speed sensor to pair - and stay paired), and took the 20 FTP test with what could only be described as worrying results!
I am suffering from a chest/head cold but put in a reasonably concerted effort, however was quite surprised at how low my FTP was calculated at, and how low my ave estimated power output for the session was. It is quite possible that I am s**t and should sell my bike(s) and take up golf, but before before I hang up my Bonts has anyone had setup issues with setting up Trainerroad correctly?
This was the workout; http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/256437 / http://app.strava.com/activities/44536456
Could have just been a bad session, but I worked hard!
I am suffering from a chest/head cold but put in a reasonably concerted effort, however was quite surprised at how low my FTP was calculated at, and how low my ave estimated power output for the session was. It is quite possible that I am s**t and should sell my bike(s) and take up golf, but before before I hang up my Bonts has anyone had setup issues with setting up Trainerroad correctly?
This was the workout; http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/256437 / http://app.strava.com/activities/44536456
Could have just been a bad session, but I worked hard!
There's definitely an issue with the setup. I looked at some of your "real world" rides on Strava and your avg speed on rides is definitely not from someone who only puts out 120 watts for 20 mins.
It's probably not the Trainerroad app itself and more likely to be something to do with the setup of your turbo. The speed -> power mapping that is used for VP is dependent on things like resistance setting, tension of resistance unit on rear wheel, tyre pressure etc and all of these things can distort the reported VP figure considerably.
Hopefully someone with your specific trainer will be able to share their setup. I use a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine so can't be any help really.
One thing to bear in mind: if you can't resolve the issue but the reported power is consistent then it doesn't really matter. It's the consistency that's the key with VP.
It's probably not the Trainerroad app itself and more likely to be something to do with the setup of your turbo. The speed -> power mapping that is used for VP is dependent on things like resistance setting, tension of resistance unit on rear wheel, tyre pressure etc and all of these things can distort the reported VP figure considerably.
Hopefully someone with your specific trainer will be able to share their setup. I use a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine so can't be any help really.
One thing to bear in mind: if you can't resolve the issue but the reported power is consistent then it doesn't really matter. It's the consistency that's the key with VP.
I must say I was intrigued by TrainerRoad when MadDad posted this - looks like an awesome training setup. From some of their videos (which I may have now spent some time watching...) I think you can set an offset power parameter. I think they compared a power meter versus the virtual power, and the difference (in their case) was a nearly constant 30 Watts.
I'm now tempted by the idea of TrainerRoad, damn you! What's the Kurt like GnuBee? Any reservations?
I'm now tempted by the idea of TrainerRoad, damn you! What's the Kurt like GnuBee? Any reservations?
Yes there is an issue there Lee. Not sure what but I'd be surprised if you don't manage to add 150 to that 20 min as a minimum.
Regarding real power vs traineroad, it's certainly not that accurate. A few guys I know have had estimates and then on actual power meters discovered they are actually some way down on the traineroad number.
Regarding real power vs traineroad, it's certainly not that accurate. A few guys I know have had estimates and then on actual power meters discovered they are actually some way down on the traineroad number.
There's a worrying trend of incorrect numbers. Guys I know saying that they can push all sorts of power, nothing is worse than this estimated stuff, may as well just stick your finger in the air. If its not repeatable then it's of no use to anyone.
Looking at the pace I would say 270-300 FTP, without knowing the gearing/resistance its difficult to say, it's not 120 though, that's recovery territory.
Looking at the pace I would say 270-300 FTP, without knowing the gearing/resistance its difficult to say, it's not 120 though, that's recovery territory.
Yep. But most people then get sucked into thinking that they're real figures. They're not and they're not close. So as long as that person is aware of that and doesn't start gobbling off (like a few I know have- who then get a rude awakening on a proper meter) about it everyone is happy.
I haven't used TR but I wouldn't rely on an algorithm myself. How does it work if you spin a gear higher, is it only speed??
My favourite thing about the power meter is the way it allows you to see if your peddle stroke is even, cadence can be fairly stable but the wattage quite variable. Bigger efforts are much harder when you are not peddling well, it's certainly helped me with my limited output!
My favourite thing about the power meter is the way it allows you to see if your peddle stroke is even, cadence can be fairly stable but the wattage quite variable. Bigger efforts are much harder when you are not peddling well, it's certainly helped me with my limited output!
Well, I had another go again today and tried the 2 x 8 mins FTP test with even lower results!!
I re-set the turbo trainer, upped the tyre pressure to make sure it was at 100psi, re-paired the H/R monitor and cadence sensor and tried again! I was probably slightly down on last night as I had a few beers last night and jumped on the TT before having any brekky, but once again the readings seem very low.
Thankfully I am not one to boast about my watts but it would be nice to know what I am capable of! I am at a total loss as to what could be wrong in the setup, the settings on TR all seem to be correct, if anything the flywheel on the TT is probably slightly too tight. I have had a look through the help pages on the TR web site but cannot seem to find any possible reasons for such huge discrepancies, I accept there would be a bit of a variance but it does seem quite a bit!
I might get myself along for an assessment at the LBS just as a matter of interest - never know, I might be Mr Tiny Watts.......
Today's test;
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/257033
http://app.strava.com/activities/44636236
I re-set the turbo trainer, upped the tyre pressure to make sure it was at 100psi, re-paired the H/R monitor and cadence sensor and tried again! I was probably slightly down on last night as I had a few beers last night and jumped on the TT before having any brekky, but once again the readings seem very low.
Thankfully I am not one to boast about my watts but it would be nice to know what I am capable of! I am at a total loss as to what could be wrong in the setup, the settings on TR all seem to be correct, if anything the flywheel on the TT is probably slightly too tight. I have had a look through the help pages on the TR web site but cannot seem to find any possible reasons for such huge discrepancies, I accept there would be a bit of a variance but it does seem quite a bit!
I might get myself along for an assessment at the LBS just as a matter of interest - never know, I might be Mr Tiny Watts.......
Today's test;
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/257033
http://app.strava.com/activities/44636236
Edited by MadDad on Saturday 16th March 19:30
yonex said:
I haven't used TR but I wouldn't rely on an algorithm myself. How does it work if you spin a gear higher, is it only speed??
My favourite thing about the power meter is the way it allows you to see if your peddle stroke is even, cadence can be fairly stable but the wattage quite variable. Bigger efforts are much harder when you are not peddling well, it's certainly helped me with my limited output!
Measures cadence too, so should be ok?My favourite thing about the power meter is the way it allows you to see if your peddle stroke is even, cadence can be fairly stable but the wattage quite variable. Bigger efforts are much harder when you are not peddling well, it's certainly helped me with my limited output!
I too am signing up soon- be interesting to see how I fair!
Possibly a silly question OP, but does TR show several differently numbered variations for your turbo?
If it does, and for example your turbo has different resistance settings - make sure you have the right one selected in TR to reflect that.
That's the only thing I can think which would affect the power reading (assuming your cadence looks accurate)?
If it does, and for example your turbo has different resistance settings - make sure you have the right one selected in TR to reflect that.
That's the only thing I can think which would affect the power reading (assuming your cadence looks accurate)?
MadDad said:
Compare that to mine from yesterday http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/256252As I said on Strava you are clearly a quicker pedaller than me out on the same roads. Our average speeds and leaderboard positions speak for themselves. Your FTP should closer to 300 than 100W
I notice you've picked "Tacx Sirius 1" for virtual power. Maybe try some of the other numbers? There appear to be 10 on there for some reason.
I had a problem on TR because there are 2 settings for my TT. One is from CycleOps' figures and the other is from configured powertap readings. One has me blowing out of my arse to get 140W whereas the configured one seems more consistent.
Rinko said:
Possibly a silly question OP, but does TR show several differently numbered variations for your turbo?
If it does, and for example your turbo has different resistance settings - make sure you have the right one selected in TR to reflect that.
That's the only thing I can think which would affect the power reading (assuming your cadence looks accurate)?
Actually I think that's likely to be it.If it does, and for example your turbo has different resistance settings - make sure you have the right one selected in TR to reflect that.
That's the only thing I can think which would affect the power reading (assuming your cadence looks accurate)?
The Sirius has 10 levels and TR has 10 levels.
HurryUpAndWait said:
What's the Kurt like GnuBee? Any reservations?
I chose the Kurt purely because that's the one recommended by Trainerroad and right from the start I knew I wanted to use Trainerroad.It's a simple turbo, no variable resistance for example but it seems to have earned a lot of respect for consistency, strength etc; I've certainly got no complaints.
As has been said, make sure you're using the correct profile - if the trainer has 1-10 resistance levels, you should be using the profile with the matching number; don't adjust the trainer resistance, use the gears on the bike to change the resistance. From what others have said, I doubt you've really got the trainer set on 1 (easiest) resistance level or you'd be spinning out left right and centre.
That said:
Don't expect 'virtual power' to be terribly accurate, but it should be fairly repeatable. The way it works is to know (through testing against a power meter) what the resistance curve of the trainer looks like - i.e. at 10mph it's absorbing X watts, 20, Y, 30.... and so on. Then all TR has to do is look at your wheel speed (hence gearing doesn't matter), and it knows what the trainer is absorbing power wise.
However, individual trainers vary, tyres vary, how hot the trainer is, how it warms up and a whole number of things can throw those numbers off. Don't sweat the number. Personally I've found my tacx sirius vp figure to under-read the powertap by about 30 watts.
The training value is still there - it gives you the same benefit in terms of accurately assessing effort level that a proper power meter does, just change the unit of measure, don't call them watts
That said:
Don't expect 'virtual power' to be terribly accurate, but it should be fairly repeatable. The way it works is to know (through testing against a power meter) what the resistance curve of the trainer looks like - i.e. at 10mph it's absorbing X watts, 20, Y, 30.... and so on. Then all TR has to do is look at your wheel speed (hence gearing doesn't matter), and it knows what the trainer is absorbing power wise.
However, individual trainers vary, tyres vary, how hot the trainer is, how it warms up and a whole number of things can throw those numbers off. Don't sweat the number. Personally I've found my tacx sirius vp figure to under-read the powertap by about 30 watts.
The training value is still there - it gives you the same benefit in terms of accurately assessing effort level that a proper power meter does, just change the unit of measure, don't call them watts
upsidedownmark said:
Don't expect 'virtual power' to be terribly accurate, but it should be fairly repeatable.
The training value is still there - it gives you the same benefit in terms of accurately assessing effort level that a proper power meter does, just change the unit of measure, don't call them watts
I would agree with that.The training value is still there - it gives you the same benefit in terms of accurately assessing effort level that a proper power meter does, just change the unit of measure, don't call them watts
As long as it gives me a consistent number and I can see improvements then that makes it worth the subscription fee. Plus the variation in workouts keeps it interesting.
Thanks for the feedback/suggestions, I have had the TR settings correct - the trainer has been running on the lowest resistance and the TR settings have been set to 'Sirius 1' - so all should be good there. HR, cadence and speed are all correct as I was running the Edge at the same time, so could see the figures on the laptop and Edge matched in realtime. I do tend to spin at quite a high rate, usually mid-90's on the road (unless there is a lot of climbing), and I usually spin at over 100 on a TT session.
I can only assume that as some have suggested the resistance on the turbo trainer is a bit too high, and therefore I need to adjust the setting to higher setting on TR, maybe 'Sirius 3 or 4', or adjust the tension of the roller against the wheel, trouble is any lower and I hear the tyre slip under effort.
As has been said, the most important element of the setup is consistency - so even if the measures are not quite correct as long as they stay consistently wrong it could be quite a useful tool. I will have another 'fettle' tomorrow and let you know how I get on, in the meantime keep the feedback coming!
@ TKF, I would not mind in taking you up on the offer, at least it would give me an idea of % how far out my measures are. Oh, and also now you know the most I can kick out over 20 mins is 120 there is no excuse for not meeting up and going for a spin!!!
I can only assume that as some have suggested the resistance on the turbo trainer is a bit too high, and therefore I need to adjust the setting to higher setting on TR, maybe 'Sirius 3 or 4', or adjust the tension of the roller against the wheel, trouble is any lower and I hear the tyre slip under effort.
As has been said, the most important element of the setup is consistency - so even if the measures are not quite correct as long as they stay consistently wrong it could be quite a useful tool. I will have another 'fettle' tomorrow and let you know how I get on, in the meantime keep the feedback coming!
@ TKF, I would not mind in taking you up on the offer, at least it would give me an idea of % how far out my measures are. Oh, and also now you know the most I can kick out over 20 mins is 120 there is no excuse for not meeting up and going for a spin!!!
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