New chain misbehaving
Discussion
I managed to amp my old chain tother day, it looked pretty borked so I bought a new one, the latest shimano 105, which is both reasonable and gets good reviews...
Anyway, I trimmed it to the same length as the old one, put it on... And since then it's just been jumping up and down the cassette all the time.
It's on the right way round, nicely lubed... I've tried adjusting the rear derailleur to no avail...
Any ideas?
Anyway, I trimmed it to the same length as the old one, put it on... And since then it's just been jumping up and down the cassette all the time.
It's on the right way round, nicely lubed... I've tried adjusting the rear derailleur to no avail...
Any ideas?
I think you'll need to change the rear cassette as well as it sounds like it's worn out and the new chain isn't sitting all the way down into the cogs. This is quite common as the teeth on the worn cogs wear and match the wear / stretch in the old chain; as you've found out when you fit a new chain it slips and jumps on the worn teeth.
Ok. Tiagra cassettes are 10 speed these days - about as cheap as you'll get I think - opens up some interesting choices ratio wise.
Do report back too - I'm interested largely 'cos I'm rather dubious about this replace chain and cassette stuff; after all, you don't replace the chain rings at the same time as a cassette, and for that matter, chains do not stretch (the rollers wear, which is a little different..)
FWIW I run a 12-28 tiagra on my road bike/climbing wheel, and 12-25 105 on my deep / time trial wheel, and chop and change both wheels between 2x bikes and chains (kmc) with ultegra / sram red front ends. 0 issue with any combination..
Do report back too - I'm interested largely 'cos I'm rather dubious about this replace chain and cassette stuff; after all, you don't replace the chain rings at the same time as a cassette, and for that matter, chains do not stretch (the rollers wear, which is a little different..)
FWIW I run a 12-28 tiagra on my road bike/climbing wheel, and 12-25 105 on my deep / time trial wheel, and chop and change both wheels between 2x bikes and chains (kmc) with ultegra / sram red front ends. 0 issue with any combination..
The effect of worn rollers is the same, though, which is to increase the pitch of the chain and its overall length.
The increased pitch affects the meshing of the chain with the teeth of the sprockets: in effect the two wear together, so the sprockets have increased pitch, too, possibly to the point that a new chain won't mesh correctly and will instead have every 10th or so link lifted onto the tips of the teeth.
Chainrings wear more slowly by virtue of their larger diameter, but they still wear - and need replacing when a new chain results in chainsuck.
The increased pitch affects the meshing of the chain with the teeth of the sprockets: in effect the two wear together, so the sprockets have increased pitch, too, possibly to the point that a new chain won't mesh correctly and will instead have every 10th or so link lifted onto the tips of the teeth.
Chainrings wear more slowly by virtue of their larger diameter, but they still wear - and need replacing when a new chain results in chainsuck.
For years I've replaced chain and cassette together because that's the advice you're given. But I always wondered it was necessary.
I too used the argument that the front set of cogs hasn't been changed ever, yet I've gone through three sets of cassette and chains.
Also, I'd read that if you replaced your chain every 6 months, before it stretches, you don't need to
So last time I changed, I only replaced the chain.
Two days later I was on all the cycling forums I go to asking the same thing.
The result being that now I would only replace the two together, but instead of doing it every six months, I do it once a year.
As far as I can tell thus far, there are no adverse affects to letting your chain stretch and wear out the rear cassette as they wear at the same rate.
I too used the argument that the front set of cogs hasn't been changed ever, yet I've gone through three sets of cassette and chains.
Also, I'd read that if you replaced your chain every 6 months, before it stretches, you don't need to
So last time I changed, I only replaced the chain.
Two days later I was on all the cycling forums I go to asking the same thing.
The result being that now I would only replace the two together, but instead of doing it every six months, I do it once a year.
As far as I can tell thus far, there are no adverse affects to letting your chain stretch and wear out the rear cassette as they wear at the same rate.
IroningMan said:
The effect of worn rollers is the same, though, which is to increase the pitch of the chain and its overall length.
Chainrings wear more slowly by virtue of their larger diameter, but they still wear - and need replacing when a new chain results in chainsuck.
Not convinced! With worn rollers you can force two adjacent rollers further apart, but under normal drive, they're all being displaced in the same direction, so there should be no difference in the pitch of the chain. The overall length of the chain is set by the dimension and number of the side plates. That cannot / does not change.Chainrings wear more slowly by virtue of their larger diameter, but they still wear - and need replacing when a new chain results in chainsuck.
Also, while chain rings are larger, there are less of them.. Some sprockets will get used more than others, but it then stands to reason that only some sprockets in the OP's cassette would be worn/skipping.
Perhaps unusually I have replaced a chain ring that was visibly worn and sucking, but not a cassette. Perhaps because I use cheapo cassettes that appear to be made of something rather harder than the chain rings, and perhaps because I went 10spd a couple of years back and had to replace the cassette anyway - not going anywhere near dura-ace cassettes/titanium sprockets!
I don't doubt that there comes a point where each part needs replacing, but I'm inclined to do it 'on-condition'. IMHO the need to do them together smells a little of something that had a grain of truth becoming a 'rule' perpetuated by folks with a vested interest in getting you to spend money rather than being based on solid necessity, like quite a lot of things in cycling
upsidedownmark said:
Not convinced! With worn rollers you can force two adjacent rollers further apart, but under normal drive, they're all being displaced in the same direction, so there should be no difference in the pitch of the chain. The overall length of the chain is set by the dimension and number of the side plates. That cannot / does not change.
Also, while chain rings are larger, there are less of them.. Some sprockets will get used more than others, but it then stands to reason that only some sprockets in the OP's cassette would be worn/skipping.
Perhaps unusually I have replaced a chain ring that was visibly worn and sucking, but not a cassette. Perhaps because I use cheapo cassettes that appear to be made of something rather harder than the chain rings, and perhaps because I went 10spd a couple of years back and had to replace the cassette anyway - not going anywhere near dura-ace cassettes/titanium sprockets!
I don't doubt that there comes a point where each part needs replacing, but I'm inclined to do it 'on-condition'. IMHO the need to do them together smells a little of something that had a grain of truth becoming a 'rule' perpetuated by folks with a vested interest in getting you to spend money rather than being based on solid necessity, like quite a lot of things in cycling
Absolutely agree with 'replace on condition': I don't advocate replacing the chain and the cassette together - generally I get through two chains before a cassette is so worn that a new chain causes problems.Also, while chain rings are larger, there are less of them.. Some sprockets will get used more than others, but it then stands to reason that only some sprockets in the OP's cassette would be worn/skipping.
Perhaps unusually I have replaced a chain ring that was visibly worn and sucking, but not a cassette. Perhaps because I use cheapo cassettes that appear to be made of something rather harder than the chain rings, and perhaps because I went 10spd a couple of years back and had to replace the cassette anyway - not going anywhere near dura-ace cassettes/titanium sprockets!
I don't doubt that there comes a point where each part needs replacing, but I'm inclined to do it 'on-condition'. IMHO the need to do them together smells a little of something that had a grain of truth becoming a 'rule' perpetuated by folks with a vested interest in getting you to spend money rather than being based on solid necessity, like quite a lot of things in cycling
The thing about replace on condition, though, is that you need to check the condition...I suspect that the 'rule' has its foundation in experiences like the OPs - keep a chain for too long and it will wear the cassette to the point where a new chain won't work well.
I also don't have issues swapping cassettes between bikes/chains - because all my 10-spd kit is kept in good order and none of my bikes has an especially worn chain.
Having said which, the chain on my Allez needs replacing, so when it comes off I'll compare its overall length with the new one.
upsidedownmark said:
Not convinced! With worn rollers you can force two adjacent rollers further apart, but under normal drive, they're all being displaced in the same direction, so there should be no difference in the pitch of the chain. The overall length of the chain is set by the dimension and number of the side plates. That cannot / does not change.
Obviously the links don't stretch, but the holes in the inner plates can wear as they pivot on the pin, thus the pins move apart.If you're going to buy a 105 cassette, might as well spend an extra £4.50 and get an Ultegra one:
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shimano/ultegr...
Fully compatible with 105 and 25% off at the moment. Use KBLAR at the checkout to get another £5 off too.
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shimano/ultegr...
Fully compatible with 105 and 25% off at the moment. Use KBLAR at the checkout to get another £5 off too.
ndg said:
Obviously the links don't stretch, but the holes in the inner plates can wear as they pivot on the pin, thus the pins move apart.
That is indeed a fair point. My understanding is that as most of the load bearing is done by the rollers, which run on the pins, that's where the wear occurs (primarily). Be interesting to see.My running average is 2 chains per year, cassette every other chain and chain rings every 3rd casette?
Thats running XT groupset on a MTB through 100mile/week commuting in all weathers and all terrain.
I've always used XT gears but I've varied the chain from HG73, HG93 to XTR7701 to Yumeya (only when they're on special offer). The Yumeya's TiN plating def works and I got a long life out of that one. The rest are similar so I'm on a HG93 again at the moment.
Thats running XT groupset on a MTB through 100mile/week commuting in all weathers and all terrain.
I've always used XT gears but I've varied the chain from HG73, HG93 to XTR7701 to Yumeya (only when they're on special offer). The Yumeya's TiN plating def works and I got a long life out of that one. The rest are similar so I'm on a HG93 again at the moment.
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